The Instigator
tvellalott
Pro (for)
Winning
18 Points
The Contender
Dazedinday
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

Ultimate Team Battle: Empty Earth

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
tvellalott
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/18/2011 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,438 times Debate No: 14416
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (28)
Votes (4)

 

tvellalott

Pro

Hello.

Shamelessly stolen from other Ultimate Team Wars...

This is Ultimate Team War. Each debater must assemble a team of five characters, and the teams will then fight to the death(ish). Since we cannot have an actual real-life battle, each debater will explain why their team is superior during this debate.

DEFINITIONS

Team leader: One of the debaters here, i.e. me or my opponent
Team member: One of the five chosen warriors.
Team Pro: My team.
Team Con: My opponent's team.


RULES
  1. The fight will take place in the human encampmnt on Pandora, after all of the humans have left. The Na'vi people have been temporarily evacuated from Pandora for the pruposes of this fight; all other elements of Pandora remain in place. The time is currently mid-day, and Pandora is currently experiening daytime skies.
  2. No team member may travel further than one mile from the furthest bounds of the encampment, or enter the planet further than one mile. No team member may escape Pandora's gravitational pull and go into orbit.
  3. There will be no demi-god characters that are capable of travelling at ridiculous speeds, shattering almost any barriers in their way sustaining little damage to themselves, and wiping out anything, like Superman or Sentry, or anything more powerful than that. Nor will there be any unlimited powers that cannot be resisted. If you're in doubt, just ask.
  4. Other illegal powers include time travel and mind control (taking over an opposing character).
  5. Any team member must be either real or, if fictional, verifiably existent. No characters may be made up for the purpose of this debate.
  6. In the case of a fictional character, the team member's abilities must be according to a specific canon chosen by the team leader.
  7. Every character has only the equipment that they generally have in the specified canon, at almost all times, not equipment they only picked up a few times. They should be in their default state. If a character is arguably two individuals, the debater must pick one and stick with it through the entire debate.
  8. Team members are absolutely loyal to the team leader. All team members are still subjected to their own emotions, however.
  9. The team leader may not directly participate in the competition, but may only facilitate. The role of the team leader is to explain what the team would do and why it would win against the opposing team.
  10. Neither team can have a member in common. If one team leader chooses a team member, the other team cannot have that character.
  11. A team wins when all members of an opposing team are dead, unconscious, or essentially unusable. Characters who cannot be dead, unconscious, or unusable are not allowed.
  12. The winning team automatically receives Arguments and Sources. Conduct, in addition to regular things, goes to the person who follows the rules most effectively. Please remember this rule.

Round 1: Rule specifications; PRO unveils first three team members, CON unveils all five team members. PRO also chooses the location of his team at the start of the fight; CON then chooses a different location at least X meters away from the one picked by PRO (determined based on the location).

Round 2: PRO unveils his final two team members and explains why his team is better. CON also begins his arguments.

Round 3, 4, 5: Arguments and rebuttals. CON may not present any new arguments during round 5, since PRO has no chance to rebut them.


LOCATION

The location will be Earth, as it is right now, if every human disappeared. Neither team will be destroyed by accident or by nuclear weapons or anything silly like that.


EXTRAS

I thought as an interesting twist, each team must choose one member to be a tracker and one person to be a target. The opposing trackers can find the opposing target anywhere.
My team will begin in Melbourne, Australia.
My opponents team will begin in New York City.
They may use any means neccessary to travel, as long as it isn't out the the realm of the characters in the team. (Ie. Spiderman can't build a slingshot of web and fling the team across the planet, but Women Women could use her invisible plane.)


MY TEAM
  1. CAPTAIN AMERICA [1]: Captain America, after being administered the Super Soldier Serum, is the absolute peak of human potential, border-lining on super-human. With his famous shield [2] and expert combat skills, he is a formidable opponent.
  2. YODA [3]: The great jedi master Yodi, armed with his green light saber and mastery of the force. Up, he will fvck you.
  3. CLOUD STRIFE [4]: The main protagonist of Final Fantasy 7. By the time he confronts Sephiroth, he is extremely powerful. Armed with the Ultima weapon, he is ready to fight.
  4. ???
  5. ???


SOURCES

[1] http://marvel.wikia.com...
[2] http://marvel.wikia.com...
[3] http://starwars.wikia.com...
[4] http://finalfantasy.wikia.com...
Dazedinday

Con

I shall accept your Ultimate Team Battle. As the opposing team, I shall introduce my first three team members.

-
a. Master Chief of the Halo series [1]
b. Luke Skywalker of the Star Wars Hexalogy [2]
c. Fenix (Dragoon) of the Starcraft universe [3]

Sources:
[1] http://halo.wikia.com...
[2] http://starwars.wikia.com...
[3] http://starcraft.wikia.com...

Descriptions:
a. Master Chief
Against impossible odds, Master Chief has ousted the covenant, the flood, and has saved countless lives. Master Chief is equipped with Mjolnir armor, which envelopes the user with protective energy shield. With his armor, and with his augmented strength, he can lift even a tank. His main choice of weapons are varieties of ballistic weaponry issued by the UNSC navy, but his tenacious nature allows him to use nearly anything as weapons.

b. Luke Skywalker
He is the son of Anakin Skywalker, and is just as powerful as Anakin. His force (mediclorian count) is highest of all times in the Star Wars universe, and is a very formidable user of lightsabers.

c. Fenix
A prelate of the Protoss conclave, as a Dragoon, his entire body is engulfed in a cybernetic shell. It is essentially a tank, however is wielded with an incredulously advanced Protoss technology. It's structural integrity is very powerful, and furthermore equipped with the protoss Plasma shield. It's main weapons are the powerful phase cannon, which disintegrates materials near instantaneously.

My tracker will be one of the 4th or 5th character. I'm not clarified on what a 'target' is though.

Debate Round No. 1
tvellalott

Pro

Dude, I'm really sorry but I'm not going to write this in time.
>_<
I'm smashed as...

Dazedinday

Con

That's okay. Not because I'm adding my two characters now.
a. Master Chief
b. Luke Skywalker
c. Fenix

d.Zeratul
Prelate Zeratul is a Dark Templar, a part of banished group of the protoss which have refused to join with the Khala (a channel which all Protoss share their minds psionically.)
Using his void psionic powers, Zeratul is invisible to most, and can phase through a certain distance. His psionic blade is extremely powerful, and can cut nearly anything to shreds.

e. Kerrigan
The queen of blades is a formidable psion. She is the ruler of the Zerg swarm, and herself wields a very powerful psionic weapons such as the psionic storm, telekinesis, and simply blowing brains off.

http://starcraft.wikia.com......
http://starcraft.wikia.com......

Of course. My idea was to simply choose the superior character for each one of his. And the 4th and 5th themselves are strong.

Why Master Chief is stronger than Captain America.
Captain America is a super-soldier of the 20th and 21st century. Master Chief is the super-soldier of the 26th century. Master Chief has impregnable bones, has superhuman reflexes, is superhumanely fast, and is equipped with armor that far passes Captain America's rather puny technology.
Other than that, Captain America's most attacks rely on shield throwing, and shield stuff. 1. Captain America throws his shield. Master Chief could simply catch it, or shoot it to defect its course. Then Captain America gets owned, because he cannot defend himself from bullets.
2. Captain America decides to hold his shield and fight him off. Master Chief simply throws a stick grenade. GG.

Why Luke Skywalker is stronger than Yoda.
Of course, in their most powerful forms, (and of course, the two would never fight, but let's say they are puppets and they do indeed fight.) Luke is the pinnacle of all Jedis, and can throw the (specified in the reference) emerald lightning which instantly kills the enemy.
1. Luke throws a emerald lightning. Yoda tries to absorb the lightning, which does not absorb because it is not a sith lightning. Yoda dies.
2. Yoda attempts to use his force against Luke, but is overwhelmed by a superior force.
3. Yoda attempts to use his lightsaber against Luke. This is questionable at best, but I'm betting Luke will win.

Why Fenix is stronger than Cloud Strife
Fenix is a dragoon of the Protoss conclave. Cloud Strife is a vagrant, with no visible armour. Fenix has a cybernetic suit of Protoss technology, which is lightyears ahead of the 26th century Human technology. It is shielded with Plasma shielding which apparently takes alot against a material sword. (Even against a psionic sword, which can cut through anything, the plasma shielding is very formidable. If your character was a cannon, maybe.) Of course, if Fenix let Cloud hit him continuously, of course Fenix would die. That's not the case.
1. Cloud attempts to attack, Fenix simply blasts Cloud with phase cannons. Phase cannons simply erase 'material' from the target. Cloud is 'vaporized' into thin air.
2. Cloud attempts to attack. Fenix simply uses his innate protoss psionics to blow Cloud's brain off.

I'm not sure what Cloud's real abilities would be against Fenix. But a simple human without futuristic armor and weapon would simply die against a dragoon.

Debate Round No. 2
tvellalott

Pro

MY TEAM
  1. CAPTAIN AMERICA [1]: Captain America, after being administered the Super Soldier Serum, is the absolute peak of human potential, border-lining on super-human. With his famous shield [2] and expert combat skills, he is a formidable opponent.
  2. YODA [3]: The great jedi master Yodi, armed with his green light saber and mastery of the force. Up, he will fvck you.
  3. CLOUD STRIFE [4]: The main protagonist of Final Fantasy 7. By the time he confronts Sephiroth, he is extremely powerful. Armed with the Ultima weapon, he is ready to fight.
  4. JON IRENICUS [5]: The main villain of the game Baldur’s Gate II. A ridiculously powerful mage and later able to turn into the Slayer form.
  5. BRUCE BANNER [6]: Mild manner scientist Bruce Banner, exposed to Gamma rays, turns into the Hulk, a green smashing machine.

THE BATTLE

The battle begins, with my team in Melbourne, Australia.

First, Yoda does his Battle Meditation [7] (A skill Luke Skywalker is never shown to have). This (to quote the source): "a FORCE ABILITY which considerably boosts the morale, stamina, and overall battle prowess of an individual's allies while simultaneously reducing the opposition's combat-effectiveness by eroding their will to fight."

Jon Irenicus casts [8] Absolute Immunity and Spell Trap on himself, essentially making him immune to physical and magical damage until the spells wear off or are dispelled.

Yoda, having finished his meditation, uses the Force to convince Bruce Banner that Master Chief raped and murdered his wife Betty and as one would imagine, he promptly transforms into a very, very angry Hulk.

Irenicus then teleports The Hulk (using the gate technique he is shown to use multiple times during the game) to teleport the Hulk right to where my opponents team is.

While the Hulk is busy smashing the crap out of everything, trying to rip Master Chiefs head off and kick it in to the sun, Irenicus casts a Group Invisibility spell over the rest of the team and teleports them around 100 metres away from the battle.

Cloud prompty attacks Fenix with the fully powered Omnislash with the Ultima weapon. Despite his futuristic armour, this would definately distract him enough for...

Yoda to leap over Clouds shoulder and decapitate the stunned Felix and move on to attack Zeratul.

Irenicus casts Power Word: Stun on Kerrigan (who has no magical defense) and Captain America charges her, smashing his shield into her throat repeatedly.

By this time, The Hulk has surely destroyed Master Chief.

This leaves my entire team against Luke Skywalker. Irenicus casts Flesh to Stone and The Hulk smashes the statue to pieces.


SOURCES

[1] http://marvel.wikia.com...
[2] http://marvel.wikia.com...
[3] http://starwars.wikia.com...
[4] http://finalfantasy.wikia.com...
[5] http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com...
[6] http://marvel.com...
[7] http://starwars.wikia.com...
[8] http://www.sorcerers.net...

Dazedinday

Con

Not sure if you are familiar with the powers the characters of StarCraft has, but allow me to introduce.

My team, which is in New York, is quite surprised at the fact the Hulk arrived at their location- was aware the moment Hulk arrived, because of the fact that 3 are psions, and 1 is a force user.
[1] http://dictionary.reference.com...
[2] http://starcraft.wikia.com...
As in definition, the three are mind readers, telepathic, and on Starcraft canon, they are also able to 'blow' someone's mind. It is the simplest thing they can do.

When Hulk arrived, Zeratul simply used his 'void prison' to trap Hulk's mind in the void for a short period of time, thus he was stunned. And a moment was all that was required for Luke to dislodge his head.
Hulk lies dead, headless. Hulk arriving first in the midst of powerful psions was a mistake.

When the group with group invisibility arrive at their location, Kerrigan simply cloaks herself with her ghost powers, as shown in Starcraft: Brood Wars, and simply uses ensnare which makes everyone visible, and slow with sticky Zerg goo.
[3] http://starcraft.wikia.com...

This allows Master Chief to handle Captain America, while Luke handles Yoda. This also leaves Zeratul to trap Irenicus's mind in void, and allow Kerrigan to use implosion against Yoda while Luke and Yoda are fighting. Yoda is trapped within a gravity well which will crush his body, and to make sure, Luke quickly impales Yoda with his lightsaber.

All at this time, Fenix (by the way, it is Fenix, not Felix) simply gets in Cloud's way, which for a Dragoon and his massive body, which is easy to do. When Cloud tried to omnislash his way in, Fenix simply started shooting which turned Cloud into nothing.

This leaves the team to turn to a void minded (mind attacks are neither magical nor physical) Irenicus. Irenicus wakes up and has two choices.
1. Irenicus's spell is still active, but still isn't invulnerable to mind attacks. The three psions simply blows Irenicus's mind permanently with combined psionics.
2. Irenicus's spell is now inactive. Everyone impale, vaporize, and blow up Irenicus.

What my opponent forgot, or did not take into account:
- Zeratul is permanently invisible to the naked eye unless in the eyes of a psionic detectors such as Overlords of Zerg, or powerful detectors such as an Observer of protoss.

- Psionics is a mind attack, 'telepathic', however it cannot [4] control minds, unless a Dark Archon is present. My opponent is not taking into account the nature of these powers.
[4] http://starcraft.wikia.com...

- Simply banging on Kerrigan does not kill her. She is a Zerg. She is covered in Zerg carapace, which withstands quite powerful physical attacks such as the Arclite cannon (of the siege tanks), and quite powerful futuristic weapons of the 26th century. Cutting her with lightsabers might work, but simply banging with shields probably won't work. Also, the Zerg are hyper-regenerative. The [5] Zerg cinematic shows that Kerrigan can regenerate at incredible speeds (somewhat like wolverine, cannot imagine who is faster at healing.)
[5] http://starcraft.wikia.com...
[6]
(The #6 link is a youtube. watch?v=LVK78PMy2Xo&feature=player_embedded
Doing it because it doesn't show on review, just in case.)

- The shields of Dragoons are powerful enough to withstand several blasts of even the most powerful weaponry in the 26th arsenal of Terrans (humans). Omnislashes and a simple 'poke' of lightsaber won't drop his plasma shields. Yoda would have to fight Fenix a bit more seriously than that.



Debate Round No. 3
tvellalott

Pro

Thank you to my opponent for his prompt response.

REBUTTALS


I’ll address my opponent’s counter-arguments first:
First of all the idea that THE HULK’s mind is simply “trapped in a mind prison” completely breaks rule 4 as it is obviously a form of mind control. The Hulks known resistance to such techniques is well established anyway [1].

So no, I don’t think that the Hulk appearing right amongst my opponent’s team would go down as he described. More likely the highly enraged Hulk would send the members of the team flying in random directions in an effort to get to Master Chief, leaving them open for the secondary attack.

Irenicus casts True Sight on the area immediately upon arrival and reveals the location of any invisible opponents.

Cloud Strife uses his Fire magic [2] and evaporates Kerrigan’s slime and then attacks Fenix.

Now, my opponent pointed out the fact that Kerrigan is covered in a Zerg carapace and that simply ‘banging’ on it is ineffective. Who is banging? Captain America attacks an obvious weak point (She needs to breathe right?) while she is completely helpless. He isn’t a normal human, he is incredible strong. I imagine the process would quickly sever her head. Can she regrow her head? Regardless, Irenicus could simply cast Power Word: Kill on her and be done with it.

Also, my opponent seems to believe that a full-blown Omnislash attack, from a fully-powered Cloud, with the Ultima weapon, isn’t going to damage his dragoon enough for Yoda to decapitate him. This is obviously ridiculous.

Since my opponent only pointed out that Zeratul was invisible (which I have addressed) and not that he would defeat Yoda, I assume he concedes this point.

I’d also like to address also the assumption my opponent is making regarding Luke Skywalker and Yoda. Luke’s untrained, yet overpowered abilities in the light side of the force may have been the greatest in the galaxy AFTER the Jedi council had been destroyed by Vader, but Yoda was considered a master thousands of years before Luke was born and only increased in mastery over the force.

I’ll break it down like this:
  • The “Purple” lightning is part of the light side of the force, correct? Well given that Yoda is a master of the Light side, I think he would be able to manipulate it with more ease than the Dark-side lightning. This ‘instant death’ argument is moot.
  • In terms of force powers, Yoda is at least equal to Luke, although I’d argue he was superior. We’re talking about thousands of years of experience. Yoda has a massive advantage here.
  • In terms of Lightsaber form, Yoda is a master of all 7 of the forms of the Jedi and has put extreme focus on form IV. Luke doesn’t stand a chance, given that he has simply had to formulate his own styles based on the small amount of training he received from Obi Wan and Yoda.
Finally, Hulk beats Master Chief… right? Is this point conceded?

Ultimately, Irenicus is the turning point in this battle. His mastery of magic and my opponents complete weakness to it is the deciding point. He has a multitude of spells specifically for battle, both powerful offensive and defensive spells. Given that he is invisible and highly resistant to damage for a period, he simply stands back casting spells to aid his team and defeat my opponents.

SUMMARY
  • Yoda maximises team’s spirits and lowers the opponents.
  • Yoda convinces Bruce Banner that Master Chief raped and murdered his wife.
  • Irenicus teleports Hulk to the location of my opponents team.
  • Hulk smashes.
  • Irenicus casts defensive spells on himself, cloaks everyone remaining with invisibility spell and teleports the rest of the group to a small distance from the location.
  • Irenicus casts True Sight, revealing the location of invisible enemies.
  • Cloud uses fire magic to destroy Kerrigan’s slime.
  • Irenicus stuns Kerrigan.
  • Captain America decapitates the incapacitated Kerrigan.
  • Irenicus casts Flesh to Stone on Luke Skywalker.
  • Cloud launches a full blown attack on Fenix’s armour.
  • Yoda decapitates Fenix.
  • Cloud and Yoda attack Zeratul.
  • Hulk rips Master Chiefs head off.

SOURCES


[1] http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com...
[2] http://finalfantasy.wikia.com...
Dazedinday

Con

Now to rebuttal the rebuttal. And presumptions should not be, because I take no presumptions when I combine different universes together. Like thinking Omnislash that works well on Final Fantasy would also work well against a Protoss Dragoon. Ridiculous.
As an example of my rebuttal, Goku thought he was strong when he was on planet Earth. He discovered that he was 'weak' even against a weakling of the extra-galactic when facing an extra-galactic force. This should be a fair analogy.
(As reference from when Goku meets Raditz. http://dragonball.wikia.com... )

May I state, mind prison is not a form of mind control. It is a form of mind attack, but it obviously doesn't make the Hulk turn on your team, nor can I make it abide by my wills. What it only does is to stun the Hulk temporarily. Temporarily is the only thing that takes to dislodge Hulk's head, which is vulnerable to varieties of weapons my team has. Let's say Hulk wasn't stunned, but he still has no way to defend himself from:

1. A Lightsaber.
2. Psi-blade
3. Phase Cannon
( Note to reference, Phase Cannons: http://starcraft.wikia.com...;
are antimatter bolts that are coated in a psionically charged field. It essentially eats away matter. )

He is not a Flash, and thus he will be killed instantly the moment he arrives. And thus, Master Chief is not killed.

While I think it was a tactical mistake you made, that your team arrived 100 meters away, when you did not anticipate Hulk would be 'killed' instantaneously. While your team is 100 meters away, Kerrigan ensnares (again, slows the group, and enables vision) your group, and while Fenix and Master Chief fires at your group.

Master Chief throws a frag grenade at Irenicus, sending him flying far away. Of course, he would live, since he is invincible for the time being, but the teammates around him are badly injured or killed.

And while Master Chief does that, Fenix fires at Captain America, and is quickly dissolved into vapor (note, his Shield is nearly invulnerable to 'physical attacks', not antimatter bolts)

All of that would take around 3 seconds, which would make your team atleast 30 meters away. While Kerrigan ensnares your team again, Fenix fires another bolt at Cloud Strife, which vaporizes Cloud.

Irenicus arrives late, due to the fact that he was a bit farther and was ensnared. Kerrigan, Fenix, and Zeratul all attack psionically, and Irenicus's brain implodes.

--
Things to consider
:

While I know your obsession with Yoda and the poorly depicted 30 year old movie Luke will make it seem like Yoda > Luke, that is contrary to the case. Lightsaber prowess does not equal in experience. While Yoda may have lived for millenia, and has trained for several hundred to be a Jedi, he still has not proven himself the very best.
As an example to my argument, in the canon, Star Wars episode 3, Mace Windu defeats Palpatine, but was thwarted by Anakin. But in the second duel after that, Yoda faces Palpatine, but fails to defeat Palpatine. In fact, I'd even consider that Yoda's defeat. That makes us reconsider how powerful Yoda is. However, by episode 6, Anakin grows more powerful than even Palpatine (and considered the most powerful of all times), and Luke defeats Anakin (Darth Vader). But even after that, Luke becomes the Grand Master of the New Jedi Order, and becomes even more powerful than that. I'll simply sum it up like this. Yoda is weak, even in the Star Wars universe. I've stated with canon facts, but all you're doing is presuming with baseless arguments.
Luke > Anakin > Mace Windu > Palpatine > Yoda

And I have not presumed whether or not Zeratul would win against Yoda, because both their powers are fairly great. To a force user, invisibility may not even be a hindrance. But that does not change the fact that Zeratul is also a powerful psion, and anytime can attack Yoda's mind directly.

You underestimate Kerrigan's power. Kerrigan is a psion whose power is one of the greatest in the entire Starcraft universe. You could probably compare her as several 'Professor X's. In the canon Starcraft, she controls the Zerg swarm through her psionic nature, which number in the trillions. Without the problem of controling all those swarms, her psionic powers are unbelievably powerful. And no, Zerg Carapaces (in fact, that's why they're called carapace and not skin.) are as strong as steel, especially Kerrigan's. Of course, in your scenario, Captain America wouldn't even make it to her.

Irenicus's powers such as invincibility and the Power Word: Kill would violate rule #3, since it essentially makes him wipe out anything all the while without taking any damage.

Most of your teams are one shot from Fenix, and none of them are very good at ranged combat. Which ironically, you've placed them 100 meters away, and left Hulk to die the moment he arrives.
--

As an alternative, let's say you did not make a tactical mistake and your team arrived as a whole. Which would probably make your team way more effective. Fenix would still kill Hulk incredibly fast, and Kerrigan would still ensnare everyone. Cloud won't even leave a scratch on Fenix, and Yoda would still be trying to break Fenix's shields. Master Chief simply shoots at Cloud, who gets impaled pretty easily, due to being 'Human', and 'No armor', and as you seem to assume that it was a wide open space.

Your team arrives invisible, but at that moment, Kerrigan throws an ensnare while her mind works to stir up a psionic storm above your team. Your team is in disarray, and Master Chief and Fenix starts shooting. As you say, Irenicus casts True Sight to see Kerrigan and Zeratul, however fails to realize by that time, Zeratul can either void prison Irenicus, and Kerrigan can simply crush Captain America with her telekinetic Implosion abilities.

Another thing my opponent has not considered.
But this is 'New York' City. It isn't flat ground, nor does it mean that when your team arrives 100 meters away, mean that they can simply move at a route optimally 100 meters. While 100 meters maybe the optimal distance, it could vary from 100 to 100xroot3 (approximately 173 meters) meters without taking account the necessity to go into buildings and other structural obstructions that require your team to move further.

Tactically, the attacker should have the disadvantage, likewise, 'warping 100 meters away' would give my team so much an advantage, the already superior team would have no problem dealing with pests like Captain America, Bruce Banner, Cloud Strife, Yoda, and maybe the only formidable opponent Irenicus.


Debate Round No. 4
tvellalott

Pro

I'd like to thank my opponent for a challenging battle.

POINTS

CLOUD versus FENIX
I’m not sure how familiar my opponent is with Cloud or the Final Fantasy VII game, but he is massively underestimating Cloud’s ability to fight an armoured suit.
The game is set in a futuristic world. Many of the bosses (including the Ruby and Emerald Weapons [1], [2]) in Final Fantasy VII are giant robots. We have to make some presumptions and Cloud damaging the suit enough that Yoda can make the final strike is a safe one.

HULK versus Psionic Attacks

I specifically chose the Hulk because of the advantage he has against Psychic and Mental attacks. One minute you’re telling me not to make presumptions and the next you’re blatantly ignoring evidence (source 1, round 4) about the Hulk. Your psionic blasts would affect him yes, but if he just appeared right in the centre of your group filled with murderous rage he is hardly going to be instantly incapacitated. Also, the Hulk is HIGHLY resistant to almost all forms of attack that have been used against him. To assume that because you’re characters are big shots in Star Craft that they will be able to instantly destroy a highly enraged Hulk is fail.

CAPTAIN AMERICA versus Kerrigan
Right, so Captain America can’t hurt Kerrigan. He smashes her in the throat with his indestructible shield while she is completely incapacitated and she is unhurt. I’ll add that Captain America can bench press 1100 pounds [3], so it’s quite a hard smash.

“And no, Zerg Carapaces (in fact, that's why they're called carapace and not skin.) are as strong as steel, especially Kerrigan's.”


Try as I might I can’t find any resource that says this…
This is what Blizzard says:
“The zerg as a whole are extremely tough, tenacious, and deadly. Their natural armor and weaponry is comparable to modern technology [surely a future context...] in terms of toughness and armor-piercing capabilities.”

I think it will have to be left up to the judges (who are going to leave lovely long RFD’s…) about this one.


REBUTTALS


“Luke > Anakin > Mace Windu > Palpatine > Yoda”


Ummm, no. Have you seen the movies?

Luke turned Anakin back to the light side. If he hadn’t, he would have been killed.

Anakin killed Mace Windu while he was blocking Palpatine’s lightning. One on one, the fight would have been much different. Would you argue that Obi Wan, who beat Anakin was stronger than Mace Windu?

Finally, Yoda and Palpatine was a draw. However, if Yoda had been the Sith and Palpatine was the Jedi, it would have been a very different fight.

The circumstance and character of the above fighters were all very important to the fights mentioned. In other words, your formula fails and I stand by the fact that Yodi, while completely loyal to my commands would be stronger.

Regardless, Yoda never fights Luke, so it’s an irrelative point.
-----------------------------------------------

“You underestimate Kerrigan's power. Kerrigan is a psion whose power is one of the greatest in the entire Starcraft universe. You could probably compare her as several 'Professor X's.”


Right… so she is massively overpowered compared to a modest choice like Captain America? Yeah, I got that...
...which is exactly why I chose the Hulk, who is highly resistant to psychic attacks and Irenicus, because despite her massive power, she has no immunity to magic.
----------------------------------------------

“Irenicus's powers such as invincibility and the Power Word: Kill would violate rule #3, since it essentially makes him wipe out anything all the while without taking any damage.”

Yes, well I had to choose someone incredibly strong to counter-act having modest choices for my first three characters. A few of your characters can disintegrate a few of my characters instantly for example. He isn’t completely invincible and the Absolute Immunity spell only lasts four rounds anyway; enough that my original attack would still completely work.

“He is not a Flash, and thus he will be killed instantly the moment he arrives. And thus, Master Chief is not killed.”

Let me break this down for you.
  • Yoda enrages Bruce Banner with the same information that lead to World War Hulk [4].
  • Irenicus teleports Hulk right in the midst of your team.
  • My team appear moments later.
How long do you think it would take the Hulk to knock three of your members flying before making a bee line for Master Chief? Bang. Bang. Bang. Three seconds? He is very fast.

CONCLUSION

My team wins, duh.
My opponent's characters are not varied in skill-sets enough to counter attack my attack plan. His rebuttals have basically consisted of "NOOOO, my character can't be hurt like that and you die instantly."

VOTE Pro.


SOURCES


[1] http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net...
[2] http://images.wikia.com...
[3] http://marvel.wikia.com...
[4] http://marvel.wikia.com...
Dazedinday

Con

Dazedinday forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
28 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
Thanks mon. I was disappointed too. :(
Posted by mongeese 6 years ago
mongeese
That was an amazing last round followed by a disappointing forfeit. Congrats, tv.
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
I made a mistake about the Anakin - Windu thing.
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
I did my best against nasty odds.
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
I'll definately make the deadline, but first... minecraft!
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
I regret choosing Captain America. He is really the only person who is essentially useless against all of my opponents.
Posted by mongeese 6 years ago
mongeese
This debate is looking pretty intense. Keep it up!
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
I'm really enjoying these UTW's. I'm going to start a new one when this is done. ^_^
Except my reply in the next 9-12 hours.
Posted by Dazedinday 6 years ago
Dazedinday
Lol. No u.
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
Your team sucks. :P
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Brenavia 6 years ago
Brenavia
tvellalottDazedindayTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I love Starcraft, and I hate marvel. Not only does SC trump the superheros from marvel, but the Sci-FI tech from SC easily destroys any resistance.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
tvellalottDazedindayTied
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Vote Placed by mongeese 6 years ago
mongeese
tvellalottDazedindayTied
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Vote Placed by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
tvellalottDazedindayTied
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Total points awarded:70