The Instigator
dynamicduodebaters
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
bookwyrm
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Ultimate Debate #4: Baseball is a Better Sport than Football

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
bookwyrm
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/20/2014 Category: Sports
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,575 times Debate No: 61961
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (19)
Votes (1)

 

dynamicduodebaters

Pro

Ultimate debate 1: http://www.debate.org......

Ultimate debate 2: http://www.debate.org......

Ultimate debate 3: http://www.debate.org...

If you wish to debate, say so in comments, message me or comment on my profile. Also, should there be any, ask any questions in those three places about this debate.

I will be debating this, though: "Ultimate Debate #4: Baseball is a Better Sport than Football"

I will be Pro.

Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Arguments (max 3)
Round 3: Arguments (max 3)
Round 4: Arguments (max 3)
Round 5: Rebuttals. You may NOT write rebuttals in any other round than the fifth. You can only argue against what I said in the arguments round, not my rebuttal round, so that we both have a fair chance. You may NOT bring up any new points in round 5.

NO SWEARING OR RACIAL SLURS!

Any breach of these rules or forfeiting result in all 7 points going to me. Thank you.

*****IMPORTANT*****

THE DEFINITIONS:

Baseball: "A game played with a bat and ball by two opposing teams of...players, each team playing alternately in the field and at bat, the players at bat having to run a course of four bases laid out in a diamond pattern in order to score." (http://www.thefreedictionary.com...)

Football: "a game in which two opposing teams of 11 players each defend goals at opposite ends of a field having goal posts at each end, with points being scored chiefly by carrying the ball across the opponent's goal line and by place-kicking or drop-kicking the ball over the crossbar between the opponent's goal posts."
(http://dictionary.reference.com...)

NO SEMANTICS! But other trolling is allowed.

Thanks,
DDD
bookwyrm

Con

Thank you for the challenge. Good luck, and I look forward to a good, fair debate.
Debate Round No. 1
dynamicduodebaters

Pro

(INTRODUCTION)

Thanks for accepting. I do hope this will be fun and enjoyable. Well, I might as well start.


(ARGUMENTS)


(1)


Football is, by nature, a physical game. The point of the defence is to physically tackle/prevent the other team’s offense. That sounds all great, but imagine how many injuries come from this! I will present some facts from major league football leagues:


“ A new study by researchers at the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine links long-term brain damage to subconcussive hits in football, meaning hits that don't even cause concussions. This is by no means a revelatory finding, but it is interesting in its method, and its potential implications.

The study examined 67 players during the 2011 season and found from blood tests that the 40 players who sustained the hardest hits had unusually high levels of an antibody that is connected to brain damage.

When they scanned the brains of those players, they found damage that was predicted by the antibody:

"This positive correlation could be an early indicator of a pathological process that, with time, could perturb players' brain health," says Nicola Marchi, a professor of molecular medicine at the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine, who co-authored the study with Lerner colleague Damir Janigro and Rochester's Jeffrey Bazarian. "All football players have repeated subconcussive hits-throughout the game, the season, and their careers," he says, but without external symptoms of injury, the hits were hard to measure. The blood tests appear to offer an early warning system."

It seems like the real gains to be made here are at the amateur levels, where the training staffs and doctors don't possess the same level of expertise as those working for the NFL. Perhaps these blood tests can complement on-field concussion tests and other evaluations of brain trauma.” {1}


So, brain trauma and other symptoms, including the concussions, of which 75% males {2} playing football will get concussions. That is ridiculous! But in baseball, that never happens, because it is a non-violent sport.

Want to see just how violent football is? This is less of the head injuries but more of the other body limb injury:

(2)

Let’s say you a rabid fan of baseball, and you are a rabid fan of football. Wouldn’t it be better to be a fan of baseball because it is simply a longer game? I mean a whole 9 inninnings VS only 4 quarters of football. Look:


“The NFL’s popularity is all the more remarkable when you inspect the fare it has to offer each week on television. An average professional football game lasts 3 hours and 12 minutes, but if you tally up the time when the ball is actually in play, the action amounts to a mere 11 minutes.” {3}

So only 11 minutes of play?

Baseball is around 2 hours without commercials. Bam. That’s right. Two hours of what you love compared to 11 minutes. While it may not be such a good thing of a sport going on forever, it also sucks when you only get 11 MINUTES OF PLAY. I mean, You could get more fun from watching two monkeys wrestle. Plus it would probably last longer. There truly is no point in wasting 3 hours of your time for 11 minutes of action in 10 second bursts.

Anyways, on to the next point!


(3)

“Recorded instances of baseball played outside North America came in 1874, when a party comprising members of the Boston and Philadelphia clubs toured England both playing cricket and demonstrating baseball. A further tour, by the Chicago club with the addition of various All-Stars in the winter of 1888–89, took the game to Hawaii, Australia, New Zealand and the South Pacific islands. Returning via Europe and North Africa they played more demonstration games, including one in front of The Sphinx in Egypt.” {4}

Baseball is a much more appealing sport to international people. In the International Federation of American Football there are a mere 68 members,{5} compared to the 124 International Baseball Federation members {6}. While yes, the two sports are generally associated with the US and Canada, Baseball is more appealing to a worldwide market because it is quite similar to other sports, like cricket and tennis.


(CONCLUSION)

In conclusion I believe I have proven my point for now.


Thanks,

DDD

(REFERENCES)


{1} http://www.sbnation.com...


{2} http://www.concussiontreatment.com...


{3} http://qz.com...


(4)

http://en.wikipedia.org...


(5)

http://en.wikipedia.org...


(6)

http://en.wikipedia.org...
bookwyrm

Con

Baseball consists of 9 players standing around most of the time. The only time the field team gets any action is when the ball comes toward them. The team at bat is literally sitting out most of their half of the inning. The only time a player even gets to play is when they are at bat or standing on a base. In fact, 90% of the game is spent standing around, adding up to about 18 minutes of actual action. (1) The almost 18-minute average includes balls in play, runner advancement attempts on stolen bases, wild pitches, pitches (balls, strikes, fouls and balls hit into play), trotting batters (on home runs, walks and hit-by-pitches), and pickoff throws. This may be generous. If you cut the action down to just the time when everyone on the field is running around looking for something to do (balls in play and runner advancement attempts), you'd be down to 5:47. (1) Keep in mind, this time is based on the entire team, even though only one or two players are active at a time. If you timed how much each player is actually doing something, that player's time would be incredibly low. Now, this debate is about what is the better sport, and I think that Pro will agree that good sportsmanship is an important part of any sport. That brings me to my next point, steroids. Where is the sportsmanship in using performance enhancing drugs? Now, while an actual percentage of players that use them is almost impossible to determine due to various reasons such as players denying it, players giving percentages that vary wildly, ease of test avoidance, and test refusals, it's obvious that it's enough players to skew the integrity of the entire sport as well as call player's records into question. (2) Football, on the other hand, may not have much playtime either, but at least when the ball is in play everyone has a job to do. Even players who's only job is blocking someone, if one player is off their mark or lets their man get by them, then most likely the guys with the ball is going down. It's for this reason that teamwork, a vital part of team sports, is much more prevalent in football. Each player depends on every other player to do his job. Not to mention football is a much more technical sport, with 22 different positions, each with different responsibilities as well as 10 basic offensive plays, plus change ups like audibles and trick plays. (3) Whereas baseball is basically the same thing every time, the only exceptions being wild pitches, pickoffs, and stolen bases. There are also 7 common defensive plays, each with different formations and strategies. (4) This all makes football more diverse, and more exiting, than baseball. I believe I have shown ample evidence that football is the better sport, but in case I haven't I have more arguments for future rounds, I just want to save them so I don't use everything up and run out of things to say. I look forward to the next round.

1. http://online.wsj.com...
2. http://www.baseball-reference.com...
3. http://www.mademan.com...
4. http://www.active.com...
Debate Round No. 2
dynamicduodebaters

Pro

(INTRODUCTION)

Thank you for you for presenting your first argument. It was very interesting. Now I shall provide my next ones:


(ARGUMENTS)

(4)


IFyou were to go to the pro leagues for baseball or football, and that would awesome if any one on DDO did, it would be important what you get paid. Well, it turns out that NFL players get paid way less than a MLB player does.


“On average, NBA players make $5.15 million, MLB players make $3.2 million, NHL players make $2.4 million, and NFL players make $1.9 million per year, according to Forbes.

But that doesn't even tell the full story.

Andrew Powell-Morse and Brett Cohen at Best Tickets Blog put together two charts that reveal how few NFL players are making real money.

In short, the average NFL salary doesn't spike until most players are out of the league.

70% of NFL players are between the ages of 22 and 27. Players in that group earn less than the NFL average overall.” {1}

But before you say, well ‘the resolution states that it is a better sport, and how does salary make it a better sport’, I will say that

  1. It makes it more appealing to join the big leagues, which enhances the sport because more competition and more/better players

  2. It makes it more appealing to stay in the league, so again more players, etc…, enhancing the sport

  3. It makes it more appealing to play better, because you get paid more when you play good than if you play good in the NFL

Thus, for this reasons, baseball is better than football.

(5)

Again, I will use the big leagues in this example. I will also use all you sports fans out there. This point will be about price of tickets and other fan related facts on how baseball is better.

The price for a game is important, because it what brings you to live games. Check this out:

“Based on the Team Marketing Report Fan Cost Index (FCI), which comprises the prices of four adult average-price tickets, two small draft beers, four small soft drinks, four regular-size hot dogs, parking for one car, two game programs and two least expensive, adult-size adjustable caps, the average cost of an MLB game for a family of four is $210.46. For the NFL this season it’s $459.65. When it comes to affordable entertainment, Major League Baseball trumps the NFL.” {2}

Jeez! That is over $225 difference in price. But besides going to games, what else is better for fans? The online accessibility!

“when it comes to online offerings MLB Advanced Media is considered the gold standard by which all other sports are measured. MLB.com’s At Bat for mobile devices has been Apple ’s top-grossing app in the App Store. Not content with just iOS offerings, MLB.TV allows you to watch games via your standard computer, and At Bat is available for Android and Blackberry 10.” {2}

So, easily accessibility. What next? Free game time? Oh yah baby!

“the saying, “It ain’t over till it’s over” is born out of baseball. There is no clock. The game continues for as many innings as it takes to break ties. In that, baseball harkens back to when we used to not be on the clock. When every second of our lives weren’t counted like rare gold pieces. Most baseball fans love extra innings games. Whether it’s on Twitter or Facebook, the saying, “Free baseball,” is a sign that you’re getting more than you paid for.” {2}

Especially since you barely pay anything compared to NFL. Every fan hates lockouts. They stop seasons, and are no fun. MLB has barely any lockouts.

“the league...will see 21 years of uninterrupted labor peace. The NFL, NBA, and NHL all had work stoppages when their collective bargaining agreements ended, and they all look very much like MLB did back in 1994-95 when the game was in danger of losing fans by the droves due to the lockout that caused the World Series to be cancelled.”

21 YEARS???? That is AMAZING! No interruptions for 21 years. WOW. That is not all though, because these seasons are so game filled!

The NFL only has 16 games per team, compared to….wait for it... 162 GAMES IN MLB. HOLY CRAP! there are more than 10 times the amount of games in a MLB season than a NFL season! Enough said. WOW.

Lastly, there are games in the MLB almost EVERY NIGHT!

“If you’re a super, hardcore sports fan, baseball is the ultimate fix. Games are played daily, and with it, no matter what day it is on the calendar during the season, you have fresh game stories to talk about the next day around the water cooler. At best, you get Monday, Thursday, and Sunday in the NFL. If you’re sports junkie, that’s too long to wait.” {2}


(CONCLUSION)


Thank you,


DDD
(REFERENCES)


{1} http://www.businessinsider.com...


{2} http://www.forbes.com...
bookwyrm

Con

i would like to thank my opponent for his arguments. On with the next round.

Argument 1. Fan enjoyment. Football fans get into the game way more than baseball fans. Sure, baseball has it's hardcore fans, but they pale in comparison to football fans. When was the last time you saw a tailgating party for baseball? The most baseball fans do for group enjoyment is a barbecue. Not to mention the crowds at live games. The crowd can get so loud that it interferes with their headsets. (1) When you look at a live game, or fans sitting around their living rooms, the excitement and energy is palpable. Football pools circle the workplace. When was the last time you saw a baseball pool? Football also excels at fan enjoyment outside of the actual games. Fantasy football is a huge form of recreation in this country, and a great way for fans to get into the sport more. Approximately 32 million fans above the age of 12 play fantasy sports, 90% of which is fantasy football. (2) That's not just baseball vs football, either. That's 90% football and 10% all other fantasy sports combined. The stats speak for themselves. What makes a sport great is how much fans get into it, and that shows how much more fans love their football. Also, fan enjoyment outside of watching the sport comes into play with another version of fantasy football so to speak, video games. Football games are much better than baseball ones, as shown in this top ten list. (3) Three of the ten are football, and only one is baseball. Plus, that one is barely on the list at number 10. Of course, just because the games are ranked as better doesn't say much about the popularity or fan base, but all one has to do is look at the Madden series and how much hype surrounds it to understand the immense popularity of football games. There is even a celebrity tournament called Madden Bowl centered around it. Can baseball say the same? In short, football is much more popular than baseball (4)

Argument 2. Championship games. The Super Bowl is far and above the World Series in so many ways, but in 2013 the World Series barely squeaked by with more ratings than the once a week Monday Night Football. (5) When comparing the ratings of sporting events throughout the world, the Super Bowl came out in 2nd, even beating out the Olympics. The World Series didn't even make the list. Cricket made the list and the World Series didn't. (6) Every aspect of the Super Bowl trumps the series, from the commercials to the halftime show to the actual game. Some might argue that the sport should be what rakes in the ratings, and for the most part they would be correct. The halftime show is usually a huge event that draws big numbers, but it comes down to fan entertainment. It might not technically be part of the game, but if the NFL goes the extra mile to entertain their fans while the players regroup, I say that gets them points. Some people tune in for the commercials, sure, but it's not exactly a chicken and egg scenario. The entertainment value of the commercials is a concern for advertises as well as an advantage for football in this debate because advertisers know that memorable commercials are going to stick in a consumer's mind, and they concern themselves with this during the Super Bowl primarily because of the ratings. Advertisers pay huge amounts of money for Super Bowl commercials because those ratings are so high. They understand that they will make their money back and then some because such an exorbitant amount of people will see their commercials. If such creative and expensive commercials are worth it to the advertisers, then that just shows how many people watch the Super Bowl.

Argument 3. Profit. The NFL takes in $9.5 billion annually, $2 billion more than baseball. (7) This factors into it being a better sport for two reasons. One, advertisers wouldn't shell out that much for something with lower ratings, as made clear in the last argument, plus fans are willing to spend huge amounts of money on the sport. Something they wouldn't be willing to do unless it was worth it to them. I look forward to the next round, but on a side note, I think we've both done well so far with facts for something that, according to the comments, is just an "opinion". :)

1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
2. http://www.forbes.com...
3. http://boston.cbslocal.com...
4. http://espn.go.com...
6. http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com...
7. http://sports-facts.top5.com...
Debate Round No. 3
dynamicduodebaters

Pro

(INTRODUCTION)


Thank you for your argument. I shall continue my arguments:


(ARGUMENTS)


(6)


To make a sport better, the fans have to be better. It makes the sport more enjoyable. So what fans are better? Football, or Baseball?


“Oh yes, the fans. Like night and day.

Baseball fans are subdued. For the most part, they are leisurely in their observation of the game. They keep score, discuss statistics, debate the history of the game and eat peanuts and Cracker Jacks. The atmosphere is mostly congenial, and rude temperament is usually reserved for the drunken yahoos in the cheap bleacher seats.

Conversely, football fans are certifiably nuts. They show up in the parking lot three days before the game dressed in full theatrical garb and tailgate hard until kickoff. During the game, rude behavior is not only tolerated, it's expected. They yell, cuss and spit—and that's just the female fans.

You're guaranteed to see a group of football fans half-naked, even if the temperature is zero Kelvin. Again, female fans aren't exempt from this insane behavior, either. Look for the Packers' bikini girls during a game at frozen Lambeau Field.” {1}

So when the fans are cursing and annoying, it makes the sport much worse.

(7)

Baseball is much more of a thinking man’s game, rather than a violent game. The game is slower, has more statistics and strategy and is longer. The game is also much safer and better for adults. This game require thinking, actual strategy to compete in the sport. It requires that you think on the spot, as it is quite unpredictable, but you also cannot go in without a plan. No. In baseball you need to balance strategy and unpredictability with brawn. In football, all you need is to be fast and strong. Barely a need for a plan. But no. Baseball is the perfect balance. And that makes it so much better than football.

It also has many more variations, like softball, slow pitch, tee-ball etc. The game is better for different kinds of people and is much more adaptable and teachable. The fact that it is played much more internationally than football proves my point.

Let me just quote part of my third argument from rd2.


“Baseball is a much more appealing sport to international people. In the International Federation of American Football there are a mere 68 members, compared to the 124 International Baseball Federation members.”

I believe this point has been cemented.

(8)


For any average person, to just go out to the park and play a game of baseball, all you need is a glove, a bat, and a ball. To go out and play football, which is by definition a sport with tackling, you need at least minimal protection. So, that includes a helmet and full body padding. That is inconvenient because:


  1. You have to lug the equipment all the way to wherever you play, whether it be the park or your backyard.


  1. When you are actually playing, you have to wear 30 pounds of padding, helmet, and other forms of football protection. Imagine running around with over 30 extra pounds of weight on you!


  1. Now take the price of the equipment! Helmets can cost up to 300 dollars, rib protection 25 dollars, integrated leg protection 90 dollars, and integrated chest protection 63 dollars. RIDICULOUS! All stats from {2} And yet, this protection doesn’t do a good enough job! Look and point (1)!!! In total, the cost of football gear is around $478. Jeez. Baseball? Glove: 27 dollars. Bat: 30 dollars. Ball: 3 dollars. Total? $60, compared to $478!!!! and that is only comparing high quality gear.


  1. This much gear, with the weight and the cost, also must get really hot. REALLY HOT. Imagine wearing full body inch-thick plastic and fabric protection. Imagine how hot that would be? Having to wear that in a mid day summer game would be killing, and you would sweat so much, it would be disgusting. Then if you have to get tackled or tackle someone, that would make you sweat even more. But hey! In baseball, they wear T-shirts and hats! THAT is what I call summer clothing.




(CONCLUSION)

I look forward to your rebuttal.


DDD


(REFERENCES)

{1}


http://bleacherreport.com...


{2}


http://www.dickssportinggoods.com...
bookwyrm

Con

Argument 1. Strategy. I checked with my opponent and this doesn't break the rebuttal rule as long as I don't directly address what was said in his argument. The strategy difference between football and baseball is like chess and checkers. In football, you have the various plays I mentioned, each with a different strategy to move or stop the ball, depending on if it's an offensive or defensive play. In addition, there are audibles that allow the quarterback to make last minute play changes in accordance with how the defense is set up. As an example of how complex the play setup can be, here's a description of a basic defensive play, a 2-4-5 defense. It's a type of Nickel formation with 2 linemen, 4 linebackers, and 5 defensive backs. More common among teams with 3-4 base defenses than the 3-3-5, because all four starting linebackers remain on-field while the defensive linemen -- the slowest players on the defense -- come out. This maximizes versatility for the defense against 3- or even 4-wide receiver offensive sets. a safety will often cover the fourth receiver, and a linebacker will cover the tight end or halfback, leaving three to patrol the middle of the field. The 2-4-5 is most often used against the 2-minute offense, when substituting players may be difficult. (1) As far as offense, the plays and strategies they're set up for can be found here. (2) There are running plays, passing plays, combinations of the two, laterals, and more. Then there is the option of two point conversion, a gamble that can be very worth it if you succeed, but is incredibly difficult to pull off. There are decisions about when to punt and when to kick a field goal, depending on where you are on the field. There are many more strategies that come into play, but I think I've made my point. Then there's the two minute warning. Everything changes. During the normal course of the game, a lot of the plays are designed to run down the clock if it suits the team, others are designed to get the ball down the field as quick as possible. It's all in whatever strategy the coach decides to use. Some might say running down the clock is bad sportsmanship, but I disagree. Strategy is strategy, and the clock factors in. After the two minute warning, all of that changes. The plays are most often used to get as many yards as you can as fast as you can. Players even occasionally go out of bounds to stop the clock. Coming up with new strategies in between plays factors in as well, because depending on the situation the clock might still be running while the players are discussing options. That makes coming up with an effective plan much more difficult. In baseball, the offensive team hits the ball and runs, while the defensive team attempts to stop them. There isn't even a game clock, so the strategy doesn't change throughout the game. Admittedly, it isn't exactly easy to hit a 90 mph ball, but all professional sports are difficult.

Argument 2. Reliability. This argument is relatively short, but still matters. In baseball, the game can get postponed or cancelled due to slight rain. This can be very inconvenient for fans who have traveled a long way to get to the game, and very annoying if you have to sit there and wait for the rain to stop. In football, it takes extreme weather conditions to cancel a game, so you have a much better chance of actually seeing the game you came to see.

In closing, I feel as though I've provided ample reasons why football is indeed the better sport. I look forward to my opponent's rebuttals, as well as the chance to provide my own.

The best comparison I can think of was put forward by the greatest comedian ever, George Carlin. I'll provide a link, as opposed to filling up the box with a quote. Not really part of my argument so don't vote based on what he says, but still a good laugh for the reader.
https://www.youtube.com...

1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
2. http://www.totalprosports.com...
Debate Round No. 4
dynamicduodebaters

Pro

(INTRODUCTION)

Thanks for posting your arguments, and I found this debate on a whole enjoyable. So, I shall start! I have started my 30th debate so if this was posted a bit late then sorry, It’s just with that 30th debate I am working quite hard and so am I on this one.


(REBUTTALS)


“The only time the field team gets any action is when the ball comes toward them. The team at bat is literally sitting out most of their half of the inning.”


How I am not sure how you got that number, because their whole half inning is attempting to hit the ball, excitedly run and tag bases before someone tags them out, or know when to hit or not hit. So how is the team at bat sitting out half the inning?


The almost 18-minute average includes balls in play, runner advancement attempts on stolen bases, wild pitches, pitches (balls, strikes, fouls and balls hit into play), trotting batters (on home runs, walks and hit-by-pitches), and pickoff throws.”


Ok, assuming I use your numbers which do not fit with mine, and then I compare them to my numbers, that is 18 minutes of baseball versus 11 minutes of football. So, argument negated because baseball (according to YOU) is still shorter.


“ you cut the action down to just the time when everyone on the field is running around looking for something to do (balls in play and runner advancement attempts), you'd be down to 5:47.”


Ok, so first things first that cut that you make is cutting out over half of the action! So that’s like if I said, well let’s just cut off all the time (in football) when the ball is not being run with! See? That would be unfair, because that is cutting half the action. Second things second, I thought you just said 18 minutes?


“Where is the sportsmanship in using performance enhancing drugs? Now, while an actual percentage of players that use them is almost impossible to determine due to various reasons such as players denying it, players giving percentages that vary wildly, ease of test avoidance, and test refusals, it's obvious that it's enough players to skew the integrity of the entire sport as well as call player's records into question.”


I will address this in multiple points:


  1. The sport of baseball is INTERNATIONAL! Do you remember our international point? So thus there are way more people playing, thus it makes sense that more people playing baseball are using drug enhancement drugs than players playing football.

  2. It is not like American Football is perfect either:

http://en.wikipedia.org...


  1. We are talking about the sport in general, and so we are also taking about everything NOT in the professional leagues, and I am sure that doping is no problem there


“Football, on the other hand, may not have much playtime either, but at least when the ball is in play everyone has a job to do. Even players who's only job is blocking someone, if one player is off their mark or lets their man get by them, then most likely the guys with the ball is going down.”


  1. I think you mean whose instead of “who’s” {1}

  2. When the ball is in play actually half the team is on, not the full team, since it is offense and defense. Just pointing that out.

  3. So you are saying that if I am on defense and I let one person through each time suddenly the play drastically changes? Sure….


“Each player depends on every other player to do his job.”


How is that a good thing? I’m sorry, but if you depend on over 50 people obviously a person is gonna make a mistake. Remember, maybe in the big leagues it might be OK to depend on this many people, but at a young age? Try relying on 50 10 year olds!


“Not to mention football is a much more technical sport, with 22 different positions, each with different responsibilities as well as 10 basic offensive plays, plus change ups like audibles and trick plays.”


Wait you are con right? Because technicality makes a sport harder to learn, and thus worse! It is better to have a simple layout then have to learn too many plays. Also, having less plays in baseball speaks volumes of how good baseball is making those plays interesting.


“This all makes football more diverse, and more exciting, than baseball.”


We just proved on every argument how it wasn’t. Thus, this statement is now negated.


“Football fans get into the game way more than baseball fans. Sure, baseball has it's hardcore fans, but they pale in comparison to football fans.”


How is hardcore fans better? Imagine trying to bring your kid to a game of football where the fans are drunk and shirtless. So great huh? Football fans are obviously not family friendly. Also for adults, it is annoying when someone is yelling and screaming and painted and in your face for the whole game!


“Not to mention the crowds at live games. The crowd can get so loud that it interferes with their headsets.”


Again, isn’t this a bad thing?


“The most baseball fans do for group enjoyment is a barbecue.”


  1. How do you know

  2. What is wrong with a peaceful and YUMMY barbeque?


“When you look at a live game, or fans sitting around their living rooms, the excitement and energy is palpable.”


Well, I would like to define the word palpation:

“to examine by touch, especially for the purpose of diagnosing disease or illness” {2}


So these fans are so energetic that they are sick...And that is good? Uh……


“Football pools circle the workplace. When was the last time you saw a baseball pool?”


  1. The workplace is a place to do work, NOT to do online games

  2. Examples of baseball pools:


https://www.poolexpert.com...


http://www.runyourpool.com...


Etc, etc… There is more but I don’t wanna waste characters.


“The stats speak for themselves. What makes a sport great is how much fans get into it, and that shows how much more fans love their football.”


How does the amount of people playing a stupid online game correlate with the amount of fans getting into their sport? Huh?


“Football games are much better than baseball ones, as shown in this top ten list. (3) Three of the ten are football, and only one is baseball. Plus, that one is barely on the list at number 10. Of course, just because the games are ranked as better doesn't say much about the popularity or fan base, but all one has to do is look at the Madden series and how much hype surrounds it to understand the immense popularity of football games. There is even a celebrity tournament called Madden Bowl centered around it. Can baseball say the same?”


I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND YOU OF THE RESOLUTION AND DEFINITIONS:


“better sport”


“"a game in which two opposing teams of 11 players each defend goals at opposite ends of a field having goal posts at each end, with points being scored chiefly by carrying the ball across the opponent's goal line and by place-kicking or drop-kicking the ball over the crossbar between the opponent's goal posts."


Video games are NOT defined as a sport, for obvious reasons. Also, how is holding a remote playing the game of football that I defined?


“Championship games” (whole point)


Ok so you go on and on about audience and other stuff, but I feel like it is irrelevant when I point out this: THE WORLD SERIES IS BEST OF SEVEN!!!!! Compare THAT to The Super Bowl and suddenly you have a new story:


  1. The teams get a much bigger time frame to prove that they are the right team to win the championship

  2. Fans love it. Who doesn’t like heart pounding series comebacks or game seven epic showdowns?


“commercials” (whole half point)


I love how you totally think commercials are related to football games…..and make it a better sport on a whole...like seriously! This part doesn’t have anything to do with it being a better sport in general! Thus, take down.


“The NFL takes in $9.5 billion annually, $2 billion more than baseball”


Great, but it “ain’t about the money, money, money”- Jessie J in Price Tag.


Though seriously that shows that the MLB doesn’t need that much money to run!


“spend huge amounts of money on the sport:


And that is a good thing? Huh?


“Strategy” (Whole Point)


I agree with you that the strategies of the two points are like chess and checkers. Football is much more fluid while Baseball is again, a thinking game. The problem with Football and it’s strategies is that it is much more complicated. The rules of football are quite complicated and hard to learn, making younger players less likely to play, and as the human body grows older it also gets weaker making football much more physically tough for older individuals. Therefore football is much less inclusive on both ends of the age spectrum.


“In baseball, the game can get postponed or cancelled due to slight rain.”


Yes, it is disappointing, however it adds a level of uncertainty which makes the game more interesting. No point in watch a point you are not interested in.


(CONCLUSION)


Wow am I tired. I would like to point some things out:


-MY OPPONENT MADE POINTS IRRELEVANT TO THE RESOLUTION


-I REFUTED EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT


Thus, vote PRO!!!!


DDD

(REFERENCES)


{1} http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com...


{2} http://dictionary.reference.com...
bookwyrm

Con

A few of my opponent's rebuttals were semantics. I would explain which ones, but I'm not allowed to address his rebuttals. In the rules he states that semantics are not allowed and that breaking said rules would result in a forfeit and the opposition getting all seven points. Be that as it may, I will still refute his arguments.

Round 2 rebuttals

1. Injuries. It is true that football has a higher occurrence of injuries, yet the players are aware of this before they ever decide to play. This is actually a benefit to my argument, because they judge the reward as being worth the risk. Also, the claim that "this never happens in baseball" when referring to concussions and other head injuries is completely false. (1) It happens most often with catchers, but they are far from the only players to get them. Also, defense was misspelled.

2. Time. I already showed in one of my previous arguments that baseball is nowhere close to the 2 hours of game time that my opponent claims, therefore his argument is refuted. The difference in time is only 7 minutes, so it is a negligible.

3. International appeal. In my opponent's own words, the reason for the international appeal is it's similarity to other sports. "While yes, the two sports are generally associated with the US and Canada, Baseball is more appealing to a worldwide market because it is quite similar to other sports, like cricket and tennis.". Therefore, the inverse is true. If baseball is more similar to other sports then football is more original. Originality gives football an advantage here.

Round 3 rebuttals

1. Pay. Baseball has 25 players on their roster, with 9 active on the field. Football, however, has 53 players on the roster, and 11 active on the field. (2) When you have to pay more people, it logically follows that you would have to pay each less. Plus, it speaks to what I said in the injury rebuttal about players wanting to play despite disadvantages like higher injuries and lower pay. It must be a more enjoyable sport to play. Also, the wording is play well, not "play good" and these reasons, not "this reasons"

2. Price. I said myself in my argument about merchandise that people spend more money on football. This isn't a bad thing for my argument, though. In a consumer driven economy like ours, what people spend on something correlates directly with how much the consumer enjoys what they are buying. Therefore, people must enjoy football more if they spend more money on it. And the word is yeah, not "yah"

3. Game time. My opponent claims that extra innings and more games per week is a good thing. I disagree. People have lives. If I have something to do after a football game, I like to know I can plan around it and tell people I can leave when the game is over. If it lasts longer, then I have to change my plans. As to more games per week, there comes a point where too much is too much. No one wants to miss their favorite team play, but if you want to see all the games then you have to dedicate a good portion of your life to watching the game several nights a week. This can be a big problem for someone with a family or a social life.

Round 4 rebuttals

1. Fan behavior. Pro seems to think that fans being more exited about football is a negative. I disagree with this premise. I say that fans getting more exited about football means they enjoy it more. Just because my opponent doesn't understand the appeal that goes along with this behavior doesn't mean the appeal isn't there. Also, I would hardly call the fans "certifiably nuts". Had Pro simply said they are nuts, I would accept it as a turn of phrase. However, using the word "certifiably" brings in an official clinical declaration.

2. Strategy. I already conclusively showed in my argument that football is much more strategic than baseball. Therefore my opponent's argument is invalid. Calling baseball unpredictable is a little bit of a stretch as well. As to the variations, that's hardly a difference as football has two hand touch, flag football, sprint football, etc. (3) As to the claim that baseball has many more variations, the link lists 13, but exactly which ones you count as football variations is up to the individual.

3. Equipment. What my opponent said about needing all that equipment just to play a simple backyard game is simply untrue. I remember as a kid playing several games with only a ball. That means baseball actually needs more equipment for a pickup game, since it's nearly impossible to play with just a ball. Unless you use sticks and no gloves, and who wants to do that?

In conclusion, I have refuted every single one of my opponent's arguments, and unlike him I did it without resorting to semantics and misdirection. I will admit I felt a bit childish pointing out specific spelling and grammatical errors, and apologize if it came off that way, but since Pro pointed out my one mistake I felt like I should point out his several. I also conclusively showed in my arguments that football is better in almost every way than baseball. Thank you for reading and voting. I hope you all enjoyed it. And I would like to thank my opponent for a fun and informative debate.

1. http://www.nbcnews.com...

2. http://www.answers.com...
https://answers.yahoo.com...

3. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 5
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by crushboy79 3 years ago
crushboy79
It is obvious that pro knows little of football. About that stupid weather thing , yeah, that's a lot of pads, but I am a football player and I know from experience, that it is not very hot in there during summer. Besides, the games are played in AUTUMN, not in summer, and if you are going to whine and cry, stop playing. No football player would ever quit the game because, " it's too hot." That would show that you are a wimp, and wimps do not play football. Yeah it is a dangerous game, so what? Stats from the NFL show that on average, ONE player is seriously injured per game. In high school, my team has ONE player that are seriously injured. That is 1 player out of 8 games. Come on. And that lame point about pay, the average football player is paid 2.3 million dollars according to multiple resources including team sites. Even if it was 1.5 million, that would still be a ridiculous amount of money.
Posted by bookwyrm 3 years ago
bookwyrm
Agreed
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 3 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
yah I realize I made a mistake but you did too, so lets just leave it
Posted by bookwyrm 3 years ago
bookwyrm
Oh. I see your point. I didn't think pointing something out was arguing against it, but I can see where you're coming from. Honestly, I wouldn't have, but I felt the need to justify pointing out spelling and grammatical errors. And you have to admit, some of your rebuttals were pretty out there.
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 3 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
See?
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 3 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
"You can only argue against what I said in the arguments round, not my rebuttal round,"
Posted by bookwyrm 3 years ago
bookwyrm
I'd agree if you can show me how pointing out is against the rules. I didn't see that part, lol. But if I missed it then I'm with ya! :)
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 3 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
I find it funny how we both broke conduct.....me with the semantics, you with the pointing out. I feel like we BOTH deserve a loss for that....lol
Posted by TN05 3 years ago
TN05
I'd be willing to debate this.
Posted by bookwyrm 3 years ago
bookwyrm
I'll take this action. You're on
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 3 years ago
9spaceking
dynamicduodebatersbookwyrmTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Injuries: pro wins because football has more injuries Teamwork: con wins because he shows football players have more roles than baseball players Money: con uses the more cost against pro, showing that football gains more commerce than baseball Availability: Con wins again because he shows that baseball is only playable with a bat, ball, and gloves while all football needs is the football Fans: Tie, because number of fans verses too much fans clash equally. Strategy: Con sufficiently shows football more strategic and with its variety, has better alternatives than baseball Players on the team: Pro wins the pay argument, but con uses it in his favor to show that people enjoy playing foot ball so much they don't care about the injuries and low pay, they still do it for fun.