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Tupac: Best Rapper of All Time?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/12/2015 Category: Music
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,046 times Debate No: 73317
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
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I believe Tupac Shakur was and still is the best rapper. Whether he's dead or alive.

1. Do not forfeit or troll
2. Offer actual evidence
3. Critique but try not to criticize
4. Round One = Acceptance and State Main Thesis
5. Round Two & Three Incorporate your best opinionated rapper ever plus offer whatever you feel is relevant

Best = Inspiring, meaningful music.


I present to you the case that Dwane Michael Carter Jr. (aka Lil Wayne) is, in fact, the greatest rapper of all time.
Debate Round No. 1


If you stand among your opinion, and this is not a troll. Then let's begin! I will begin by telling you why Lil' Wayne shouldn't even be mentioned on any good rapper list.

Although Lil' Wayne was pretty good in his early ages, as our society advanced becoming more aware of rap music, he quickly reached his peak. If you can't tell, Lil' Wayne came very versatile as society's demand for new music had risen. At the time, Lil' Wayne went mainstream and hit media strong. Younger kids and teens had found his music appealing. And not because of the meaningful concept behind it all, but because of his appearance. He preached that being a gangster wannabe was cool. Just like Eminem or Bobby Shmurda, he added sick beats and horrible rhymes and preached of the illuminati, pimping women, guns, violence, etc. In my opinion, Lil' Wayne is a disgrace to actual rappers like; Logic, Big KRIT, Isaiah Rashad, etc. They rap about actual problems and their troubles going through life. Unlike Lil' Wayne, they try and put their all, yet they still don't make as much money as him. And this isn't because Lil' Wayne's music is good, but because his music is catchy. Lil' Wayne doesn't put effort into good, lyrical music anymore...he's simply trash.

Now, you can't tell me Lil' Wayne is better than Tupac. The comparison is so insulting! Tupac came from the bottom up and made meaningful music. I know you're probably going to say, "Well Pac had some very bad influencing songs." Yes, you're right, but unlike Lil' Wayne, Tupac made a change. He preached about what was wrong with the world and critiqued it. No one can say that about Lil' Wayne. For crying out loud, Tupac was murdered because of material he was going to release. Even today, Pac is banking money like he's still alive. His music was not only inspirational to adults, but children growing up in situations related to Pac's.


I think the first thing we need to establish here is a clear distinction between a rapper's personality and/or moral views and their performance as a professional artist in the genre. Almost the entire argument from Pro attacks the character of Dwayne Michael Carter Jr. while only about 10% actually addresses his career under the alias of Lil Wayne. This is not a debate over which rapper is the best person but rather which is the best rapper.

In Round 1, Pro defines 'best rapper' as the one with the most inspiring, meaningful music. Yet, in Round 2, they never once bring up a single lyrics form either Tupac Shakur or Lil Wayne. They also state as rules that actual evidence must be used and the aim is to critique but not to criticize yet all I see in their debate are unsubstantiated insults lobbed at Mr. Carter for no other motive than spite and/or hatred.

I am now going to highlight some points they raised about Lil Wayne as a rapper and explain why he is not only the best rapper of all time but Tupac Shakur doesn't come close.

She states that Lil Wayne makes being a 'wannabe gangster' seem cool. Aside from the fact that both Tupac and Wayne were real gangsters prior to their career[1][2], it is actually true to say that Wayne has been through more. He lost his virginity at 11 to a girl of the age of 13[3]. He didn't assault her in any way whatsoever, in fact it was she who was the aggressor. Having had a childhood full of sex and drugs, it's no wonder the guy primarily rapped only about those 2 things. It is all he has ever known and he has had no opportunity to live a life without either of the two. Tupac Shakur, on the other hand, grew up in a slightly different situation to Lil Wayne. He moved around far more and unlike Wayne was never pushed into rap but chose to do it. Wayne's father was his manager and all he ever knew was 'son you're gonna be a rapper.' so he had far more pressure to become one no matter what he truly wanted to be deep within. Wayne learned the hard way that in life you can't be a deep, sentimental character; you have to be tough and make it financially because that's all that matters in the end. Whether this mentality is right or wrong he never had the opportunity to think differently. Tupac, on the other hand, could have become anything but chose to become a rapper. Sure, he was the first rapper to be slightly feminist and all that other jazz but Wayne being feminist would have got him bullied at home and by home I don't just mean his friends I mean his family itself. His entire family were wealthy people who breathed cash, they didn't have time for their son to be some sentimental guru type artist, they wanted a money-making machine and that was what he was forced to become.

When you begin to analyze the personas of Lil Wayne and Tupac Shakur what you actually find is two people who only had drugs and skin color in common. They were raised very differently and one had far more pressure and lack of choice in what they wanted to become than the other. It's easy to be a nice person when you had all the freedom in the world.

Now I'm going to analyze the lyrical flow and content of Wayne and compare it to Tupac.

In all of Tupac's songs there is barely any singing as he was far too arrogant to do a collab and the closest thing to singing he had was his own voice which wasn't that great. What you find is that all his songs are spiteful and filled with vengeance or anger at men. Now, when a kid never knew his father and grew up poor and lost:

"I see no changes. All I see is racist faces.
Misplaced hate makes disgrace to races we under.
I wonder what it takes to make this one better place...
let's erase the wasted."

"I ain't a killer but don't push me
Revenge is like the sweetest joy next to getting p***y
Picture paragraphs unloaded, wise words being quoted
Peeped the weakness in the rap game and sewed it."

When you actually look at the lyrics what you find is subtle propaganda to become vigilantes for a cause not really made clear. Tupac is a vengeful soul filled with rage at the world and wanted others to feel it.

Now, before I show you Lil Wayne's lyrics I would like to say something. Lil Wayne, Drake and Snoop Dogg are possibly the only rappers to barely ever reference murder in their songs at all. They never once say 'killing' and never even metaphorically state they will kill either the 'beat' or another rival in the rap game. Lil Wayne sometimes speaks a little about sexual domination of opponents and aggressive violence but it's usually in a very blatant metaphorical sense and almost just to show off his ability to use metaphors.

Lil Wayne is also the only rapper to never have a genuinely angry song of any kind. Whenever he raps about vengeance and/or disgust at the government or humanity it's much more to do with sorrow and empathy than anger or destruction. He teaches people not to fight back or fight for a cause but rather to make do with what you've got and preach ideas rather than kill those with opposing ones.

He also has a far greater range of content than Tupac, or than any other rapper in the rap game at all. Lil Wayne is the only rapper to have a rap representing almost every single emotion and is also one of the few who do both heavily deep songs and shallow ego-ride songs.

With metaphors as intense as

"Everybody wanna tell me what I need
You can play a role in my life but not the lead
If there's food for thought then I'm guilty of greed
Mama said take what you want – I took heed yea"

"Back to life, back to reality
Been eating my girl and she's so sweet, got cavities
Granted we do it for vanity not humanity
But what's appealing to me is under banana trees, love"

"I see the blood in your eyes
I see the love in disguise
I see the pain hidden in your pride
I see you're not satisfied
And I don't see nobody else
I see myself I'm looking at the...

[Bruno Mars:]
Mirror on the wall ([Wayne:] Ooh), here we are again ([Wayne:] Yeah)
Through my rise and fall ([Wayne:] Uh)
You've been my only friend ([Wayne:] Yeah)
You told me that they can understand the man I am
So why are we here talkin' to each other again?" [7]

To as incredibly flowing, albeit egotistic, as:

"I can f**k the squares now do that mean I’m out of shape
yes I talk s***, got to defecate to conversate
weezy f**k the world, yup I f**k it till it ovulate,
get her to the crib get in that p***y and just dominate
Weezy F baby and the F is for a "fornicate" [8]

Overall, while Lil Wayne discusses getting rich and sexually dominating, he never encourages actual rape nor murder as such. Other rappers are far more aggressive often towards Lil Wayne himself accusing him of nonsense such as the Illuminati which has not even been proven to exist for centuries since its original creation which had nothing to do with the music industry.

I conclude that while Lil Wayne is not preaching murder or anything severely aggressive, almost all other rappers, including Tupac, waste their talent on encouraging violent approaches to situations. Lil Wayne does not stay passive, however, and is more than happy to rub his ego in the face of his 'haters' as he calls them has never once made a diss track despite many having been made toward him. He is the Gandhi of the Rap Game and I love the guy no homo. ;)

Debate Round No. 2


Okay, first of all, totally forgot about the rules. Sorry, I get a little too into the moment at times and other times I will confuse different rules. I apologize for my negligence, and thank you for telling me. Please excuse any misspelled grammar! I am really tired and don't want to go over the whole thing again! If you have any questions, comment it.

Anyway, if you didn't know or forgot, there is a round three, so don't think I wasn't going to not reference quotes or lyrics from their songs. ;) Now, I slightly disagree on the personality and professionalism and genre, etc. Whatever you said. Now, I was in fact sharing my opinion on both his personality and...I guess stage appearance? Whatever you'd like to call it. Okay, please excuse my preferred debating style, but I think your debate statements are so frustrating. You are making accusations that are based on how you perceive my statements. What you call criticism, I call critiquing. And you make it seem as if I absolutely hate Lil' Wayne. You stated, "...unsubstantiated insults lobbed at Mr. Carter for no other motive than spite and/or hatred." No other motive? It's a debate! I personally don't like Lil' Wayne, but I'm not hating on him for no reason!

Back to the subject, I feel do believe you saying Tupac comes nothing close to Lil' Wayne is such a hyperbola! I mean, come on! And if Lil' Wayne didn't want to become a rapper or had more pressure put on this specific career, why hasn't he already resigned? Plus, you are acting like you know Lil' Wayne or as you like to say, Dwayne Michael Carter Jr. Bruh, you are making it seem like they are two completely different person with different egos, etc.

You state several different times that most rappers, including Pac promote violence. They grew up into these situations! The way they grow up, where they grow up reflects their ego and mentality. And like you had stated before, Lil' Wayne promotes drugs and sex. Well, he also promotes; being extremely rich, the best there is, etc. Now, one of the songs you had used as an example was the Bill Gates one. If you didn't carefully analyze it, it does in fact have metaphors and clear lines stating he will murder you. Also, in Love Me he says, "F*ck with me and get bodied", stating, if you mess with him, he will kill you. Unless of course you're going to make another contradiction.

Also too, you can't say Drake and Lil' Wayne are some of the few best MCs that are actually good. They have no bars. Lil' Wayne can't rap! You might argue his raps are good and creative, but his "ingenious creativity" is what makes him bad. It probably every song he has made, there is going to be something completely unnecessary or stupid. Like in 6 Foot 7 Foot, one of the lines was, "Real G's move in silence like lasing". Also, you argue that Lil' Wayne has very rarely made any mad toned songs. Lil' Wayne has very little to no expression in his voice when he raps. He sounds the same in every one of his raps. And if you don't understand what I am talking about, I'm talking about the, idgaf mentality.

The Tupac songs you listed were so diverse! Changes is about the actual issues that minorities were encountering. Of course it was a hard subject to act on. He was furious about what was happening. Hail Mary does have that hook, but if you haven't heard the whole thing, actually analyze it. It's a mixture of actual problems and extra elements that also talk about alcohol, killing, etc. But as you said before, Lil' Wayne raps about sex and drugs (excluding other stuff not mentioned by CON), Tupac raps about politics, real world problems, his environment, teen issues, death, sex, violence, etc. And please to not argue about propaganda! Every rapper uses propaganda to promote their reality and past experiencing.

In Tupac's, Brenda's Got A Baby, the whole time he tells a story about a young girl facing hard times and later ends up getting screwed over. In Dear Mama, he doesn't sound angry! Same with; Life Goes On, Ghetto Gospel, Unconditional Love, Thugz Mansion, etc. The way you perceive Pac's figure is a rapper who mostly promotes violence, killing, sex, etc. Plus what does singing have to do with anything? It's not the best singer. Plus, in some songs he does use his vocals. But anyway, not many rappers can sing, including Lil' Wayne. Take Kanye as an example, he can't sing but he decided to use auto tune. It all depends on what the artist prefers.

I honestly don't think you have opened yourself up to different kind of rappers and focus more on the more notorious ones. To say Tupac is horrible and not coming close to Lil' Wayne is such BS. I think you think Tupac is too cliché to listen to. That's probably why you quoted his most notorious songs. Take NWA for example, you probably think they are horrible as well because they promote violence. Well, they experienced the bad parts of life and back then things were hard. They struggled with the law and cops, poverty, etc. They are by far one of the best rap groups ever. But you? You listen to mainstream, except Snoop. That was the only decent rapper you listen. Drakes good, but he's still mediocre.

I conclude, Lil' Wayne could've made something of himself, although he comes no where close to Tupac, he maybe couldn't made the top 20 rappers. Lil' Wayne only raps about how arrogant he is when he always had money like CON had stated. And being "the best" rapper wasn't his choice. Plus, his flow is mad good along with his lyrics and intent. Not to mention, he has no actual life experiences or real problems to preach, so he recycles the concept of getting women, money, gangs, drugs, Satan, violence, etc.

I would link website that I just copied and pasted info from but...I didn't have any. And if you or anyone wants to look up more about rappers intent in lyrics, go to:


Pro is not using any facts and is merely using aggression as their basis of victory (which is bad conduct).

Lil Wayne chose to stay as a rapper because his dad walked out on his life. That's actually why he changed the Dwayne to Wayne, to signify that his dad is out of his life for good. His dad used to beat him too.

His dad pushed him into it then ran away with all his money so Wayne had to help his mother. Now Wayne is a father of two who is responsibly earning a living from rap. It's not his fault you have to rap about drugs and sex, that's just what the industry demands. Notice that any rapper who doesn't in some way rap about sex and drugs is not that famous or successful in comparison with Lil Wayne.

As I said, Tupac is either depressed or angry, but he's never any other emotion. You gave examples of his sad songs but that doesn't disprove what I said. Wayne has a range of songs but even when he's angry he doesn't directly mention killing as such, it's usually just a slight line at most but he never encourages it whereas Tupac often mentions such hatred of those in power that he'd kill them.

Lil Wayne has extremely expressive vocals, unlike what Pro says. Please listen to the videos I posted to understand just how expressive his voice can be. Ranging from the serious to the happy, party-like tone to the sad.

Lil Wayne has very political raps, as seen in President Carter (first video) and God Bless Amerika (fourth video). It's just that , unlike Tupac, he has a huge range and not just one niche of topic to rap. He isn't a party-only rapper like Snoop Dogg and Wiz Khalifa, isn't an ego-only rapper like Eminem and Tech N9ne and isn't a politics only rapper like Tupac.

Lil Wayne has raps about anything and everything and kills most of them (admittedly he mucks up sometimes and has his poor raps).

Tupac doesn't do collabs because he's arrogant, Lil Wayne has a huge variety of collabs and is often humble enough to be the one who says less in the song while being the richer of the two in the song and having the power to demand being the main artist if he wanted to.

In conclusion, Lil Wayne's the best rapper, Tupac isn't anywhere near.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by 8elB6U5THIqaSm5QhiNLVnRJA 3 years ago
How am I trolling?
Posted by Creativist 3 years ago
It's okay, CON trolls on other debates.
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