The Instigator
sillydebater
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
E.MacLeod
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Trump's policy to ban Muslims from the country can be enacted practically and effectively

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/14/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 334 times Debate No: 92729
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

sillydebater

Con

After hearing Donald Trump propose a ban on Muslims entering the US, I was perplexed as I couldn't fathom how such a policy could be implemented practically or effectively. I invite someone who believes it can to spell out how.

As my time for research is limited, I'm setting this debate up with the understanding that facts pointed out don't need to be referenced, but should pass the test of common sense. Either side is more than welcome to challenge any claims made and provide references for or against any point if they so choose.

Pro can either feel free to start into their argument right away, or can choose to simple introduce her/himself and then I will start with my argument.
E.MacLeod

Pro

My opponent tells us that he believes that Donald Trump's proposal to ban Muslims from entering the US is unlikely to be practically or effectively implemented.
I must argue, however, that I think that such a proposal is quite practicable, Muslim emigrants, or people with Muslim citizenship could simply be deprived of their freedom to travel into the United states without special permission from the US government, it is quite easy for the president of a country to just say that people from a certain other country are not allowed under any circumstances to enter into the country under his or her command.
I think that Donald Trump's proposal is also quite reasonable, since Muslims have been given a chance to enter the US and adapt to the American lifestyle, however, the Muslims did not want to (or their religion prevented them from) adapting to American lifestyle. Because of their religion, Muslims felt that they could (or should) mercilessly slaughter American citizens, even though they had been treated kindly. Muslims are a danger to the American society, exposing American citizens to situations that could cost them their lives, only because they do not want to adapt to US customs, traditions etc. The Muslims think that because the US citizens have made them feel at home that they can just somehow turn the US into the place they want it to be like, which is unfair to the citizens of the US.

I am sorry if I wandered away from the point, but I am not exactly sure what you found difficult to understand, perhaps you could be more specific and cut down the possibilities of debate to minor points?

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
sillydebater

Con

Pro is correct that I can't see how a proposal to ban Muslims from entering the US could ever be practically or effectively implemented, and I'm still no closer to believing it could be.

Being Muslim is not a nationality or a race, it's not something you wear or is declared in a passport, it's not something that you can see. Unlike Pro suggests, there's no such thing as "Muslim citizenship", just as there's no such thing as "Christian citizenship". Being Muslim is a belief, which resides solely in the mind of the person. A border official has no clue what the person in front of them believes, and although the official could ask, the person could very easily just lie.

Example:
Border official: "Are you Muslim"?
Person wanting to enter to country: "No"
Border official: "Um.. Okay then, you can come in"

Pro states that maybe the US could simply close its borders to all people from countries that have Islamic governments and that would work. There are two problems with this:

1) In those countries not all citizens are Muslim, so you would be banning not only Muslims, but Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and atheists/agnostics as well,

but the bigger problem is

2) Muslim people are living all around the world. There would be no way to stop Muslim believers coming in from England, Australia, Canada, South Africa, Germany, Russia, etc... Furthermore, there would be no way to stop the millions of Muslim Americans from entering the country, many of whom are the typical Caucasian or African Americans you would see walking around big-city or small-town America.

Because being Muslim is simply a belief, and not anything visible or inherent to a person, there is simply no practical way to enforce a ban on Muslims entering the country.
E.MacLeod

Pro

That was my slip up of words there, of course religion is not something declared in a passport, so there is no such thing as Muslim Citizenship.

So perhaps Donald Trump cannot ban all Muslims from entering into the United States of America, but he could certainly reduce the problem. For example, Donald trump could ban citizens of countries that contain the most Muslims, such as
Saudi Arabia, maybe not everybody in Saudi Arabia (for example) is a Muslim, and it may not be completely fair to simply ban people with Saudi Arabian citizenship from entering the US, but it would certainly help reduce the amount of Muslims entering the US.

However, Muslims are quite distinctive and stand out from other people in their actions, looks, and clothing etc. So Border officials could also prevent people with 'Muslim characteristics' from entering the country.

Donald Trump's policy might still work out though, because Muslims could easily be removed from the country once they were in the country itself, they don't necessarily have to be stopped at the borders. Think about people who are Christians, even nowadays they are persecuted and in the past the government of many countries have sought to kill all Christians in the country, obviously Donald Trump's proposal to only ban Muslims from the US, not to kill them could be carried out in the same way, Christians were easily enough tracked down back then, so Muslims are probably more likely to be tracked down nowadays and removed from the country. There may have to be officials and spies appointed to track down Muslims and remove them from America, but I think it could quite easily be done.
Debate Round No. 2
sillydebater

Con

We agree that banning all citizens from "countries that contain the most Muslims" would reduce the number of Muslims entering the US, but it would be completely ineffective at keeping Muslims from other countries out. So, that alone cannot be the solution. There's also the huge political fallout that would occur banning citizens from the large trading partner and ally that Saudi Arabia is, which would make such a move horrible on a diplomatic perspective.

Pro says "Muslims are quite distinctive and stand out from other people in their actions, looks, and clothing". Yet that is blatantly untrue. Here are some examples:

Muslims



http://rollingout.com...


http://www.gettyimages.ca...


Christians



http://www.timesofisrael.com...



http://www.asianews.it...

If a border guard were simply going on looks and clothing, then the guard would be much more inclined to let the two Muslim people shown above into the country than they would the two Christians. Again, being Muslim has nothing to do with dress or looks or actions. It is a belief, something held in the mind of a person, and there is no such as "Muslim characteristics" that can be used to prove someone is or is not a Muslim.

Pro's last paragraph chills me to the bone. The idea of sending officials and spies out among the populace to track down and remove American citizens from their own country based solely on their religion is very similar to how the Nazi Gestapo hunted down and removed Jews from their homes and forced them to leave. What Pro is proposing is creating the equivalent of the Nazi's Central Office for Jewish Emigration in the US, but this time for Muslims. Pro is correct, such horrific acts have been done throughout history to many different racial and religious groups. I simply cannot see how either the US Supreme Court nor the US people as a whole would ever allow such a thing to come to pass in present-day USA.
E.MacLeod

Pro

First I want to say, If Donald Trump wants to introduce a new law, he has the power to, and he will. Once Donald Trump gets an idea in his head, I'm sure he will do his utmost to put it into practise!!!

I also want to point out that the pictures you posted in your last argument was not exactly fair, I believe the pictures you posted of the Christians were of Roman Catholics and/or re enacted images of olden days, and if that is so, then I do not think that they would wear the clothing the whole time- Only during worship/spiritual rituals.
I'm going to counter your argument about the appearances of Muslims by posting my own images:

Muslims:
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Christians:
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So it was simply a case of carefully selecting our images to match our arguments. We can both agree, unless you think otherwise that both Christians and Muslims would probably only wear such clothing during worship services.

I am not altogether acquainted with the ways of the Muslim faith, all I know is that I sometimes see Muslim women in particular with a shawl covering their heads out in public, if it is an ordinary practise to do such a thing, then that almost completely blanks your argument about Muslims and their clothing.

You can read more about the Islamic clothing here: https://en.wikipedia.org...

So yes, It may be and certainly is to me a very chilling thing to think that officials and spies may be sent out to track down all Muslim people, but if that is what needs to be done, then that is what will be done.

And to close in on your point that it would be shocking to remove American citizens from their own country because of their religion, Well yes it would be shocking, but American citizens would probably not know about Islamic religion if it wasn't for Muslims entering the country from abroad and practicing their traditions in America.

I also want to say that removing mosques from America would be one way to lessen the load of Muslims in the country, and that the officials and spies I mentioned earlier on could easily find Muslims in such mosques while worshipping.


I am sorry that my debate here is a bit messy and full of different points, but hopefully you will be able to piece them together. I have not done many debates, so i'm still learning!

I will not be offended if you post another debate on the same subject, I probably wasn't the best opponent, but I tried!

Thank you for your time, it has been a pleasure debating with you. I have learnt many new debating skills during this debate, thanks once again.

Keep on debating!!!

Yours,
E. MacLeod
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by E.MacLeod 8 months ago
E.MacLeod
Your turn to debate :)
Posted by vi_spex 8 months ago
vi_spex
ban islam
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