The Instigator
Bruinshockeyfan
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
KingHenrikLundqvist
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Tuukka rask will become a better goalie than henrik lundqvist

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
KingHenrikLundqvist
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/3/2013 Category: Sports
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,713 times Debate No: 37328
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (13)
Votes (1)

 

Bruinshockeyfan

Pro

First round acceptance only.
KingHenrikLundqvist

Con

I accept this very funny debate
Debate Round No. 1
Bruinshockeyfan

Pro

Let me just start off by asking, has lundqvist ever gone to a stanley cup game? NO! Tuukka already won a cup as the secondary goalie and led his team to the cup game his first year as a full time starter. Hes only 26. Lundqvist is 31. Tuukka is younger yet still done better in a smaller amount of time. Lundqvist is a good goalie with expirince but based on the stats and age tuukka will be better. Henrick is also past his prime. Tuukka hasnt even started his! If tuukka is this good of a goalie now this is a huge indicator he will be better. He has done more in a two year period. The stats say it all.
KingHenrikLundqvist

Con

First off, I would like to point out that Tuukka Rask has never won a Stanley Cup in net. He was merely a back up. Tuukka has never won anything in net. Did Tuukka Rask win the Stanley Cup in his first year though? No, he is like the rest of the goaltenders that season, Stanley Cup-less. Surely Henrik is older but lets look at Henrik's first six seasons since Tuukka has only played six. Statistically no, Tuukka will not become a better goal tender then Henrik Lundqvist. He was trusted to start from his beginning in his organization because Henrik was proven to be great in his pre-NHL career where he won two gold medals with Frolunda HC in the EHL.

1st Season, Henrik in 2005-06 played 53 games where he won 30 and lost 12 with 9 Overtime loses, he also had two shutouts. He gained the playoffs on his own work. He also won the gold medal in the olympics on his own work during his rookie year in the NHL.

1st Season where Tuukka wasn't even trusted to start because of his lack luster pre-NHL career, Tuukka in 2007-08 played 4 games where he won 2 and lost 1 with 1 Overtime loses, he also had no shutouts. Pretty lackluster start right?

2nd Season, Henrik in 2006-07 played 70 games where he won 37 and lost 22 with 8 Overtime loses, he also had five shutouts. He improved by winning 7 more games and gaining 3 more shutouts. Even though he had 10 more loses, in the grand scheme of things he played more then the last season. He gained the playoffs on his own work.

2nd Season where Tuukka wasn't even trusted to start due to his horrible first season, Tuukka in 2008-09 played ONE game where he won 1 and lost none with 0 Overtime loses, he also had one shutout. It took Tuukka TWO seasons to get a shutout where Henrik had two in his FIRST season

3rd Season, Henrik in 2007-08 played 72 games where he won 37 and lost 24 with 10 Overtime loses, he also had ten shutouts. Playing two more games he maintained 37 wins but losing two more games. But he had 10 shutouts where as last season he only had five. He gained the playoffs with his own work.

3rd Season, Tuukka in 2009-10 played 45 games where he won 22 and lost 12 with 5 Overtime loses, he also had 5 shutouts.

4th Season, Henrik in 2008-09 played 70 games where he won 38 and lost 25 with 7 Overtime loses, he also had four shutouts. The 2008-09 season had little change but he cut down on overtime loses and added an extra win. He gained the playoffs with his own work. He also was an NHL All-Star.

4th Season, Tuukka in 2010-11 played 29 games where he won 11 and lost 14 with 2 Overtime loses, he also had two shutouts.

5th Season, Henrik in 2009-10 played 68 games where he won 35 and lost 25 with 10 Overtime loses, he also had four shutouts. This year was somewhat of a sloppy year. He did not gain the playoffs due to a shootout lose in the last game. Due to the Olympics, there was no All-Star game.

5th Season, Tuukka in 2011-12 played 23 games where he won 11 and lost 8 with 3 Overtime loses, he also had 3 shutouts.

6th Season, Henrik in 2010-11 played 68 games where he won 36 and lost 27 with 5 Overtime loses, he also had eleven shutouts. This year was a big improvement where he had cut down on Overtime loses and he had a career high of shutouts of 11. He gained the playoffs due to his own work. He also was an NHL All-Star for the second straight time.

6th Season, Tuukka in 2012-13 played 36 games where he won 19 and lost 10 with 5 Overtime loses, he also had 5 shutouts. Where he got to the Stanley cup but LOST.

As you can see Tuukka Rask took awhile to get to somewhere near his prime whereas Henrik Lundqvist was in his prime at 26 (Which Tuukka is currently 26) and he was in his prime at the start and still is. Henrik was nominated three times in his first 6 season, where Tuukka hasn't. As you can see Tuukka is slowly progressing while Henrik is still vastly progressing and by the next 5 seasons he will have at least 2 Stanley Cups while Tuukka for the rest of his career will be trying to reach atleast 30 wins a season.

SOURCES:
1 (Henrik Lundqvist). http://www.hockeydb.com...
2 (Tuukka Rask). http://www.hockeydb.com...
Debate Round No. 2
Bruinshockeyfan

Pro

I understand he was the backup. He was still part of the team. His name is on the cup and he was on the roster, even though his job may have not been as big as it is now he still did his part. This debate isnt about who was better in the past, but in the FUTUER. Tuukka may have not been as good then but hes a young player and this season will be his secound year starting. When most great hockey players, or most athlets, started they started with small roles and eventually got better and became amazing at their sport. This is tuukkas first starting season and he did real well. He had 5 shutouts. Lundqvist only had 2. (I got this on my NHL gamecenter app). According to the boston herald, he is one of the top goaltenders in the NHL. (My ipad wont let me copy and paste so i apologize that i cant put links to my scorces). Like i said before. Hes just starting off and hasnt reached his prime, yet hes just as good, maybe better, than lundqvist. Different people reach their primes at different times. Henrik may have done better earlier but based on the stats now rask will be better. Also, the early stats from rask where when he played minor league. Lundqvist was already officially in the NHL. That is why he didnt play as much or do as well. Same with petr mrazek from the red wings. He was their secondary goalie but also the started for the Grand Rapids griffens, detroits farm team. He is like how tuukka was. He has only played a few NHL games but is doing well for his minor league team. Soon he will be detroits secondary goalie and work his way up. Just like rask and other great players.
KingHenrikLundqvist

Con

Of course the "BOSTON Herald" would say that a home team goaltender is one of the best. But for the season of 2012-13, was Tuukka Rask a finalist for the Vezina Trophy? No, but Henrik Lundqvist was[1]. If it wasn't for the Boston Bruin's good defense, Tuukka Rask would be torn apart in net. Henrik Lundqvist on the other hand is proven that even when the defense isn't playing so well, he will still play well in net.

You keep bring up the point how Tuukka Rask will become better, but you have no proof for the argument except your team allegiance to the Boston Bruins.

[1]http://www.nhl.com...
Debate Round No. 3
Bruinshockeyfan

Pro

Here. Tuukka is the best ranked European goalie for the 2005 draft. http://en.wikipedia.org...



Yes the bruins have good D, but part of that is tuukka. He has done a good job in net this season, a big reason why the bruins made it to the stanley cup game. I understand they didnt win but henrik lundqvist hasnt even played in a stanley cup game. Henrik was lucky that he improved a lot at a young age. I've said already tuukka isnt at his prime yet. I have also sated it takes time for them to slowly work their way to the top. Tuukkas got real skill and potential now so we still have to see what he has to bring. Henrick hasnt been getting drastically better over the years. Tuukka has. And to point out for tuukkas 6th season you put 2012-13 and henriks you put 2010-11. Either you got it mixed up or i didnt read it right.
KingHenrikLundqvist

Con

Surely Tuukka was the best rank goaltender in Europe for the 2005 Draft, but was he the best overall? No. The worse part is that he was drafted first round and he came up short so many years. Unlike Henrik who was drafted in Round seven, 205th overall in the 2000 draft[1]. When Henrik played his rookie season he astonished many by winning more then 30 as I have mentioned above. My opponent states that "Henrik hasn't been getting drastically better over the years" And from the stats I have posted above clearly show an increase in performance while Tuukka Rask has never made any real improvement. Tuukka's first starting season was 40% of a real season, I guarantee that if Tuukka Rask were to play a full 82 game season, he wouldn't perform well because he would be easily worn out due to not enough experience with a full time starting position.

I don't think my opponent has read my debate pieces, if he did he would realize that the reason why I ended Henrik's stats at 2010-11 was because that was his 6th season and the reason why I stopped at 2012-13 for Tuukka was because that was Tuukka's 6th season. I wanted to display the drastic improvement Henrik has done as a rookie starting goaltender to a regular/veteran goaltender while Tuukka's was slow and unimpressive due to a proven unreliable skill set he has.

Voting Issues:
1. Opponent does not bring any sources to the debate
2. Many misspelling
3. Not much stats used to prove his case

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 4
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by KingHenrikLundqvist 3 years ago
KingHenrikLundqvist
Surely he was on the team when they won it, but does he mean he won it personally with his skills? No
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
Your first paragraph in round2. Sad that you've already forgotten your own case.
Posted by KingHenrikLundqvist 3 years ago
KingHenrikLundqvist
Ragnar, nope I never claimed that.
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
I admit I tend to call people by whatever is in their picture...

I don't understand enough about the players to accurately compare them, plus I'm not sure how jocks are compared when different ages (do we line up what they did at the same ages, or do we take them as they currently are?); I probably would have tried if there was a smaller character limit for this debate (limited time away from schoolwork).

Pro: Separate your points into separate paragraphs. Perhaps add headings to the areas of information. Also the comment section is by DDO rule not measured by voters, there's no assurance we will even glance in at it.
Con: Did you actually claim only certain people on a team get the award? (skimmed the debate)
Posted by Bruinshockeyfan 3 years ago
Bruinshockeyfan
Oh. Good to know. Still. Pay attention. Your like the 12th person whos done this. Its annoying.
Posted by KingHenrikLundqvist 3 years ago
KingHenrikLundqvist
Its a habit, I haven't debated a female on this site so.
Posted by Bruinshockeyfan 3 years ago
Bruinshockeyfan
Why do people keep calling me a he cause i have the word hockey and bruins in my username? Geez.
Posted by KingHenrikLundqvist 3 years ago
KingHenrikLundqvist
Nope, should have posted it in the debate rounds :P Plus the comment section isn't apart of the debate.
Posted by Bruinshockeyfan 3 years ago
Bruinshockeyfan
I just said i started the debate, therefore it counts.
Posted by KingHenrikLundqvist 3 years ago
KingHenrikLundqvist
It has to be in the debate not in the comments so it doesn't count.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bsh1 3 years ago
bsh1
BruinshockeyfanKingHenrikLundqvistTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con more thorough/persuasive