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Ultimate Team War - Gateway Planet 2

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/31/2009 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,762 times Debate No: 10626
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (32)
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This is Ultimate Team War - Gateway Planet. Each debater must assemble a team of three characters, and the teams will then fight to the death(ish). Since we cannot have an actual real-life battle, each debater will explain why their team is superior during this debate.

Team leader: One of the debaters here, i.e. me or my opponent.
Team member: One of the three chosen warriors.
Team Pro: My team.
Team Con: My opponent's team.

1. Battles take place on Gateway Planet, the main planet of Gateway Galaxy ( For any conversions, assume Mario to be 1m tall.
The planet's escape velocity is assumed to be 11.2k/s. If any team member escapes the gravitational pull of Gateway Planet, that team member is disqualified.
2. There is no instant transportation of any kind.
3. All team members must be street level - their abilities must be on par with somewhat human level, like Batman or Spiderman, not Superman. If you are unsure of what constitutes a street level character, just ask. If you think one of my first two team members might be above street level, comment, and we'll discuss it before you accept.
4. Every team member must be either real or, if fictional, verifiably existent. No characters may be made up for the purpose of this debate.
5. In the case of a fictional character, the team member's abilities must be according to a specific canon chosen by the team leader.
6. Every character has only the equipment that they generally have in the specified canon.
7. Team members are absolutely loyal to the team leader, unless subjected to some form of mind control by the opposing team. All team members are still subjected to their own emotions, natures, or other psychological restrictions, however.
8. The team leader may not directly participate in the competition, but may only facilitate. The role of the team leader is to explain what the team would do and why it would win against the opposing team.
9. Neither team can have a member in common. If one team leader chooses a team member, the other team cannot have that person.
10. A team wins when all members of an opposing team are dead or unconscious. Characters who cannot be dead or unconscious are not allowed.
11. The winning team automatically receives Arguments and Sources. Conduct, in addition to regular things, goes to the person who follows the rules most effectively.

Round 1: Rule specifications; PRO unveils first two team members, CON unveils all three team members.

Round 2: PRO unveils his final team member and explains why his team is better. CON also begins his arguments.

Round 3, 4, 5: Arguments and rebuttals. CON may not present any new arguments during round 5, since PRO has no chance to rebut them.

Team Member 1: Mario (Mario & Luigi series) [1]

Mario is an Italian plumber who like to eat Mushrooms. He jumps on his enemies to damage them. He is also armed with a hammer. He is very skilled at counter-attacks. His timing is Excellent!!

He is of the Rainbow rank, with maxed-out stats. He wears a Mushroom badge. His gear includes A-OK Wear, Gumption Socks, and a Big Shell.

Team Member 1: Luigi (Mario & Luigi series) [1]

Luigi is an Italian plumber who like to eat Mushrooms. He jumps on his enemies to damage them. He is also armed with a hammer. He is very skilled at counter-attacks. His timing is Excellent!!

He is of the Rainbow rank, with maxed-out stats. He wears an Excellent!! badge. His gear includes A-OK Wear, Gumption Socks, and a Big Shell.

Together, Mario and Luigi are capable of using Special Attacks.

1. For all Mario-universe related stuff, see this wiki:


Thanks to the esteemed mongeese for the chance to debate! Since this is the first round, I shall present my team and summarise their abilities.

Team Member 1: Charizard (Ash's, Pokemon anime) [1]

Widely considered to be Ash's strongest pokemon before he gave it away, Charizard is a powerful fire type capable of blasting or trapping it's opponents with searing flames, and striking directly with a variety of techniques such as skull bash and steel wing. It can also use the powerful overheat technique, increasing the power of it's flame attacks, although this loses effectiveness everytime it is used.

It is also a jealous and angry combatant- it does not go down easily, and when struck down by an opponent, it is likely to rise up again angrier and more determined to win than ever.

Team Member 2: Peach (Super Princess Peach) [2]

In Super Princess Peach, Peach has a variety of abilities at her disposal. She can use her 'emotion' powers to attack, for instance 'Joy' allows her to fly, and be enveloped by a cyclone that blows enemies away, 'Rage' envelops her in a big blaze, making her invincible and burning enemies for a short time- however, she cannot move very fast or jump very far, and finally 'Calm' allows her to recover any injury she has incured as long as she avoids enemies while healing. She can also use her umbrella to strike with the same force as Mario's pound attacks.

It goes without saying that Peach is a pretty and alluring character, and neither Mario or Luigi are likely to even entertain thoughts of attacking her.

Team Member 3: Sakura (Naruto Anime) [3]

In the Naruto anime, Sakura possess immense strength, having the power to throw a person hundreds of feet in the air, and punch them through a stone wall or tree (or several). She can also create a devastating earthquake by punching the ground whilst release large amounts of 'chakra', ripping the ground apart and sending anyone standing there flying.

She is also a skilled medical ninja, with the ability to wield chakra to quickly heal even the gravest injuries.

Debate Round No. 1


I will now present my final team member.

Team Member 3: Bowser (Mario & Luigi series)

Bowser's most basic attacks are his punch and his fire breath. He is capable of body slamming and rolling up into his shell, sometimes able to roll around. Bowser also has the ability to inhale objects the size of a human or smaller thanks to his eating of a Vacuum Mushroom.

He is of the Final Boss Rank, with maximized stats. He wears a King Shell, a Fury Band, and Intruder Fangs. He carries with him numerous drumsticks and 20 Retry Clocks to allow for easier planning.

Now, for my attack plan:

Bowser can easily inhale both Peach and Sakura, who end up unconscious somewhere in Bowser's belly, as Mario was when Bowser had first inhaled Mario in the story.

Mario and Luigi use the rock-based Mighty Meteor to attack Charizard repeatedly, jumping and hammering to avoid any retaliation by Charizard. Bowser joins the attack with repeated punches. Bowser would also be able to rally the Goombas on Gateway Planet for numerous Goomba Storms.

After Charizard is down, and Peach and Sakura are consumed, I have a few options here:

1. If Peach and Sakura are still unconscious, then the fight is over, and Team PRO wins.

2. Bowser could curl up into a spike ball and launch himself higher and higher into the air until he escapes Gateway Planet's gravitational pull, eliminating Bowser, Peach, and Sakura, leaving Mario, Luigi, and an unconscious, already disqualified Charizard. Team PRO, therefore, wins.

Now, you might be thinking that Mario and Luigi must be inside Bowser for Bowser to be able to fly into the air as a spike ball. However, at the end of Bowser's spike battle duel with Dark Bowser, Bowser follows Dark Bowser completely voluntarily, with no movement from Mario and Luigi, evidencing that Bowser is capable of flying by himself.

3. Bowser could inhale one of the pipes present on Gateway Galaxy. Mario and Luigi would enter the other pipe. They would end up in Bowser's Pipe Yard. They would then find Sakura, and defeat her using a few Magic Mirrors. They would then locate Peach, and defeat her using a Spin Pipe. Neither Sakura nor Peach has explored Bowser's body very much, so they would not be able to regroup. They are also unable to trek through Bowser's body completely, which is conveniently designed for skillful travel by Mario and Luigi.

If Peach and Sakura are, for whatever reason, not consumed, Luigi can simply defeat them both using well-timed Magic Mirrors.


Bowser can easily absorb any of Charizard's Fire attacks, as evidenced by his own lack of damage from Dark Bowser's flames. Any contact-requiring attacks would get Charizard either hammered or punched.

Peach has a very limited Vibe Gauge that can't be refilled to a great extent at Gateway Planet. If she ever uses Rage, Mario and Luigi could hide underground with their drill attack, and Bowser could escape by rolling around in his shell.
My opponent has already made the claim that Mario and Luigi would not attack Peach. However, looking at Super Smash Bros. Brawl disproves this idea. Mario would easily attack Peach if necessary.
(Note: This may be out of the specified canon of the Mario & Luigi series, but abilities and equipment are still sourced from the proper canon. Since Mario's reaction to having to fight Peach cannot be determined from the Mario & Luigi series, another canon must be turned to.)

As for Sakura, her super strength can be countered Bowser's own super strength, as Bowser could hold his own long enough for Mario and Luigi to enter the Warp Pipe and power up Bowser's legs at the Leg Outpost, or his arms at the Arm Center, easily allowing Bowser to outdo Sakura. Mario and Luigi would use hammers, or jump to avoid any punches or ground-shaking attacks.

With that plan, I leave my opponent to refute it.



With Pro's strategy in mind, I shall now present three counter strategies to ensure victory.

1. Hit 'em fast and hard.

As soon as the bout begins, Charizard launches himself onto Bowser. The King of the Koopas is taken by surprise, and is unable to defend himself because all his concentration is spent using the Vacuum mushroom. Charizard grabs the Koopa, easily lifting him off the ground (Charizard has previously demonstrated ability to lift giant turtle-like objects in his battle with blastoise). The Koopa, with his arms bound, is helpless as Charizard flies up into the air and tosses him outside the arena. Bowser is disqualified.

Sakura and Peach fall out of the air, having been partially lifted off the ground by Bowser's inhalation. Sakura uses this to her advantage, using the momentum of the fall to smash the ground with even more force than usual. The ground around the Mario brothers is ripped apart, sending them both flying. Even if they are not knocked out of the arena, they are stunned enough for Sakura, with her quick ninja speed and reflexes, to smash them out of the arena. Even if Mario and Luigi do manage to mount a counter attack, they are quickly dispatched from above by Charizard's flame attacks.

Team Con wins.

2. Operation Shield.

Charizard, who is immune to Bowser's inhalation, spreads his wings as wide as possible, shielding the two girls from Bowser, who then proceed to jump into a pipe bringing them to the other side of the planet. They then proceed to quickly move behind the Mario brothers and eliminate them from behind (Sakura, who can move extremely fast, would traverse the tiny planet in seconds at most, with Peach not far behind). The twin's jumping skills would be no match for Sakura's professional Taijutsu techniques, and with Sakura's immense strength they would be smashed from the arena, or left with broken necks in seconds. Even if they were to defeat Sakura somehow, Peach, who is not far behind could defeat them using her 'rage' technique.

Meanwhile, Bowser faces off against an enraged dragon. The two would probably be fairly evenly matched, their flame attacks having little effect on each other, they would go in for close range bashing. Bowser has his large bulk and smashing attacks, while Charizard has his steel wing and skull bash attacks. Regardless of the final outcome, Sakura would eventually catch up with the two giants, and use her medical abilities to heal Charizard (Or, if peach won she could move close to Charizard and extend her 'Calm' bubble around Charizard). The newly healed Charizard would then have little trouble defeating the worn out Bowser.

Team Con wins.

Flaws in Pro's plans;

1. Bowser would be unable to inhale a pipe from the planet, since he can only inhale objects which are human sized or larger- pipes are obviously larger, since they require people to go inside them. Plus, they are fixed into the ground. With that is mind, even if Bowser were to inhale both Peach and Sakura, he would have to eliminate himself along with them, leaving two plumbers to face off with an enraged dragon. Charizard would easily win- all he would have to do is stay at a distance and blast them with wide range flame attacks like fire spin and overheat (which would be impossible to dodge), while the twins would have to rely on mighty meteor, an attack that doesn't even always work, and which Charizard could avoid using aerial acrobatics.

2. None of Pro's team would even consider attacking Peach. Let's look at he terms of the debate: 'All team members are still subjected to their own emotions, natures, or other psychological restrictions, however'. It is stated that all team members are absolutely loyal to the team leader- however, given their varying degrees of obsession, none of Pro's team would ever attack Peach. Mario is obvious- he is so in love with the damsel he constantly risks his life against lava, and all kinds of deadly creatures to save her. It is revealed that Bowser has a big crush on Peach in the Paper Mario Series, so he wouldn't. Luigi, while not quite as close to her as Mario, would hardly be likely to attack the benevolent queen of Mushroom Kingdom.

Pointing out that they can fight in SSBB is irrelevant- it is a series outside of all cannons, in which characters who would never consider fighting one another do so. It should also be noted that in the actual story mode of SSBB Peach and Mario do not fight- that they can do so in multiplayer or other game modes proves nothing, because in these the actual natures of the characters are not taken into account, unlike in this debate.

Given that all my strategies fail, therefore, the match would end in a stalemate, neither Team Pro or Peach willing to attack the other. Furthermore, team Pro would hesitate a lot during the match since they do not want to harm Peach, giving a decisive advantage to team Con.

3. Pro's team cannot use magic windows. (mistakenly called 'magic mirrors' in Pro's round)

To quote the rules: 'There is no instant transportation of any kind'

To quote Pro's wiki entry for the magic window: 'When using this special technique, Mario and Luigi jump into a window, which teleports them close to a random opponent'

Pro must revise his plan of attack in order to avoid violating his own rules.


With that, I turn it back to Pro.
Debate Round No. 2


I will now refute my opponent's strategies:

1. Hit 'em fast and hard.

If Charizard were to get right next to Bowser as Bowser is inhaling, Charizard's head would end up in Bowser's mouth. Bowser would then bite down hard, snapping Charizard's neck and killing Charizard.

Bowser also has the ability to double his own weight with his Body Slam. Therefore, after almost escaping Gateway Planet's gravitational pull, he would send both Charizard and Bowser slamming into the ground, with Bowser crushing Charizard underneath the weight of two Koopa Kings, crushing and killing him.

Now, even if Charizard were to get in a position to toss Bowser into the air, he would still have to throw Bowser. Now, gripping something and flying with it is one story, but tossing that same thing even higher is another. Charizard probably wouldn't be able to do it. Additionally, before Bowser moved an inch, he would Body Slam his way back to Gateway Planet, destroying whoever happened to be below him.

If none of the above work, then after Bowser would be eliminated, Mario and Luigi would use a Retry Clock, allowing them to try the entire fight all over again, but instead of inhaling, Bowser would punch Charizard's lights out.

Now, Sakura and Peach would not be lifted at all, as Bowser's mouth would be plugged by Charizard's head.

If Sakura ever smashes the ground to rip apart the ground around Mario and Luigi, the twins would jump, avoiding the blow completely. They would then get out a Snack Basket, and Luigi would counter with his own ground-shaking attack, eliminating both Peach and Sakura. Bowser would come out of the air, as well, and follow up with a powerful punch.

Also note that both Mario and Luigi use a Big Shell, so the first three actual attacks against them would do nothing, and the A-OK Wear prevents stunning. Thanks to the Gumption Socks, Mario and Luigi would have to be eliminated at roughly the same time.

Any attempt to close in on Mario and Luigi would be met with a hammer.

If Charizard were to ever attack with flames, Mario and Luigi would run and dodge, assuming that Charizard actually survived being bitten in the neck and crushed.

2. Operation Shield

Charizard may be large enough to avoid Bowser's inhalation, although his head is not, so if Charizard gets too close to Bowser, his head is doomed.

If Peach and Sakura ever get in one pipe, Bowser would eat the second pipe, landing Peach and Sakura inside Bowser, making them useless for battle. If they ever come back out, they would be attacked by perfectly poised hammers. Peach, being more cartoonish, would be midgetized, like Mario when hit by Luigi's hammer. Sakura, however, would end up with a broken skull.

Mario and Luigi could still avoid Sakura with running and hammers, and then finish her off along with Peach with a Mighty Meteor. I have already outlined how drilling would spare them from Peach's rage.

Bowser is not damaged at all by Charizard's flames, even being powered up by them. Bowser's well-timed counter punch and ducking would prevent Charizard from ever landing a hit, as Skull Bash can't get through Bowser's punch, and Steel Wing can be ducked. If Charizard ever pauses for Sakura to heal him, Bowser would just eat both Peach and Sakura, easy. Bowser does not wear out from fighting, because Charizard cannot land a single hit; besides, thanks to his Intruder Fangs, Bowser can heal himself with Drumsticks without pausing in his assault, so Charizard would be destroyed, and Sakura and Peach unconscious and eaten.

Apparent flaws in my plan:

1a. Bowser has been proven to be able to inhale Warp Pipes, evidenced by the collection of Warp Pipes that ended up in Bowser's Pipe Yard.

1b. Bowser would still be available to fight Charizard after eating Peach and Sakura, because he only has to eliminate himself at the end. After absorbing one Fire attack meant for Mario and Luigi, Bowser would be able to launch himself at Charizard as a spike ball for a tussle in the air, eventually knocking Charizard out of the air. If Charizard tries to snipe Mario and Luigi from a distance, they can drill to avoid it, forcing Charizard to come to the ground for direct attacks, exposing him to Mighty Meteor.

Mighty Meteor is incredibly fast, launching itself with perfect accuracy at the enemy within a second after contact with a hammer. Remember, Mario and Luigi have Excellent!! timing, which means that they don't fail and their attacks. At Rainbow Rank, they're very proficient with their attacks. Aerial acrobatics can't dodge something as quick and large as a Rock-based Mighty Meteor.

2m. Mario may risk his life for Peach sometimes, but that doesn't mean he won't attack her when necessary. There's nothing to indicate an actual refusal to harm Peach during fights in which they are pitted against each other. He's perfectly willing to throw Green Shells at Peach during Mario Kart, knocking her off cliffs, and he's perfectly willing to Smash Peach off the stage in SSB.

2l. Peach is hardly benevolent if she's going into a fit of rage against Luigi. Also, see above.

2b. Bowser once decided to imprison Peach in a stain-glass window in Super Mario 64. He also sent his minions to defeat her in Super Princess Peach. He's perfectly willing to knock her unconscious, just not kill her. If Bowser ever goes into Fury, he's likely to be willing to attack anybody, including Princess Peach. Also, see above.

2ssb. In the story mode, it is apparent that Mario cares about Peach (he tries to bash in Link's brains over her, not nearly as cool as Link trying to spear Mario's head over Zelda). However, in the Stadium, even if you use Peach, Mario will still attack her. Although this canon may be different from mine, it is our most reliable information on the subject.

Nobody hesitated in SSB or Mario Kart over anything. I would also like to point out that Peach would be unable to attack Mario and Luigi, and would not permit Sakura to attack Mario and Luigi, unless Mario and Luigi are capable of attacking Peach.

3. Okay, I will not use Magic Mirrors. Point taken. Instead, Mario and Luigi will use Yoo Hoo Cannons.

In conclusion:

My opponent's only two plans to take down Bowser involve throwing him away (impossible, as explained) and having Charizard fight him to the death (which Bowser would win, given his Drumsticks, ability to attack twice at once, and ability to counter all of Charizard's attacks).

Mario and Luigi would be able to dodge anything by jumping, drilling, running around, and countering with hammers.

Bowser would be able to eat Sakura and Peach, knocking them unconscious (an idea not actually refuted by my opponent), and even Charizard's head if he were foolish enough to get close enough to allow that to happen.

Given past examples, Bowser is definitely willing to attack Peach, and Mario and Luigi probably are, as well.


I shall now defend both my strategies, and maintain the flaws in Pro's plans.

1. Hit 'em fast and hard

Charizard simply uses his Skull Bash attack. Bowser, trying to catch Charizard's head in his mouth, instead gets one of Charizard's most brutal physical attacks in the face. Dazed, and with his teeth smashed out, Bowser is even easier prey for my plan. If Bowser did manage it, Charizard could let off a flamethrower directly down Bowser's throat. He might be resistant to fire from the outside, but is unlikely to survive being burned from the inside out.

In the wiki Pro provided, , no mention is made of Bowser being able to double his weight. However, he claims in the the comments section that something like 'he can double his own weight' is said in the game. Apart from the extremely dubious nature of this evidence, Pro admits that Bowser only doubles his weight once the move is initiated. Since Charizard has him grasped firmly in his claws, Bowser could not do this. Charizard tosses Bowser when he is very close to the edge of the arena, so Bowser has no time to initiate his move once thrown.

Regardless, there is no reason to think that even double Bowser's weight would be a problem, even for tossing off the planet. My reasoning for this is simple. Mario, in multiple games, has shown the ability to grab Bowser by his tail and toss him tens of feet with little apparent effort. Mario is an ordinary plumber, apart from his jumping skills and various items, and does not have any kind of extraordinary strength. Therefore, we must conclude that Bowser is in fact much lighter than he appears. Charizard, who is a large dragon and much stronger than an ordinary human, would have no trouble at all throwing him from the arena.

Since Charizard is now using Skull Bash, if Bowser tried to punch him he'd just get a broken knuckle, and again would be captured and thrown from the arena. Furthermore, it is doubtful the twins would have time to use a retry clock, since by this point they would already be engaged in battle with Peach and Sakura.

Sakura and Peach would be lifted, in the small amount of time Charizard is moving towards Bowser. Plus, Charizard's head would not plug Bowser's mouth.

Sakura smashing the ground would send rubble flying everywhere, smashing into the twins regardless of whether they jump. Additionally, it would destroy the ground completely so the twins would probably lose their footing on the loose rubble left over anyway. If they do manage a counter attack, Peach would make herself invincible to avoid the blow, and Sakura, as a highly trained ninja, would have no trouble avoiding it. Bowser is already eliminated.

Even using all of the items Pro lists, it is unlikely that Sakura and Peach, who both have vastly superior destructive powers than either Luigi or Mario, as well as Sakura being the only professionally trained fighter of the bunch, would lose. Any hammer would be no match for Sakura's punches, which have the power to destroy small mountains with a single swing, and Peach's rage power would defeat the twins quite quickly. Furthermore, the twins would be quickly destroyed by Charizard from above- they would hardly be able to dodge powerful, wide range flame attacks from above while simultaneously fighting off Sakura and Peach.

2. Operation Shield.

Even if Charizard's head did end up in Bowser's mouth (and pro has given no reason to think that the vacuum mushroom functions in this way), Charizard could let off a flamethrower directly down Bowser's throat.

I shall address pipes below.

Again, the twins would simply be no match for the two girls. Hiding from Peach's attack by hiding underground is hardly a good idea against an opponent that can utterly destroy everything under the ground in a large radius. I would even say doing so would be suicidal. Hammers would be no match for Sakura's strength or Peach's rage, and mighty meteor (which doesn't always work, as already pointed out) would be dodged/reflected with invincibility. That's assuming the twins even live long enough to use it.

Pro seems to have a massive over confidence in Bowser's fighting skills. In fact, throughout the games he has shown himself to be clumsy, predictable and easy to defeat. On the other hand, Charizard is a skilled combatant, whose fighting rage would easily overwhelm the slow, arrogant Bowser. Bowser would hardly be able to dodge the lithe and powerful Charizard's moves, and would eventually be defeated even without the help of the two girls.

That said, Sakura can heal from a distance so Bowser would most certainly not be able to eat her while she is restoring Charizard. She can do this almost indefinitely, while Bowser's items would run out. Either that, or she could simply sneak up behind Bowser while he is fighting and grab his tail and toss him off the planet.

If Peach came to help (the two girls could do it together, of course), she go behind Charizard to heal him so Bowser couldn't get her, or she could use rage and attack to help, or use joy to blow him out of the arena.

The flaws still stand:

1a. It is physically impossible for Bowser to eat warp pipes, by Pro's own definition. Therefore, we must look for other explanations. It is clear from Mario and Luigi that Bowser has an extremely odd, cartoony internal structure. The pipes must be part of that. Or, if this is unsatisfactory, there must be another explanation we don't know about. The point is, Pro's is impossible so it must be disregarded.

1b. This is all completely beside the point, since Pro has not refuted either of my strategies to avoid Sakura or Peach being inhaled. There is no scenario left in either my strategies or Pro's rebuttals for Charizard having to fight all of Con's team at once.

2m. Once again, Pro brings up more non-cannon games to substantiate his point. Again, in neither Mario Kart nor SSBB, are the natures of the characters taken into account when they battle. In this debate, it is clearly stated that they are. Furthermore, in Mario Kart none of the characters actually die when harmed, so that is a special circumstance.

2I. Peach would have no problem going against Bowser, unlike vice-versa, and she could use her Joy attack to blow Mario and Luigi out of the arena without hurting them. Besides, you are the one who thinks they would have no problem attacking one another.

2b. Fine, but he would hesitate in going all out while Peach was there, and that would make him an easier target for team Con. Plus, he would try to control himself to avoid harming Peach.

2ssb. How is it our most reliable source on the subject? It's a completely different cannon (not really a cannon at all, in fact), and is the only point in that game or any other in which Mario shows willingness to even fight Peach. Plus, it's just an arbitrary character assignment, not part of the story at all. Pro is going to have to come up with better evidence than that.

This is addressed above. If Peach were to stop other team members from fighting, she would just be lied to and told our team is not going to use lethal force. By the time she found out, the match would be over (worst comes to worst, Sakura ends up knocking out Peach-none of my plans rest on her anyway).

3. Pro concedes this.

Pro's plans to inhale both Sakura and Peach lie in ruins, Pro drastically overestimates Bowser's combat ability- team Pro in fact has a significant advantage in this regard, and none of Pro's many fancy items would be able to defeat any of my team. Team Pro would hesitate all the time to avoid harming Peach, while Charizard and Sakura move in with deadly efficiency.
Debate Round No. 3


1. Hit 'em fast and hard

Charizard needs a running charge to use Skull Bash [1]. This gives Bowser ample time to realize the Skull Bash and counter with a punch. My opponent claims that Bowser would get a broken knuckle. However, he was even able to punch his overpowered Dark self, and his knuckles weren't broken. The result would be the cancelling of both attacks. This would halt Charizard, allowing Bowser to follow up with another punch in the stomach, eventually KOing Charizard.

Bowser's body was designed to contain fire, as evidenced by the Flame Pipe. He would easily survive. Additionally, if Charizard's neck is bitten in half, fire won't even reach Bowser's insides.

Apparently, no online source is available to evidence Toadbert's mention of doubling weight, although I am sure that that is what he said in the game. There is no reason why Bowser could not initiate a Body Slam while grabbed by Charizard.

If Bowser uses Body Slam right as Charizard lets go, he'll easily careen back to Gateway Planet.

My opponent calls Mario "an ordinary plumber." This is false. Mario has been demonstrated to have super strength multiple times [2]. Charizard is actually much weaker than Mario.

Now, if Charizard ever does appear to be succeeding, the Jump Helmet can allow Mario to jump powerfully on Charizard's head, knocking Charizard out of the sky and back to the ground.

When Charizard charges with Skull Bash, Bowser would cancel his Vacuum, so Peach and Sakura would not be lifted.

Any rubble sent at Mario and Luigi would be destroyed by hammers. They would both be able to jump to safe ground, easily avoiding attacks until Bowser forced Charizard back down, in which case Bowser would eat Peach and Sakura easily.

My opponent claims that Sakura and Peach have more destructive power than Mario and Luigi. However, Peach is rather slow with Rage, and cannot catch up to the twins, quickly running out of Emotion. A hammer may not counter a punch, but a jump on Sakura's head would. Charizard's fire would be easily dodged. Mario and Luigi are far too agile for my opponent's entire team to catch them.

In the end, Bowser would have eaten both Sakura and Peach. He would then curl up into a spike ball to knock Charizard out of the air, allowing for a Mighty Meteor finish.

2. Operation Shield

Bowser's throat could easily withstand a flamethrower to allow for Bowser to chomp Charizard's neck.

Mario and Luigi will just run around until Peach's Rage runs out, allowing for the twins to eliminate her, Sakura, and Charizard with a Mighty Meteor. I have already pointed out that the Meteor's speed does not allow for dodging, and how Mario and Luigi's Excellent!! timing does not allow for misses.

Bowser is far from clumsy, except during his temporary overweight state. Bowser easily defeated all enemies pitted against him by Fawful.

If Charizard charges in with Skull Bash, PUNCH!
If Charizard dives in with Steel Wing, DUCK! (Or PUNCH!, if the dive is low enough.)
(Note that when ducking, Bowser retracts into his shell, with his shell countering any aerial attacks.)
Charizard has no moves that cannot be countered by Bowser. Bowser, however, has flame breath, which can do minor damage to Charizard, adding up over time.

If Sakura and Peach attempt to help, Mario and Luigi would destroy all three with a Mighty Meteor, and Bowser ends up eating Peach and Sakura.

My opponent claims that Sakura has unlimited healing powers. Such an unlimited ability would make her easily above street-level. If Sakura tried to toss Bowser off the planet, he would turn around and punch her. Should she actually succeed in grabbing Bowser, Mario and Luigi could stop her with a Green Shell.

Is there any evidence that Peach being behind Charizard can heal him? This would be extremely limited healing, given Peach's limited Emotion power.

In conclusion, Bowser would dodge all of Charizard's attacks, retaliating with punches and flames, eventually KOing Bowser. Sakura and Peach can be eaten.


1a. A warp pipe is only wider than Mario, not taller, so it's about the size of a fat human. It can easily be eaten by definition.
It would make absolutely no sense for Bowser to be born with warp pipes leading all over the Mushroom Kingdom in his body. It seems much more likely that the pipes were present at the meeting at the beginning of the game, as quick access to get anywhere by those at Peach's Castle, and Bowser ate them all in his second invasion.

1b. Bowser will eat Sakura and Peach whenever possible. Should my opponent leave any opportunity for this to occur, both of them will be promptly eliminated, leaving a fairly doomed Charizard.

2m. My opponent brought up Super Mario 64, so it's fairly obvious that we are skirting the lines of canons. Mario Kart is officially part of the overall Mario series, as well. I have already shown Mario's nature to be evident in the Subspace Emissary storyline.
In Mario Kart, characters get burned by lava. Additionally, in this case, Peach only needs to be knocked unconscious (much better than being burned by lava).

2l. Peach's Joy attack does not send things at speeds of 11km/s.

2b. For inhaling, Bowser's goal would be to eat Peach, so of course he'd go all out. Peach wouldn't be harmed while eating, but merely knocked unconscious. She'd obviously survive, as nobody died when Bowser ate them. Ever.

2ssb. Mario is always willing to fight Peach if they are on opposite teams, which is the same scenario as this one.
My opponent claims that I need better evidence, but most games don't pit Mario and Peach against each other, so unless games like Mario Kart and SSB count, neither side has evidence.

Peach would obviously tell that Sakura is lying once she starts pounding the ground destructively. With Peach knocked out, I wouldn't have to worry about her, as well.

Ultimately, one other thing to remember is the Retry Clock. Mario, Luigi, or Bowser could use this right before they fade into unconsciousness (they don't seem to be able to die), allowing for a retry, in which case, my team would start by initiating a different plan, with Bowser knowing Charizard's moves ahead of time and whatnot. This would allow my team to easily adapt to Team CON.

There are many points in which Peach and Sakura can both be eaten. Bowser is not clumsy, and can easily take on Charizard. Mario and Luigi, with their Excellent!! timing, can use their "fancy" items to deal tremendous damage to Team CON. Mario and Luigi are obviously willing to knock Peach unconscious for victory in games, this being no different.



Thanks to mongeese for an excellent round- although I think my case is stronger, I'll concede a number of fair points on his side.

1. Hit 'em fast and hard

Since Charizard immediately uses Skull Bash at the same time as Bowser uses his mushroom to try and suck in the two girls, it is doubtful Bowser would realise what Charizard is doing and have time to counter, especially since Bowser is quite a slow and clumsy fighter and would be concentrating on the two girls. If Charizard launched himself quickly, Bowser wouldn't have time to defend himself. If he did manage it, although I'll concede the possibility that the two would cancel each other out, the collision of the two attacks would knock the two combatants apart so Bowser wouldn't be able to follow up with a punch. If this happened, Charizard would hold Bowser while Sakura went around behind him, grabbed his tail and tossed him out of the arena. Meanwhile, Peach would engage the two twins, blowing them out of the arena with Joy.

The flame pipe is just the area inside Bowser that allows him to breathe fire- , it doesn't go anywhere towards supporting the view that Bowser could survive being flamed from the inside out. Bowser's throat might be flame resistant, but there is no reason to suppose all his internal organs would be. Charizard is heading straight towards Bowser at this point, so if the shroom sucked him in (and Pro STILL hasn't given any evidence that it can be used in that way), he would be positioned with his long head down Bowser's throat, choking him and in perfect position to unleash a barrage of flames.

No evidence supports Pro's claim that Bowser can double his weight. Bowser must be able to flip in the air to initiate it, which he would not be able to do while captured by Charizard. Again, Charizard tosses Bowser right at the edge of the planet- Bowser is unlikely to have the incredible timing required to ground pound right away. Besides, Charizard could just lift Bowser so he is just out of the arena without letting go of him. Then Bowser would be disqualified and Charizard could continue.

Alright, I'll concede that Mario is stronger than I gave him credit for, but I think it's an over exaggeration to claim that Charizard is weaker than Mario. It's difficult to get an appraisal of what Charizard's limit it, but it isn't a stretch to say that it would be very high, considering his large bulk and ability to carry large objects (like Blastoise) without apparent effort.

Mario wouldn't be able to help Charizard, because he would already be engaged by Sakura and Peach by this point. If he tried it, Sakura would either simply jump up and knock him out the air, or throw kunai at him.

Bowser would still lift Sakura and Peach at the beginning, before he realised what Charizard was doing.

There is no way Mario and Luigi could be fast enough to knock down all the rubble with hammers. Sakura would cause widespread devastation around them, so they wouldn't be able to jump far enough away to avoid it. Bowser would already be eliminated by Charizard, one way or another, and if Bowser did make it back Sakura could just grab him by the tail and toss him off the planet. She would know about Bowser's technique by now and would stay behind him to avoid it.

I would like to see some evidence that the twins are fast enough to avoid all attacks thrown at them. As far as I can tell, from SSBB and other games, the twins aren't any faster than other characters, and can't even jump that high. They wouldn't be able to avoid an unexpected attack from above. Any hammers brought on Sakura would be smashed apart, any attempt to jump on Sakura's head would be met by grabbing his leg and being tossed from the arena. As soon as the twin get close to Sakura, they would be tossed from the arena immediately.

Bowser is already defeated. If he did somehow manage to eat the two girls, Sakura could just use her immense strength to bust them out, then toss Bowser off the planet.

2. Operation Shield.

Bowser would be incinerated from the inside out.

Even if the twins could avoid Peach using their (alleged) speed, she could just use joy to blow them off the planet. Additionally, while avoiding they would be wide open for Charizard's attack. If the twins did manage to let off a mighty meteor, it would be unlikely to finish them off in only one attack, doesn't always work, and Pro has given no evidence that it could not be dodged. Charizard could let off an overheat against it to counter it.

Again, from my experience Bowser is quite a slow and clumsy fighter, for instance allowing Mario to run circles around him in battle, or being unable to counter Mario's jump attacks in Bowser's inside story. He is simply hindered by his size, even if raw power is enough to overcome Fawful's henchmen.

If Bowser retreated into his shell, it would be child's play for either Charizard or Sakura to remove him from the arena, because he would be defenseless. Bowser would not be able to counter all of Charizard's physical attacks, and Charizard has an aerial advantage that he can use to smash into Bowser from above.

The twins are already eliminated, one way or another at this point, and if they did try to help Peach would stop them by blowing them away with Joy.

I certainly never said that Sakura's healing powers are unlimited. All I said was that she could continue doing for an almost indefinite amount of time barring interference. She cannot do so forever, and nor can she heal grievous wounds immediately. Besides, she must give up all her own battle usefulness while doing so, so it is hardly an above street level ability.

Peach's Calm creates a bubble that heals the things inside it. There is no reason in theory that she should not be able to do it. If she couldn't then she could just use rage and come to Charizard's aid in battle, eventually overwhelming the Koopa.

Mario and Luigi are eliminated at this point, and even if they weren't Sakura would just toss them from the arena, and then proceed to grab bowser's tail and finish him. Or Peach could engage them while Sakura does so.


1a. The warp pipe on the planet reaches all the way from one end to the other, unlike other pipes which teleport people. This is evidenced by the fact that you see Mario's shadow moving from one end of the planet to the other when you jump into it. The pipe is far too big for Bowser to eat/inhale. Even if it weren't we still couldn't see how far it goes underground, so Pro cannot say that it is shorter than Mario.

1b. By the same token, Sakura's immense strength means that if any of Team Pro's characters let their guard down for a second they would be smashed from the arena. Besides, Sakura, upon seeing Bowser's ability, would be careful not to get caught. She could avoid it easily by using clone techniques to fool Bowser.

2m. Yeah, but Mario Kart is a spin off game with no story element. It hardly counts as evidence for the willingness of characters to do things. Pro's evidence from the subspace emissary is irrelevant as already shown. In MK, character's spawn again totally unharmed, and unburned by lava. Again, different rules apply there than in this match. All of Pro's team's hesitance to attack Peach would lead to constant hesitating, while Peach would have no trouble attacking Bowser. This would give a decisive advantage to team Con.

2I. Uh, how do you know? The attack sends enemies pretty far in the game. Even if it didn't it would blow away anyone near, eliminating them for the time being. So whatever strategy was being carried out would be finished and then they could be turned back too.

2ssb. I have already provided evidence-you are just ignoring it. Sakura would just say she is attacking Bowser, or would be careful not to harm the twins. None of my plans really hinge on Peach anyway. The twins are tossed, not knocked out, so no retry clock.
Debate Round No. 4


I would like to thank Kinesis for this wonderful debate. Now, to finish it...

1. Hit 'em fast and hard

Bowser already ate the Mushroom. The effect is permanent. Now, if using Vacuum prevents Bowser from executing a retaliatory punch, he could use a Retry Clock to start everything over again (conceded point), so that he actually could punch Charizard at the beginning.
My opponent constantly calls Bowser slow and clumsy, but prevents no evidence from the Mario & Luigi series. Note that Bowser is actually taller, slimmer, and faster in the Mario & Luigi series than in most other Mario games, being able to pull off a full-powered retaliatory punch in an instant.
Bowser has been shown to have very powerful legs in the games. By planting his legs, he would easily resist any knockback.
My opponent claims that Sakura could throw Bowser out of the arena. However, for a character to be eliminated in such a way, that character would have to be launched at 11.2 km/s, by Rule 1. I doubt that Sakura has such strength. To prove that Sakura has such strength, my opponent would have to source a situation in which Sakura throws somebody of about Bowser's girth numerous kilometers in one second. This is practically impossible.
(Note that the reason Bowser could actually escape would be because he can constantly propel himself while in the air.)
Peach especially would be unable to launch other characters at such high speeds.

Now, to launch fire down Bowser's throat, Charizard's head would have to be in Bowser's mouth. Bowser could easily shut his mouth and crush Charizard's neck, killing Charizard and preventing any fire from being unleashed.

Okay, if Bowser's weight does not double, how does Bowser suddenly come crushing to the ground? At the very least, Bowser picks up enough force to suddenly crash back into the ground, which would sufficiently disrupt Charizard's plan.
My opponent claims that Bowser cannot flip while being grabbed by Charizard. There is no reason to think this, as there is nothing Charizard can do to stop Bowser from flipping.
As for timing, Bowser, being of the Final Boss Rank, has Excellent!! timing, and would definitely nail the return.
Bowser cannot leave the "arena" without Charizard, because to be eliminated, Bowser would have to exit the planet's gravitational pull, which would be impossible as long as Charizard still held onto him. Charizard would end up leaving along with Bowser, at the very least.

The second Charizard tries to take off, Luigi would pull out the Jump Helmet for Mario to get to Charizard. This only takes a few seconds, and Charizard would be knocked out of the sky before Sakura got to them. Additionally, thanks to their Big Shells, Mario and Luigi would be unaffected by Sakura's first three major hits, long enough to get to Charizard.

There is no need for Mario and Luigi to knock down the rubble with hammers. They would merely need to dodge. Bowser would come crashing back down to the planet with Body Slam to engage Sakura. Sakura cannot throw Bowser at 11km/s, so Bowser would merely be spinning around the planet at an extremely fast rate, until he Body Slams back into the planet, crushing Sakura. Besides, my opponent has not questioned the Green Shell being kicked at Sakura as she attempts to throw Bowser, disrupting Sakura's concentration and freeing Bowser, allowing him to eat Sakura.

My opponent asks how Mario and Luigi are fast enough to avoid Sakura, but the better question is how Sakura is fast enough to catch up to Mario and Luigi. To show how fast Mario and Luigi can be, I would like to present Video 1, Pocket Chomp. Just watch around (1:00) to see how fast Mario and Luigi go upon being chased. I've gotten to the point where they run across the length of the screen in a quarter of a second.
I would like to point out that as both Brothers wear Gumption Socks, they would have to be eliminated together, as one will revive soon after being knocked unconscious (they really don't die, as conceded by my opponent) as long as the other remains conscious.
After Sakura tires out and runs out of chakra, unleashing a barrage of items on her would be a piece of cake.

My opponent's only plans for actually eliminating Bowser involve getting him off the planet, but he can punch Charizard to stop anything, Body Slam will flawlessly get him back to the ground in no time, and Sakura can't throw him with enough force to knock him off of the planet.
My opponent contends that Sakura will bust out of Bowser's body. However, he has already conceded that Sakura would be unconscious upon entering Bowser's body, which prevents any breakouts. Additionally, Sakura would shrink upon being eaten, losing her massive strength.

2. Operation Shield

If Charizard's head ends up in Bowser's mouth, it will soon be detached from Charizard's body by teeth.

I have challenged my opponent's claim that Joy has a launching force of 11k/s in the Flaws section.

See Video 2 (0:37) for how fast Mighty Meteor travels. As I have said at least three times before, Mario and Luigi have Excellent!! timing, and therefore will not fail.
Mighty Meteor is a rock, and therefore would only require at the most one complete cycle to defeat Charizard, double-weak to Rock-type attacks.
My opponent intends to counter with Overheat. However, as Mario and Luigi have plenty of SP, being Rainbow Rank and all, they have tons of Mighty Meteors to use, while Charizard will quickly lose Overheat's power.

My opponent's "experience" tells him that Bowser is slow and clumsy, but Bowser has obviously gotten faster and more agile by M&l:BiS [1]. Now, enemies in the game do not counter, but if one were allowed to control Bowser against Mario and Luigi, Bowser could simply duck to avoid a jump. It was not clumsiness, but his state at that point in the game, that forced him to accept the jump.

My opponent calls launching a giant turtle at 11 kilometers per second "child's play." This is obviously absurd. Besides, Bowser could come back out of his shell rather quickly to pull off a punch.
I have already explained how Bowser can counter all of Charizard's physical attacks, making my opponent's statement to the contrary one out of ignorance.
If Charizard attacks Bowser from above, Bowser can repel Charizard and damage him with his spikes.

My opponent gives no reason to think that Mario and Luigi are actually KO'd by anything.

As Sakura must pause while healing, she becomes easy prey for Bowser.

Peach's Calm will quickly run out thanks to the limits of Emotion, making its effects insignificant.

If Peach were to use Rage, Bowser would roll up into his shell and roll around the planet similar to his attack in Super Mario Galaxy, dodging Peach until Rage runs out and crashing into Charizard when Peach leaves him.


1a. As my opponent's plan still involves Peach and Sakura exiting the pipe Bowser is attempting to eat, the pipe would not move, but Peach and Sakura would fly right into Bowser's mouth.

1b. 11 kilometers per second is far too fast for Sakura. And what's this talk of clone techniques? They're unsourced, and I wasn't aware that she could even use such techniques.

2m. UTW, by the same line, is a spin-off event.

2i. Mario and Luigi would be flying through the air, eventually landing back down to the ground. Emotion would be wasted. That is all that would occur.

2s. These contentions are refuted above.

In conclusion, Bowser can easily defeat Charizard head-to-head, and Body Slam prevents tossing him away.
Mario and Luigi can easily avoid Peach and Sakura until they run out of Emotion/Chakra.
Bowser can eat both Peach and Sakura, easily.
Team CON cannot send things at 11 km/s.

Thank you for this debate.

1. (Search "treadmill" for Bowser's extreme marathon on the treadmill.)


Thanks to mongeese for a great first Team War! Time to end it once and for all...

1. As far as I can tell, no rules allow preparation time, so Bowser hadn't already eaten the mushroom-indeed, doing so would delay him even more, stopping him from managing his counter attack. Pro's unsporting use of the retry clock has, I suppose, made the scenario where Bowser and Charizard directly face off the one that is likely to be played out. So the crucial question is - would Bowser have time to execute a counter punch? Well, in Mario and Luigi Bowser can use a small punch quite quickly, but must draw his arm back and power up (which sometimes fails) to get it a powerful punch, such as would be needed to counter Charizard's skull Bash attack. I simply don't think, if Charizard went at full speed, that Bowser would have time to pull off such an attack.

Pro doubts that Sakura has the strength to launch Bowser away from the planet. Skip halfway along the video of Sakura vs Sasori provided, and you can see Sakura smashing enormous, solid iron blocks across a huge cavern. These are far larger than Bowser (who Pro has pointed out is smaller and leaner in his chosen cannon), and are made of a far heavier material. She also does this while injured, so she might manage even more while fresh. There is no reason at all to suppose than someone with such strength would have trouble launching Bowser from the planet. If, even considering all this, Sakura still couldn't manage it, she would simply throw Bowser up, then jump up and punch him the rest of the way.

If the mushroom really does function to inhale small smaller parts of a larger thing in, which it probably doesn't as conceded by Pro, then as pointed out Charizard's long neck would be stuck down Bowser's throat, choking him and preventing him from biting. Pro has conceded that Charizard's flames would destroy Bowser, so this is the end for the overgrown Koopa.

I don't know, using some weird messed up video game physics. No evidence = no plan. I don't see how Bowser would be able to flip if he were firmly in Charizard's grasp. Charizard would just hold him to prevent it. I don't know how good Bowser's timing is, but I doubt it's enough to perfectly stop himself right at the edge. Even if it weren't he could toss Bowser, then hit him with another attack to make sure he leaves the atmosphere.

Sakura isn't waiting around while Charizard captures Bowser-she's smashing the ground and knocking the twins off balance. There's no way they would have time to save Bowser before Sakura's attack was onto them. The twin's Big Shell would be disabled immediately by the bits of rubble flying into them.

The twin's wouldn't be able to dodge thousands of bits of rock smashing into them from all around- it just isn't possible. Sakura can likely throw Bowser fast enough, and even if she didn't she could just jump up after him and smash him the rest of the way. She could easily use a substitution technique to avoid the shell.

If you actually watch Pro's video, neither Mario or Luigi are actually going that fast. On the other hand the ninjas in Naruto can move so fast they appear to vanish and reappear to the untrained eye. Neither Mario or Luigi would stand a chance. It takes hours for Sakura to run out of Chakra, as evidenced by her epic fight with Sasori, and she could easily wipe the floor with both twins in that time.

Sakura wouldn't be knocked unconscious- in M&L Bowser inhales multiple enemies which remain conscious. She wouldn't lose her strength upon being shrinked- it would simply be on a smaller scale. She could bust a small hole in Bowser then escape, returning to normal.

2. Operation Shield.

Bowser is choked, then incinerated from the inside out.

Joy might not be able to launch Bowser from the arena, but Peach could still blow them into Charizard's arms, who then does the same thing with the twins as with Bowser. They would certainly not be able to stop him. Again, viewers are free to look at Pro's video, but it doesn't actually look like they can do it that fast. Besides, it takes them a while to power it up, and this isn't a turn based match where enemies wait for you to do that. They'd be crushed before they managed it.

Okay, having looked at clips it would seems that Bowser has lost some weight for M&L, but this still doesn't mean he is lithe enough to dodge Charizard's attacks. Plus, Pro has no actual evidence that he can dodge attacks, since he never does in the game.

I have already addressed Sakura. She would just kick his shell like a football, launching it from the arena. Saying Bowser can duck doesn't amount to saying how Bowser can avoid every one of Charizard's attacks- Obviously, Charizard can as well so the point is moot. What matters is which would be likely to beat the other. Charizard would have the advantage since he can use aerial attacks like Sky attack, which Bowser's spikes couldn't stop.

The twins are KO'd by Peach's rage/Charizard's overheat/ Sakura smashing their heads in (or off the planet). Sakura is hardly easy prey for Bowser, since she can avoid attacks using substitution and move far faster than Bowser. And how does Bowser attack Sakura while under attack by Charizard? Peach could heal all his wounds, giving Charizard a huge advantage, since both would be damaged at that point.

Charizard would just hold Bowser while Peach uses her rage attacks on him. Bowser would succumb to the attacks before too long.


1a. And how does Bowser run all the way around the planet, while avoiding Charizard, before the girls come out the other end? There's no way Bowser is fast enough.

1b. Sakura can use ordinary clones- clones which can fool enemies but have no mass unlike shadow clones. She can also use substitution to avoid attacks. Sakura's power is already addressed.

2m. Yes, with a crucial difference that Pro has totally ignored despite me pointing it out! To quote: ' All team members are still subjected to their own emotions, natures, or other psychological restrictions'. All my points here are totally unrefuted, and this is one of the points where Team Con have a large advantage.

2i. They would be blown away eliminating them for the time being. And if the twins don't die-just get knocked out, then there's no problem is there?

2s. They aren't.

In conclusion;

All team Con has a significant battle advantage over Team Pro. In numerous places, Pro's own strategies lead to the demise of his own Team mates (such as when Bowser tries to use the shroom to suck Charizard in). Bowser inhaling the girls has been thoroughly refuted. Sakura can smash Bowser and co. off the stage. Charizard can fly them off the stage. In frontal combat, Sakura is unmatched, Charizard would have the advantage over Bowser and could incinerate the twins with ease.

In the end, team Con is victorious.
Debate Round No. 5
32 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
I still think that the idea of those boulders going anywhere comparable to 11 km/s as lol.
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
I recall that paragraph, mostly because it was the first glimpse of Sakura's real power. Unfortunately, it was posted in the final round and was still frustratingly vague. Even with her speed, she would be attempting to defeat Pro's entire team, each stocked with weapons, using unusual earthquake and tossing tactics. An earlier explanation of Sakura's abilities and a more straight-forward attack plan would likely have been more effective.
Posted by Kinesis 7 years ago
Actually, I clearly pointed out the difference in their powers, albeit a little late on;

'If you actually watch Pro's video, neither Mario or Luigi are actually going that fast. On the other hand the ninjas in Naruto can move so fast they appear to vanish and reappear to the untrained eye. Neither Mario or Luigi would stand a chance. It takes hours for Sakura to run out of Chakra, as evidenced by her epic fight with Sasori, and she could easily wipe the floor with both twins in that time'
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
Turns out I already read this one.

C: Tie
S/G: Tie
A: Pro - A quick review of the characters' profiles shows Con had the superior team. For example, Sakura alone could likely eliminate all other members (of both teams) during a more realistic encounter. However, the strategies here really made the difference.

Between the retry clocks and the vacuum mushroom, Charizard is destined to fall to Bowser. In addition, Peach seemed almost inconsequential throughout the battle. This leaves Sakura against all of Team Pro, which would still normally end in Con's favor. Rather than simply pulling some ninja voodoo and ending it in moments, though, we've got earthquake punches and attempts to toss foes. It's all too convoluted and uncertain to earn this vote.

S: Pro - As per UTW rules, this category goes to the winner of the arguments category.
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
Oops, forgot to vote on this one, too. I'll get started.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
The lack of votes in this debate is dissapointing...
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
Only two votes total?
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
I am voting PRO, on the basis that those rocks weren't going anywhere near 11 km/s.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
It seems that there has been some great confusion regarding the Lucky Mushroom and the Vacuum ability, so let me clarify:
Bowser ate the Lucky Mushroom at the beginning of the game. This permanently allowed him to use the Vacuum ability. He does not have to eat another Lucky Mushroom at the beginning of the fight.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
The Goombas were already on Gateway Planet. I wasn't "calling in allies." Allies were conveniently present.
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