The Instigator
Pro (for)
0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
10 Points

US Dollar is not only just a paper - All values given to it are imaginations that are failing

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/4/2012 Category: Economics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,549 times Debate No: 26898
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)




We all know that S$ has no intrinsic value. It is just a paper.

But what is in question is whether it has any real value or are we imagining that it has value even when the perceptible value also started to lose its usefulness to quantification.

As long as we dont quantify everything on earth into $ value, then this value the dollar has got is only perceived or imagined value that too relative value to each one's perception - and that too is falling when

1) Recession type of situation where the House values which were considered as asset plummet -but we imagine the $ value works in the same way before

2)When I cant put $ value for the friend's help when nobody else was willing to help me at that time.when I was drowning in the deep sea any amount of $ would not save me; but still we work towards getting more $

3)When I cant put a $ value to mother's unflinching love even after chidren's insults to her, how can I say dollar is the means to things.

4) When the billions of dollars that Banks and Federal put in to create employment fails massively for long periods.

5)When Trillion of dollars spent on Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq -still the problems are not solved - i hate to give any value on the dollars spent.

6)When we are prepared to spend any $ to avert a Sandy, it anyway comes without our control then I dont want to value the $ we have with any respect.

7)When Billion$ each fails to give us any clarity on the next President's action plan on presidential campaigns I cant value the Billion dolaras as Billion dollars.Those are just wasted papers.

8)When my relative is prepared to spend any $ amount to save his ailing father - but Doctors said they could do nothing more and he is slowly dieing - Why do we put the dollars into any value at all in this case?

9)I want to know what will happen after death - answers are all confusing and contradictory - Which $ will give me all-accepted answer-pl I can give a value to that.

10)What denomination of $ will prevent me from ageing please tell me I will certainly consider a value in multiples for that.

Therefore I dont want to value the $ any more than useless scrap of paper - but which can be used for some (not all as we discussed before) transactional purposes until an alternative is found out.

If $ has past-current-future value please tell me how many people who got large wealth have their total investments sitting in the form of $ in their accounts.

I invite some one take up the Con act so that atleast we create a $ less debate to prove that $ doesnt have a value in but thats beneficial to the Society.



I feel my opponent has entered into the philosophical notion of paper currency, as opposed to, global economic value of the $. This value is implied, speculated, hedged, and analyzed both fundamentally and technically.

It was created as a means to protect one another, centuries past we would pay royal guards to protect our land and home from thieves. It then began to evolve into a unit that could be measured according to the resources of the owner (nation), and emerged along with globalization as a means of trade.

Do foreign currency markets expose and leave smaller countries vulnerable to market inefficiencies? Absolutely, yet foreign trade is only possible because of the implied value of money. But the condition on which it is useful is strictly within a structured society, if anarchy or zombies were to assume control the value of money would cease to exist. It would be nothing more than paper, however, coin carries value and always will.

Older coins increase in value despite currency value, that is the value of four 1952 Canadian quarters will not move simultaneously with the current value of the CAD$.

The only feasible alternative to paper currency is credit, this is a more divisive area, is the global reliance on credit ultimately positive? A greater debate would be the evolution towards a dependancy on credit valued assets (MBS, CDS) opposed to liquid, tangible assets and it's overall effect on the globe.
Debate Round No. 1


Thanks to Con to have accepted and placed his arguments. I appreciate his valuable argts about economic value & the way we are implying,speculating & hedging currency and making one currency compete with another in open market to determine the forex value,etc.

By all this he accepted the first part of the resolution we are debating:
1) US Dollar is just a paper 2) All values given to it are imaginations adjusted by various activities he mentioned.

The above 2 are taught to economic students for many years.

Just because we accepted some theories and are doing according to the theories for generations doesnt mean it is the correct way.
The emphasis of the debate is on "These implied imaginations (accepted theories in operation for long and we tried to do permutations and combinations within the scope of the accepted theory to perfect and move forward) failed to go into established fully accepted state yet but are instead failing" considering the points I mentioned and hundreds more points come to my mind but for brevity we stick with them for now.

The world tried to resolve the problems as mentioned by CON of protecting one another, protecting assets, globalization of trade and commodites and many more by creating Currencies and debt instrucments etc. thinking these will resolve the problems.

We all know in logic, the statement "All crows are Black" will be defeated the moment one sees another coloured crow.

$ is taught to us as a " medium of exchange; unit of account; store of value; and a std of defr payment. "This is the black statement"

In recession so many colured crows we saw, and no black crows at all:

Currency not only failed to protect assets or atleast asset value but in Countries it cant protect itself as store of value as we are seeing.

Also the function of the dollar that of trade or medium of exchange also is failing in recession as the tangible properties are not being cashed up for years.

Cons mentioned that $ was created as a unit of measurement to protect our houses from thieves. Mortgagee auctions and other property grabs have just replaced thieves & are creating an easy means to take away assets. So $ has not only failed to protect but it revolted and went to hands of self-interests.

So a useless paper is used to make people's beloved homes useless in the name of failed economic theory fundamentals.

Con's initiation to credit valued asset evolution debate itself an evidence that tangible but useless $'s imagined value is failing its purpose.

Also custodians of $ , the Banks
" conceivably themselves become promoters & encourage others in unwise schemes by promises of assistance does not justify us in assigning to bank currency the causal influence which really belongs to the employment of the productive energies of a country in useless or unwisely planned enterprises." Ref: and wars.

So $ is now controlled by inept self-interested guards- We just leave $ to them being scraps and switch to something else.


As mentioned in the first statement by my opponent "We all know that money has no intrinsic value..." while this does fit with the standard definition of intrinsic value, that is: the underlying value of a particular asset", this statement does not take into account the financial definition.

"The actual value of a company or an asset based on an underlying perception of its true value including all aspects of the business (nation), in terms of both tangible and intangible factors."

Now under this premise we can see that money does indeed have an intrinsic value and carries a higher significance than simply paper. It is, however, true that all value given to money is perceived or implied, a point mentioned by my opponent. Money is and will only hold value in a structured society, a point I will touch on later.

The 2008 credit crisis in itself was an immensely broad series of conflicts, brought on by poor monetary policy in the form of systematic financial deregulation. But in such nations as Canada, their economy has remained generally unscathed as they have refused to lessen their level regulations on their financial industry, highlighting the efficiency of $ when managed responsibly. Perhaps a global adoption of Canadian financial policies would solve any future crises?

To touch on my point of money within society, Economists would agree that principally $ fulfills three requirements:

1) A medium of exchange: A universal method to purchase and sell goods, the absence of $ would create a barter system in which we would need tangible goods that satisfy the demand of the individual owning the product we wish to purchase.

2) A store of value: Despite recent occurrences $ has and will remain a highly valuable, highly liquid commodity. An individual can own a valuable work of art, worth millions, yet he can only receive an amount a buyer is willing to pay.

3) A unit of account: This feature is fairly self explanatory, CAD$20 is worth the same amount all over Canada. Globally the purchasing power parity does differ, highlighting another example of the complexity of this system.

Though few will argue that Western monetary policy within the last 30 years has generally failed, it is certainly not an indication to abandon $. Our world has been built around this item, the conversion to some other asset would subject nations to extreme volatility. This is why I challenge my opponent to propose a solution to this perceived problem, it is not a simple challenge and is almost assuredly impossible. Yet to criticize without being guilty of hypocrisy one must conceptualize an alternative.
Debate Round No. 2
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by natarajan.subramanian 3 years ago
Let us Wake up to the realty

The decades of selfish protection of currency by all deceits and the US control over other countries & their economies, are over. Now US currency is truly exposed. Unless, in our mind we start afresh imagining everything so far was on fictitious ground, even the Gold Standard that worked on the scarcity of metal,etc., we cant come out of this mess. This is truly connected world, the Governments can't hide anything. Moving forward is to embrace Newest technologies, that don't create another set of monopoly for US or another Country over rest of the world. After all, US wants freedom for humanity, not just for US alone.
Posted by natarajan.subramanian 3 years ago
What could happen if just people leave my caution to the end and think the world is as usual. Things have happened quite dramatically and we should understand the world upside down now during a teaching lesson given by recession. Please miss the point we could land here:

I thank for people either you vote for Pro or con - Please don't just see a debate here - it is not - it could happen any day - Whether you vote for con or pro the choice is yours.

I understand people want to view the alternatives before deciding whether the dollar is failing or not. Whether people understand or not - it is happening right in front of us. Instead of normal fears associated with this kind of thing, I take you to a road of safe-play, to think from the top as bird's eye-view to understand and alter the flight direction easily. Only if you can understand without any inhibition that dollar is paper and values are imaginations, you can go to the next state that of the alternatives. Then it will be play not fear.
Posted by Grantmac18 3 years ago
I would like to thank natarajan.subramanian for the debate, my very first on this site, I do feel the issue was enormously complex and not feasible. That said I'm very intrigued to hear about these alternatives, I do agree that monetary policy certainly in the US and the Euro zone have failed, but there are nations that are able to effectively manage their economies, I hope I was able to effectively point that out. I do have to point out a misconception, the action of printing money by the Federal Reserve is a legitimate and successful manner to devalue a nation's currency. Which is usually done to encourage foreign investment as their currency will be cheaper and thus more attractive, quite obviously as is the case with finance, if not done properly domestic currency can be destroyed. Finance is a complex area that I've been studying academically for 6 years now and portions of it are still overwhelming. Pro is right we need to be more vigilant, however the Fed in more industrialized nations will not make simple mistakes such as hyperinflation etc. Congress and their actions are truly frightening, particularly the 112th congress holding debates on whether to raise the US debt ceiling, this is something that should never have occurred. Quite frankly, far too many congressmen did not understand the difference between debt ceiling and debt, they certainly did not understand the economic ramifications of "holding it hostage" in the words of Mitch McConnell. But I'm beginning to was a pleasure to take part in this debate thank you Pro.
Posted by natarajan.subramanian 3 years ago
Thanks to con for his 2nd round arguments. In my opinion Con has mostly agreed in a round about way about the resolution and just reiterated the functions of money to sum up differently. From his arguments we find that he agreed but he wants not to leave a vacuum although money has failed. He thinks relaxation of State control in regulations on the financial industry was the reason for the financial crisis, while I believe it is the standard behavior of $ in a recessionary market that has not been tested like this for decades.Now the test is proving it so fickle. Whatever con has mentioned about relaxation could be an add on . About Cons apprehensions about the vacuum, we have viable alternatives already tested for different purposes. As that is not the point of discussion here I am not dwelling on that. That is left for another debate. I sincerely believe all values given to $ is imaginations that are fast failing and seek your votes. The methodology adopted by Federal to Print money to get out of the financial problem is to be laughed over. The more I read from outside the Economic bloc about the intentions of China, etc., its concealed intentions about dumping $ for Renminbi - or Gold - it is so disturbring. This is high time to understand what Federal is doing and where we will end all of a sudden when $ is stripped of its world's currency status. But I am sure there are alternatives to come out of this with double success, and I will come to that once the voting period is over.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: The resolution is not clear, because it's not clear what Pro means by "intrinsic value." Gold won't cure diseases, avert storms, or save you if you are lost at sea; so does gold have intrinsic value? When the Spanish discovered large amounts of gold in the Americas, the value of old dropped significantly. Value comes from the ability to trade the item for what you happen to need. Dollars work for that. Con argued a little more clearly than Pro; he was getting at the idea of value being the ability to trade for needs. Organize the debate with a few major contentions that are supported by arguments. Don't use symbols like "$" instead of writing out "dollar." (or "&" etc.) Always run the spell checker, both sides had lots of errors.
Vote Placed by DeeZeeQuinn 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Hands down.