The Instigator
nephilim
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
ReganFan
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

Truth - absolute determinism or relatively changeable through free will?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/15/2009 Category: Science
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,661 times Debate No: 9224
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (22)
Votes (3)

 

nephilim

Pro

The explanative definition of truth continues.

Determinism or chaos? Fate or random events?

I shall defend both which we appearantly don't yet have a word for. As we observe truth and take part in it all instances contain truth in it's core definition we ourselves define it by our thoughts and actions. If you are familiar with the dualism of man it might be understood as only by total and absolute observation of truth may it's definition be constant. Fate or determinism is favourably occuring within and without us (the entity) unchangeable and impossible to avoid. An always occuring fate can never change yet always does. Free will and truth explained such: The things that entity thought would occur might occur or not wheather entity chooses it to occur. However destined to know entity's choice to change future events it's ideas, past and present excludes the possibility of free will. Therefor a man of truth may presume the future determined by the past. Presume the following: Without a past in present a questioned isolated event occurs. The sense however is that there is no constant present as we can not observe present without changing it. Truth therefor can not exist without time and is only constant in its beginning and end if there is one. Further on: Presume one event would occur anyhow no matter what choices entity makes cause his choices are determined by his past. What would have happened if entity chosed absolute freely? This would make entity the beginning of time itself. As we find it possible to know truth constantly observing it while we change it the ideal of determinism is that if we did not observe truth it would have occured anyhow. This excludes the possibility of absolute observation? The expression "God is truth" and "God knows" refers to entity's lack of power to prevent fate or destiny. However able to think and choose differently though not over the same situation entity's powers to define future events isn't necessarily determined by the past only if entity has the ability to see the future before making a choice. Logically imposible to presume truth in it's core explanation defines probability as time with truth. In a way we change truth or it changes us. Truth is a definite void and comprehensibly estimate only through understanding time. Imagine knowing everything would entity then have free will?

I ask my adversary to explain why fate or determinism isn't the same as free will or chaos.

This theory may be understood as relative determinism.
ReganFan

Con

My fellow Americans, this is the 34th time I'll speak to you from the Oval Office, and the last. We've been together eight years now, and soon it'll be time for me to go. But before I do, I wanted to share some thoughts, some of which I have been saving for a long time.

It's been the honor of my life to be your President. So many of you have written the past few weeks to say thanks, but I could say as much to you. Nancy and I are grateful for the opportunity you gave us to serve.

One of the things about the Presidency is that you're always somewhat apart. You spend a lot of time going by too fast in a car someone else is driving, and seeing the people through tinted glass - the parents holding up a child, and the wave you saw too late and couldn't return. And so many times I wanted to stop, and reach out from behind the glass, and connect. Well, maybe I can do a little of that tonight.

People ask how I feel about leaving, and the fact is parting is "such sweet sorrow." The sweet part is California, and the ranch, and freedom. The sorrow? The goodbyes, of course, and leaving this beautiful place.

You know, down the hall and up the stairs from this office is the part of the White House where the President and his family live. There are a few favorite windows I have up there that I like to stand and look out of early in the morning. The view is over the grounds here to the Washington Monument, and then the Mall, and the Jefferson Memorial. But on mornings when the humidity is low, you can see past the Jefferson to the river, the Potomac, and the Virginia shore. Someone said that's the view Lincoln had when he saw the smoke rising from the battle of Bull Run. Well, I see more prosaic things: the grass on the banks, the morning traffic as people make their way to work, now and then a sailboat on the river. Reflections at a Window

I've been thinking a bit at that window. I've been reflecting on what the past eight years have meant, and mean. And the image that comes to mind like a refrain is a nautical one - a small story about a big ship, and a refugee, and a sailor.

It was back in the early Eighties, at the height of the boat people, and the sailor was hard at work on the carrier Midway, which was patrolling the South China Sea. The sailor, like most American servicemen, was young, smart and fiercely observant. The crew spied on the horizon a leaky little boat - and crammed inside were refugees from Indochina hoping to get to America. The Midway sent a small launch to bring them to the ship, and safety. As the refugees made their way through the choppy seas, one spied the sailor on deck, and stood up and called out to him. He yelled, "Hello, American sailor - Hello, Freedom Man."

A small moment with a big meaning, a moment the sailor, who wrote it in a letter, couldn't get out of his mind. And, when I saw it, neither could I.

Because that's what it has to - it was to be an American in the 1980's; We stood, again, for freedom. I know we always have but in the past few years the world - again, and in a way, we ourselves - rediscovered it.

It's been quite a journey this decade, and we held together through some stormy seas. And at the end, together, we are reaching our destination.

The fact is, from Grenada to the Washington and Moscow summits, from the recession of '81 to '82 to the expansion that began in late '82 and continues to this day, we've made a difference. Two Great Triumphs

The way I see it, there were two great triumphs, two things that I'm proudest of. One is the economic recovery, in which the people of America created - and filled - 19 million new jobs. The other is the recovery of our morale: America is respected again in the world, and looked to for leadership.

Something that happened to me a few years ago reflects some of this. It was back in 1981, and I was attending my first big economic summit, which was held that year in Canada. The meeting place rotates among the member countries. The opening meeting was a formal dinner for the heads of government of the seven industrialized nations. Well, I sat there like the new kid in school and listened, and it was all Francois this and Helmut that. They dropped titles and spoke to one another on a first-name basis. Well, at one point I sort of leaned in and said, "My name's Ron."

Well, in that same year, we began the actions we felt would ignite an economic comeback: cut taxes and regulation, started to cut spending. Soon the recovery began.

Two years later, another economic summit, with pretty much the same cast. At the big opening meeting, we all got together, and all of a sudden just for a moment I saw that everyone was just sitting there looking at me. And then one of them broke the silence. "Tell us about the American miracle," he said.

Well, back in 1980, when I was running for President, it was all so different. Some pundits said our programs would result in catastrophe. Our views on foreign affairs would cause war, our plans for the economy would cause inflation to soar and bring about economic collapse. I even remember one highly respected economist saying, back in 1982, that "The engines of economic growth have shut down here and they're likely to stay that way for years to come."

Well, he - and the other "opinion leaders" - were wrong. The fact is, what they called "radical" was really "right"; what they called "dangerous" was just "desperately needed." 'The Great Communicator'

And in all that time I won a nickname - "The Great Communicator." But I never thought it was my style or the words I used that made a difference - it was the content. I wasn't a great communicator, but I communicated great things, and they didn't spring full bloom from my brow, they came from the heart of a great nation - from our experience, our wisdom, and our belief in the principles that have guided us for two centuries.

They called it the Reagan Revolution, and I'll accept that, but for me it always seemed more like the Great Rediscovery: a rediscovery of our values and our common sense.

Common sense told us that when you put a big tax on something, the people will produce less of it. So we cut the people's tax rates, and the people produced more than ever before. The economy bloomed like a plant that had been cut back and could now grow quicker and stronger. Our economic program brought about the longest peacetime expansion in our history: real family income up, the poverty rate down, entrepreneurship booming and an explosion in research and new technology. We're exporting more now than ever because American industry became more competitive, and at the same time we summoned the national will to knock down protectionist walls abroad instead of erecting them at home.

Common sense also told us that to preserve the peace we'd have to become strong again after years of weakness and confusion. So we rebuilt our defenses - and this New Year we toasted the new peacefulness around the globe. Not only have the superpowers actually begun to reduce their stockpiles of nuclear weapons - and hope for even more progress is bright - but the regional conflicts that rack the globe are also beginning to cease. The Persian Gulf is no longer a war zone, the Soviets are leaving Afghanistan, the Vietnamese are preparing to pull out of Cambodia and an American-mediated accord will soon send 50,000 Cuban troops home from Angola. 'We Changed a World'

The lesson of all this was, of course, that because we're a great nation, our challenges seem complex. It will always be this way. But as long as we remember our first principles and believe in ourselves, the future will always be ours.

And something else we learned: once you begin a great movement, there's no telling where it'll end. We meant to change a nation, and instead, we changed a world.

And so, goodbye.

God bless you. And God bless the United States of America.

Vote for whoever sounded the least high
Debate Round No. 1
nephilim

Pro

nephilim forfeited this round.
ReganFan

Con

Just as i suspected, default vote to Con!
Debate Round No. 2
nephilim

Pro

nephilim forfeited this round.
ReganFan

Con

It would appear my suspicions were right and pro forfeited.

It's Morning in America, vote con!
Debate Round No. 3
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by alto2osu 8 years ago
alto2osu
*Snort*...vote bombing...
Posted by RoyLatham 8 years ago
RoyLatham
No arguments made by either side, but Pro at least made an opening statement.
Posted by Puck 8 years ago
Puck
One vote =/= bombing. Your argument doesn't address the resolution, how exactly are you expecting to get votes other than cursory conduct/grammar ones, which given the content of your round, is questionable whether you should garner any way?
Posted by alto2osu 8 years ago
alto2osu
Voting on a debate such as this sends a bad message to its participants.
Posted by nephilim 8 years ago
nephilim
Which clearly means Reagan is more true than me.
Posted by ilovgoogle 8 years ago
ilovgoogle
@Cerebral_Narcissit Pro has BoP and since he didn't put forth anything, by default Con wins.
Posted by ReganFan 8 years ago
ReganFan
My conduct was clearly better seeing as I didn't forfeit repeatedly.
Posted by Cerebral_Narcissist 8 years ago
Cerebral_Narcissist
An inane ramble vs. pointless idiocy... how can anyone judge?
Posted by ReganFan 8 years ago
ReganFan
I suspect he is gonna forfeit so i just posted Ronald Reagan's Farewell Address as a filler.
Posted by alto2osu 8 years ago
alto2osu
Whatev. It's all one when it comes to these debates, anyway.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 8 years ago
RoyLatham
nephilimReganFanTied
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Vote Placed by atheistman 8 years ago
atheistman
nephilimReganFanTied
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Vote Placed by ilovgoogle 8 years ago
ilovgoogle
nephilimReganFanTied
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Total points awarded:03