The Instigator
Pro (for)
9 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

Ukraine(pro) vs Turkmenistan(con)

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Post Voting Period
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after 3 votes the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/3/2015 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 759 times Debate No: 74700
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)




This is a war debate directed to Kylar. Tell me what country you will represent, and tell me why I should choose you to be my opponent; give me a very good reason as to why you want to do this debate and why you would be a worthy opponent. I am (Ukraine). Comment if you are interested. If you want to debate, message me.

If you are a member of the Art of War (AOW) debate group [created by @The-Voice-of-Truth], then you must vote on this debate. If you are a member of AOW and accept this debate, then state your win/loss ratio.

If you are interested in joining AOW, message @TheRussian or @The-Voice-of-Truth. The primary prerequisite to join this group is: you have to have participated in AT LEAST ONE war debate. If you are a member of AOW, you must vote on other members' war debates unless a valid reason is given. You can challenge other members to debates related to war game scenarios.

There is a Moderator who will ensure that this debate follows the below rules. For this debate, the Moderator will be whoever asks first and is an AOW member.

There are some strict rules that apply. Voters must penalize any violation of the rules.

1. When you accept the debate, state your country, and state the numbers of your armed forces (aircraft, men, ships, etc.). Use this source for military numbers ONLY, as it is the most reliable:;

2. Each country's turn can range from about 3 days to 60 days long, so all actions must be in accordance with this time period. (DO NOT try to win in one turn! Take into account that your opponent is also a living, thinking being that can adapt to a situation.)

3. Morale is a key factor in your armed forces' effectiveness.

4. You may produce more military forces (soldiers, ships, aircraft, tanks/humvees/cavalry), but it depends on your military budget, your country's population, and how industrialized your nation is.

5. You may choose to invade or defend.

6. The defender makes the first move.

7. The defender's primary military objective is to remove the attacker's forces from the defender's territory. The attacker's primary military objective is to annex the other country, or destroy it (physically, economically, etc). Secondary military objectives can be made by the debaters if they wish. Fulfillment of the military objectives is victory. If either side fails to fulfill their set objectives, the voters are free to reasonably determine the winner based off of who was more successful in completing their objectives.

8. If a nation's capital is destroyed/liberated, this does not necessarily mean that the war is won; the capital could be recaptured. If one of the debaters destroys or controls the administration of the opposing country, OR if the opposing country is destroyed to the point of no administration, then that debater is immediately guaranteed a 7-point victory.

9. Every aspect of the war must be realistic and must remain within the parameters established by the rules and the title. Any unrealistic action and actions deviating from the rules will cause the entire action to be void. Any further deviation after the first void action will result in a complete debate forfeiture.

10. Weapons of mass destruction are NOT allowed. A WMD is defined as:

-Radiological weapon or a radiological dispersion device: any weapon designed to spread radioactive material

-Nuclear or Thermonuclear weapon: an explosive device that derives its destructive force from nuclear reactions

-Chemical weapon: a device that inflicts chemicals designed to harm or kill humans/animals

-Biological weapon: the use of biological toxins or infectious organisms to inflict damage.

Non-conventional detonation of conventional weapons IS allowed.

11. No allies (NATO, UN, Muslim Brotherhood, or otherwise) under ANY circumstances. Annexation of other countries or agreements that allow formations of larger nations and/or direct military intervention is NOT allowed. Personnel and forces CANNOT be supplied by other nations.

You CAN have military or diplomatic agreements and/or treaties with other nations (agreements not to interfere etc). Radical groups, militant organizations, paramilitary factions et cetera are NOT allowed.

Religion is NOT a factor. No economic sanctions from any other nation, but economic warfare is allowed.

You cannot increase your country"s population, nor can you use ANY method to allow the involvement of other countries other than what is specified. You cannot receive donations or economic support from private agencies.

12. Cyberwarfare is allowed. Electronic warfare is limited to radar/radio jamming and interception; NO EMPs.

13. The country chosen must be one of the 206 sovereign states recognized by the United Nations as of 2015. Former states such as the USSR are not accepted, nor are territory-controlling factions not officially recognized by the United Nations, such as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, currently the Islamic State), and Gaza Strip, controlled by Hamas, but recognized by the UN as a part of Palestine. You cannot choose my nation.

14. Appropriate conduct MUST be maintained: no insults, cursing, profanity, vulgar language or trolling. Any violation of appropriate conduct WILL BE REPORTED to DDO authorities.

15. If you fail to follow the rules once, you will be given a warning and your actions in that round will be void. Further disobedience of ANY of these rules WILL result in an immediate loss of the debate.

16. The Instigator is Pro.

17. These debates are strictly Force versus Force; no civilian action is allowed unless Total War is declared.

18. TOTAL WAR can be declared only as an absolute last resort. Total war is defined as the complete mobilization of all available manpower of the country. In a state of total war, every able citizen either joins the military personnel or the military labor workforce.

19. All scenarios MUST be realistic; there MUST be an established reason for conflict.

20. We may either follow the date-time storyline format, or state the events that occur directly as realistically possible in a period of 45 days.

21. This is a Category 2 AOW debate. A category 2 debate DO NOT allow the usage of WMDs. Category 1 debates allow WMDs.


I accept and thank my friend for this debate. Turkmenistan gladly accepts :)
Debate Round No. 1


OK the defender makes the first move and I assume you will be defending. You should also state your forces in the first round. Since you were respectful in the last debate we had, I won't cheap shot you.

Total Population: 44,291,413
available manpower: 22,244,394
fit for service: 15,686,055
Reaching military age annually: 418,313
active front line personnel: 160,000
active reserve personnel: 1,000,000

Tanks: 2,809
AFVs: 8,217
SPGs: 1,302
Towed artillery:1,669
MLRS: 625

Total aircraft: 222
Fighters/interceptors: 35
Fixed wing aircraft: 61
Transport aircraft: 82
Trainer aircraft: 41
Helicopters: 90
attack helicopters: 34

Total Naval strength: 25
Frigates: 1
Corvettes: 3
mine warfare: 1
coastal defense craft: 1

Production: 100,000 bbl/day
consumption: 625,000 bbl/day
proven reserves: 395,000,000 bbl

labor force: 22,170,000
merchant marine strength: 134
major ports and terminals: 6
roadway converge: 169,495
railway: 21,658
serviceable airports: 187

Defense budget: $4,880,000,000
external debt: $138,300,000,000
reserves of foreign exchange and gold: $21,950,000,000
purchasing power parity: $337,400,000,000

Square land area: 603,550 km
coastline: 2,782 km
shared border: 5,581 km
waterways: 2,150 km

Let the WAR BEGIN!!!!!!

I will state the cause of the war.

May 11 The epic diplomat known as Mr. Almighty (I'll make this a crossover from my Serbia vs Croatia) has taken the job of being a diplomat for Ukraine for now. He will decide with Ukrainian government officials are about to turn this day into a national holiday since America has successfully eradicated the pro Russian rebels. This caused around a decline of 100,000 to the population with people going to Russia or being killed, but finally order is being restored. Things seemed to be looking up for Ukraine. Or so they THOUGHT!

May 14 Mr. Almighty went on a plane heading for Kazakhstan to negotiate a treaty. Not trusting Russia they sign a few simple agreements with Georgia and Azerbaijan to let them bring a squadron of planes to accompany them for security. Those countries get 2.5 million each for the trip to Kazakhstan. They give word to Kazakhstan about this for their ships not to fire at theirs. While flying over the Caspian Sea they decide to go more towards the south of Kazakhstan to avoid Russia from attacking them. All is going well until the ships begin to fire at the planes. They begin to take evasive maneuvers while radioing Kazakhstan making sure none of their ships are attacking. They confirm whoever is firing on them is not them. They quickly land at the nearest airport in Kazakhstan shaken up. They were planning on doing something different, but instead they sign an agreement for almost 1 million giving those on the Ukrainian planes protection and whatever they need until the country responsible was found.

May 18 Soon people demand who tried to attack the Ukrainian planes. At first many blame Russia, but satellite footage at that time showed that all Russian ships in the Caspian sea were at port at that time. Azerbaijan is ruled off along with Iran since they would be notified by Azerbaijan would have known if they were there. Leaving the prime suspect as Turkmenistan.

May 20 Turkmenistan begins mobilization.

May 23 Seeing this Ukraine begins their own mobilization.

May 24 An ultimatum is sent to Turkmenistan to stop its mobilization and an apology or face war.

May 25 Turkmenistan ignoring this ultimatum leads Ukraine to declare war.

May 26 Turkmenistan declares war back and thus began the Ukrainian-Turkmenistan war.

May 30 Ukraine won't have access to it's fleet since this will be in the Caspian Sea, so they begin mass producing Oplot-M tanks. Also Ukrainian the more modern aircraft are also mass produced. To be ready to attack Turkmenistan they sign an agreement with Azerbaijan worth nearly 100 million to have there soldiers there. Once the Turkmenistan fleet is dealt with they will attack from somewhere else.

Your turn for defensive preparations. I will not attack until round 3.
-Mr. Almighty


I thank my friend for what should prove to be an exciting debate and a learning expierience.
Going beyond military equipment totals and perceived fighting strength is the actual manpower that drives a given military. Wars of attrition favor those with more.

Total Population: 5,171,943
Available Manpower: 2,768,005
Fit for Service: 2,252,187
Reaching Military Age Annually: 106,817]
Active Frontline Personnel: 22,000
Active Reserve Personnel: 35,000

Tank value includes Main Battle Tanks, light tanks and tank destroyers, either wheeled or tracked. AFV value includes Armored Personnel Carriers (APCs) and Infantry Fighting Vehicles (IFVs).

Tanks: 712
Armored Fighting Vehicles (AFVs): 1,941
Self-Propelled Guns (SPGs): 68
Towed-Artillery: 269
Multiple-Launch Rocket Systems (MLRSs): 110

Includes both fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft from all branches of service.

Total Aircraft: 72
Fighters/Interceptors: 24
Fixed-Wing Attack Aircraft: 44
Transport Aircraft: 18
Trainer Aircraft: 0
Helicopters: 25
Attack Helicopters: 10

Aircraft Carrier value includes dedicated "helicopter carrier" vessels. Total naval strength includes all known auxiliaries as well.

Total Naval Strength: 4
Aircraft Carriers: 0
Frigates: 0
Destroyers: 0
Corvettes: 0
Submarines: 0
Coastal Defense Craft: 4
Mine Warfare: 0

Despite the advances made in battlefield technology, oil remains the lifeblood of any fighting force as well as local economy.

Oil Production: 245,000 bbl/day
Oil Consumption: 145,000 bbl/day]
Proven Oil Reserves: 600,000,000 bbl/day

War is as much a battle of logistics - moving man and machine from points all over - as it is direct combat. Labor Force reflects possible wartime industry strength.

Labor Force: 2,500,000
Merchant Marine Strength: 11]
Major Ports and Terminals: 1
Roadway Coverage: 58,592
Railway Coverage: 2,980
Serviceable Airports: 26

Regardless of military strength in numbers, war is still driven by financing as much as any one leader or weapon.

Defense Budget: $200,000,000
External Debt: $428,900,000,000
Reserves of Foreign Exchange and Gold: $22,350,000,000
Purchasing Power Parity: $55,160,000,000

Geographical values primarily figure into a defensive-minded war (i.e. invasion).

Square Land Area: 488,100 km
Coastline: 1,768 km
Shared Border: 4,158 km
Waterways: 1,300 km

Now on with the war:
May 31st: Turkmenistan begins to deploy tanks to its borders, readying for war. The president offically declares, "Ukraine is an enemy of the state."
June 1st: Turkmenistan's navy moves into position.
June 4th: Turkmenistan army marches towards Ukraine.
June 7th: Shots fired by Turkmenistan troops in Odessa

Thanks for the debate, your turn :)
Debate Round No. 2


You know I'm attacking right? You're defending you know?
Nevertheless, onward!

June 13 An embargo is on placed on Turkmenistan from Ukraine. The Ukrainian airforce is ready to engage the enemy. To help them Ukraine begins a cyber attack to western Turkmenistan. Since Turkmenistan cyber warfare capabilities are much less than Ukraine's it is not that difficult. They jam radar and communications for Turkmenistan. They send Ukrainian planes meant for attacking to attack the fleet and any Turkmenistan aircraft. Without radar the fight is one sided. They want some kind of control of the Caspian so soldiers paratroop into what seems like the least defended coastal defense craft.

This is known as the battle for the Caspian Sea.
Losses: Turkmenistan
Navy: 3 coastal defense crafts destroyed
Aircraft: 5 fixed wing, 2 fighter,interceptor
casualties: 64 dead
Captured: 1 damaged coastal defense craft and 13 soldiers

Losses: Ukraine
Aircraft: 3 fixed wing, 1 interceptor
Casualties: 3 dead 1 wounded

June 15 News of this victory reaches Ukraine and Turkmenistan by now. Morale in Ukraine rises while in Turkmenistan morale sinks(no pun intended). At Azerbaijan, the Ukrainians stationed there begin repairing it for battle. Luckily most of the damage should be repaired by June 30 along with a few Ukrainian improvements. They will use this ship to prevent merchant ships from Turkmenistan going out or in. They know it won't be easy to keep only one ship from holding a blockade, but it will at least hurt it's exports and imports. Also it can be used to help transport a few soldiers and help bombard the coastline.

June 26 The ship Ukraine has captured is finishing repairs and slight improvements. The ship is named The Sikorsky, after Igor Sikorsky a famous Ukrainian engineer. Ukraine plans Operation Infiltration. They will land Bekdash then split in two. One will their way around Garabogazkol Aylagy to take out any enemies there. The other will go south and will meet at Turkmenbashi a major port city. The Sikorsky will also help bombard the city.

June 30 Operation Infiltration begins. They come in under the cover of night and have soldiers paratroop out of the planes into Bekdash encountering little resistance. They don't have any tanks initially, but they know they must win some victories. They quickly find and try to clear an area suitable for a plane to land. Now that artillery and tanks will be coming it should result in doing better in combat.

July 9 With around 20,000 soldiers along with anti-air systems, tanks, other artillery, aircraft ready to come at a minute's notice and around 1 months worth of supplies before running out they split up and go.

July 20 They are close to Turkmenbashi. They have had a few minor skirmishes, but since they invaded at an not very populated part of Turkmenistan there are few forces there. Once again combined they attack Turkmenbashi. The Ukrainian army and air support comes in and along with The Sikorsky attack. Surprised at this attack the soldiers there desperately defend there hopeless position.

July 21 Ukraine has conquered the city with these casualties.
Soldiers: 3,758
tanks: 49 destroyed or captured
AFVs: 128
SPG: 4
towed artillery: 17
Aircraft: 7

Soldiers: 1,789
tanks: 12
AFVs: 35
SPG: 1
towed artillery: 7
Aircraft: 2
Their position is reinforced in case of counter attack. Any ships heading to or from Turkmenistan will be ordered to turn back by the Sikorsky or be destroyed. They issue this warning to all countries in the Caspian Sea.


I thank my friend again for an enjoyable debate and something that has been a learning expierience for me in future war debates.

July 22nd
Turkmenistan's government in exile vows to "defend its nation and attack to save its nation from invasion by the imperialists."

July 23rd
Turkmenistan millitary force of 20,000 men begins assault to retake Turkmenbashi and suffer casualties.
Soldiers: 1,200
Tanks: 12 destroyed
Self-propelled guns: 3 destroyed

July 25th
With fighting still raging outside Turkmenbashi, 4,000 Turkmen troops storm and seize Debaltseve Ukraine and begin a march towards Mariupol.

July 27th
Turkmen troops overrun half of Turkmenbashi, seizing half the city with casualties:
Soldiers: 2,000
Tanks: 21 destroyed.

Thanks for the debate so far
Debate Round No. 3


Why does your arguments only state one side of the casualties which if I'm correct are only Turkmenistan. Can you state Ukrainian casualties?
Some music I think is appropriate for this situation.

July 4 While American celebrant independence day Ukraine decides they must stop Turkmenistan soldiers before they reach Mariupol. By satelite at it shows there are only 4,000 soldiers. Ukraine acts quickly and places 10,000 of its soldiers outside the city along with a small minefield. Initial the fighting is fierce, but it ends swiftly. The Turkmenistan soldiers are defeated and are forced to retreat.
The defense Of Ukraine
Casualties: 945
Tanks: 7

Casualties: 1,926

July 5 To stop them from retreating back to Debaltseve, 10,000 Ukrainian still in Ukraine recaptures the city and moves to get ready to attack the Turkmenistan. In the mean time, the Ukrainian not killed or wounded at the Defense of Ukraine pursue them. They are at the outskirts of Donetsk when they are attacked. There was no hope for the Turkmenistan soldiers there.
The battle of Donetsk

casualties: 587

casualties: 1,952
captured: 122

July 10 The remaining Turkmenistan soldiers in Ukraine have been mopped up while Ukraine received little casualties in comparison.

July 15 They see the Ukrainian soldiers need help before they are beaten when Turkmenistan gets reinforcements. They get all there transport planes accompanied with fighter aircraft to be guarded. The planes will either land or paratroop the supplies or soldiers.

July 20 The Ukrainian soldiers now have there numbers back to 20,000. They then begin a counter attack. With air support they are able to win a major victory.
casualties: 3,572
tanks: 12
SPG: 5
mobile artillery: 7
aircraft: 4
casualties: 10,576
tanks: 15
SPG: 5
mobile artillery: 8

July 23 Unwilling to let the enemy escape, the Ukrainian forces attack in pursuit. Along with that, Ukraine launches another cyber attack on the helpless Turkmenistan cyberspace which effectively cripples anything with power besides a flashlight or something like that. The internet is disabled also along with factories. The Ukrainian forces fight a fierce battle which is named the battle of Balkanabat since that city was close by.

Casualties: 4,782
tanks: 34
AFVs: 86
Artillery: 16
aircraft: 14

tanks: 123
AFVs: 246
Artillery: 26
Aircraft: 21

July 29 Ukraine then moves on and capture Serdar with limited casualties. Baharly is also bombed by aircraft. in the process of all this Ukraine gets a steady stream of reinforcements and other supplies

August 12 Ukrainian forces are now back up to 20,000 again. After a series of dogfights, the Turkmenistan air force if in bad shape while the Ukrainian airforce is still strong. Located at Gokdepe, they are close to the capital of Turkmenistan. While Turkmenistan may have numbers, Ukraine has quality and more tanks, AFVs, etc. located outside the city. Along with that Turkmenistan cyber space is crippled and Ukraine still has a strong airforce. Soldiers lay a mine field to their east and North to prevent Turkmenistan from attacking without receiving costly casualties. There is a trench line to protect soldiers from direct fire in case Turkmenistan attacks them. They will also receive a steady stream of reinforcements from supply planes.

Now you have 4 choices.
1. Let your capital fall along with your government.
2. Position you army to try to defend it.
3. Attack my army.
4. Look for peace.
5. Retreat your government officials away from the capital where my forces will inevitably follow.

Tanks for the debate so far!(pun intended)


I thank my good friend for this good debate.
Now then...
August 13th
Turkmenistan's government in exile pushes millitary to launch offensive to defend capital.
August 15th
Turkmenistan's army surrounds the capital to defend it from Ukraine
August 16th
Fierce fighting breaks out with heavy casualties
Ukraine: 1,200
Turkmenistan: 900
August 17th
A ceasefire is signed to allow time for medical care to be provided
August 20th
The ceasefire is breached by Ukraine, as 6 soldiers of Turkmenistan are killed.
August 21st
2,500 Turkmenistan troops storm Shkyirone and wrestle it from Ukraine in a sneak attack.
August 22nd
Elated by their victory, Turkmenistan air force bomb Ukraine positions and force them from the capital city but sustain heavy losses.
Casualties: Ukraine: 3000 killed, 2000 wounded, 150 taken prisoner
21 tanks captured
32 planes captured

Turkmenistan: 4000 killed, 1000 wounded, 120 taken prisoner.
2 tanks captured.

Thanks for the debate so far :), my friend.
Debate Round No. 4


Um I wasn't going to attack the capital just yet. I was going to await for reinforcements. You are making moves for me that I was going to wait for round 5 unless you attacked my army which would be difficult since most Turkmenistan technology is outdated compared to Ukrainian. I still had a strong air force unlike yours. Plus if you did attack, you were crippled by a cyber attack and radar and communications were being jammed. Also how did you capture all those tank and aircraft while none were destroyed and Ukraine only got 2 tanks and no aircraft? If you defended, I wasn't going to attack. That is why I said position your army to defend it in choice 2. It pains me to do it, but we all have to learn. August 16-August 20 void. August 21-22 void. Truly I'm sorry, but I had to keep it realistic.

Onward! Choose wisely for the final music, it might be good or bad. To make this more of a choose wisely situation, choose only one of them to hear it and see what the other one was after this war game is done. Trust me, choose wisely.

August 25 Shkyirone is recaptured by Ukraine with 4,000 soldiers with air support. The entire Turkmenistan army there is destroyed while Ukraine receives less than half the casualties

August 30 The Ukrainian army attack the city now reinforced with 25,000 soldiers. They are outnumbered, but Ukraine has quality and radar along with a functioning cyberspace. The battle is fierce with these losses on both sides.

Ukraine Turkmenistan
Casualties: 20,000; 35,000
Tanks: 350; 500
afvs: 500; 800
SPG: 15; 25
Towed artillery: 50; 100
MLRS: 10; 15
Aircraft: 15; 30

September 3 Ukrainian holding Ashgabat await reinforcements. They send infiltrator to attempt to find the government administration of Turkmenistan.

September 10 Ukrainian numbers are up to 10,000 and they go on the offensive again. The army moves to capture Yashlyk while the airforce attacks Erbent.

September 20 By this time Ukraine has captured tejen Miana, Mary, Yoloten,and Bayramaly. They have also recieved an enough reinforcements to brint their numbers up to 17,500. They are getting close to capture all of southern Turkmenistan including the Zeid reservoir.

September 25 By this point, all of Turkmenistan has been conquered besides those to the very north that are closest to Ukbekistan. They have seen no traces of the missing gvernment officials so the get ready to attack the north. With most of the Turkmenistan army destroyed they expect little resistance. They announce this message through all of Turkmenistan made by the epic diplomat Mr. Almighty.
1. Turkmenistan will surrender.
2. Ukraine will recieve Bekdash and an area of radius of 100 km around it that Turkmenistan owns.
3. Turkmenistan officials will come out of hiding unarmed and must swear they will do any agressions to Ukraine anymore. If they refuse they must resign or be killed.
4. Ukraine will assist in fixing Turkmenistan cyberspace only to the exent of where it was before.
5. (optional)Ukraine will recieve Turkmenbashi, in return they will give Turkmenistan 2.5 billion. (Pretty useful since most of your country was devasted).

You may accept or deny this. If you deny this around 20,000 soldiers will attack your devastated army with air support and superior quality.



My final music is a simple piece that I will post here.

Thank you for a wonderful debate.
September 27th
Turkmenistan, caught in a precarious position, agrees to surrender. A grand millitary parade is sent before Ukraine and the commanders shake hands, and flags are laid down.

I want to thank my friend for another good war debate I am learning a lot.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Russia_The_almighty 2 years ago
Posted by Kylar 2 years ago
The first music and I accepted the entire treaty. This was a really awesome debate!
Posted by Russia_The_almighty 2 years ago
Good debate! Just a question, did you accept the optional part of the treaty and which of the music did you initially choose in the music I posted?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Lexus 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: con surrenders
Vote Placed by tejretics 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Decisive Ukrainian victory.
Vote Placed by The-Voice-of-Truth 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Surrender by Con, which translates into a concession.