The Instigator
MTGandP
Pro (for)
Losing
13 Points
The Contender
mongeese
Con (against)
Winning
17 Points

Ultimate Team War III

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/9/2009 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,671 times Debate No: 8568
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (32)
Votes (5)

 

MTGandP

Pro

This is the Ultimate World Domination Team War. Each debater must assemble a team of five people, and the teams will then fight to the death. Since we cannot have an actual real-life battle, each debater will explain why their team is superior during this debate.

DEFINITIONS
Team leader: One of the debaters here, i.e. me or mongeese.
Team member: One of the five chosen warriors.
Team Pro: My team.
Team Con: My opponent's team.

RULES
1. Battles take place on an earthlike planet; there is a human population, but humans will not interfere with the war unless forced to become involved.

2. No team member may have unlimited abilities in one or more particular areas.
3. Every team member must be either real or, if fictional, verifiably existent. No characters may be made up for the purpose of this debate.
4. In the case of a fictional character, the team member's abilities must be according to a specific canon chosen by the team leader.
5. Every character has only the equipment that they generally have in the specified canon. For instance, Master Chief (from Halo) has a full set of armor, a pistol and an assault rifle, while Cyclops (X-Men) has his visor.
6. Team members are absolutely loyal to the team leader, unless subjected to some form of mind control by the opposing team. For example, though Superman and Lex Luthor are enemies, they could still be on the same team.

7. The team leader may not directly participate in the competition, but may only facilitate. The role of the team leader is to explain what the team would do and why it would win against the opposing team.
8. Neither team can have a member in common. If one team leader chooses a team member, the other team cannot have that person.
9. No one may choose Chuck Norris, on the grounds that a) his powers are somewhat vague and b) he is excessively overpowered.

(PRO unveils only three team members in round one for two reasons. The first is so that PRO does not get first dibs on choosing all five team members. The second is so that CON cannot gain an advantage by choosing team members that directly counter PRO's team.)

Round 1: Rule specifications; PRO unveils first three team members, CON unveils all five team members.

Round 2: PRO unveils his final two team members and explains why his team is better. CON also begins her arguments.

Round 3, 4, 5: Arguments and rebuttals. Con may not present any new arguments during round 5, since Pro has no chance to rebut them.

========
Opening
========

Team Member 1: Borg Queen [1], [2]

The Borg Queen, though a single person, possesses a Borg cube (spaceship) capable of supporting 129,000 Borg. She and the ship can assimilate an individual into the Borg collective unless that individual possesses extraordinary superhuman willpower. The Borg cube itself is 3 km on a side. Its weapon systems are highly advanced. To destroy it, most of the ship must be destroyed since vital areas are spread throughout the ship. Its hull is capable of rapid regeneration and rapid adaptation to new threats. Borg themselves are also capable of rapid adaptation; they can typically become immune to a weapon after being exposed to it for only a very brief period of time (a second or lower).

========
Team Member 2: Durandal (Marathon series) [3]

Durandal is a highly intelligent AI. He does not necessarily exist within a computer (it's not actually clear where he exists), and since I don't know where he exists, I don't know how he can be killed. For the sake of fairness, let's assume that he exists within the Borg cube and will die if the cube is destroyed. But being a computer program, Durandal is capable of getting into any computer that he comes into contact with (via internet or LAN), and if he does so, that computer must also be destroyed. Also because he is a computer program, Durandal is capable of complete control over any computer he is inside of, assuming that the computer does not have another AI inside of it. In the case of competing AI, the victor will be worked out during the later debate.

Durandal's intelligence, while limited, continually grows as the universe expands.

Durandal is capable of safely teleporting human-sized objects over arbitrarily vast distances. He supposedly does this with sheer mental power.

========
Team Member 3: Superman [4], [5], [6]

Superman has a wide range of abilities:

-He can see through objects with his x-ray vision; he can see over very long distances; and his vision is so fine that he can see subatomic particles.
-Superman is extremely strong, being able to stop comets and pick up entire mountains.
-He can move fast enough to travel between star systems in only a few minutes.
-Superman is capable of self-levitation as a method of flight.
-His eyes are capable of sending out heat-rays that can vaporize nearly any substance.
-Superman's enhanced invulnerability allows him to fly through a star with minimal harm to himself.
-Superman does not require oxygen to sustain himself.
-Exposure to a yellow star increases Superman's powers; if he flies directly into a yellow star, his powers are increased so much that he can move objects the size of a small planet and other proportionally difficult tasks.
-Superman's powers are greatly reduced when he is exposed to kryptonite.

========

I will post my other two team members and begin my arguments in round 2, after my opponent posts his or her team members.

--------

References

[1] http://memory-alpha.org...
[2] http://memory-alpha.org...
[3] http://marathon.bungie.org...
[4] http://www.superherodb.com...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org...
mongeese

Con

Thanks for starting this debate.

Team Member 1: Yugi Muto (Yu-Gi-Oh anime series) [1][2][3][11]

Yugi is a kid with a deck of Duel Monsters cards and a Millenium Puzzle. His Millenium Puzzle contains the spirit of an Egyptian pharoah, Atem, that Yugi can shift with, allowing Atem to control his body as Yami Yugi. Yami Yugi can banish souls to the Shadow Realm after defeating them in a Shadow Game of any sort. He can also use his Millenium Puzzle to envelop the surrounding area with the Shadow Realm, or bring his cards to life. His most powerful cards are the Egyptian God cards.
In this debate, he uses the deck he had at the end of the Battle City Tournament.

========
Team Member 2: Ganondorf Dragmire (Legend of Zelda video game series) [4][5]

"Ganondorf, known as the Great King of Evil or the Dark Lord, is the primary antagonist of a majority of the games in the Legend of Zelda series. Ganondorf is the king of the Gerudo tribe of the Gerudo Desert in Hyrule. As the wielder of the Triforce of Power, he staged several coups against the Royal Family of Hyrule to take the Hyrulean Throne by force."
"Ganondorf's power is extremely potent even without the Triforce of Power. It was shown in Ocarina of Time that he possessed some magical abilities before obtaining the Triforce when he blasted Link with magic as mentioned above. In the game he was able to create despair all over Hyrule, create countless monsters, break the seal on Kakariko Well releasing Bongo Bongo, resurrect the feared dragon Volvagia, create a clone, open up a portal to another dimension etc. He also has the power to transform into a powerful boar demon known as Ganon as well as create a gigantic copy of it. The exact limits of his powers are unknown although they're probably great as in the climax of Twilight Princess he defeated (and almost killed) Midna despite her having the power of the Fused Shadows with her at the time and it stated by Midna that the Fused Shadows' powers are great. Ganondorf's power is also apparently strong enough that he can lend some of it to another being and still keep enough for himself (as he did to Zant)."
"Presumably through possession of the Triforce of Power, Ganondorf gain near invulnerability and astonishing magical powers, even allowing transformation into various beastly forms and, apparently, granting immortality (he can be defeated, but he never seems to die for good -- in fact, he is seen to apparently come back to life despite having a sword embedded in his gut, during the course of The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess's flashback sequences)."
Ganondorf also has the power to control someone as a puppet.
Note that in this debate, I don't expect Ganondorf to be completely killed. Defeating him will suffice.

========
Team Member 3: Link (Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess) [6][7][8]

In Twilight Princess, Link is a 17-year-old who can transform into a wolf. As a human, he can wield a sword, a shield, a bow, a boomerang, etc. He is very strong for his size, able to push heavy rocks. He also has the Fused Shadow, which contains the power of the Twilit tribe. He holds the Triforce of Courage, which protects him from dark magic, gives him determination and courage, and helps him wield his equipment with ease. His main weapon is the Master Sword. He is also skilled at riding horses and solving puzzles.

========
Team Member 4: Metallo (DC Comics) [9]

"Metallo is a comic book supervillain and cyborg who appears in Superman stories published by DC Comics. Metallo's trademark is his kryptonite power source, which he often uses as a weapon against Superman."
"Metallo's metallic body offers him a high degree of protection from physical and energy attacks. He has enhanced strength, endurance and agility. Metallo no longer needs to eat, sleep or breathe. His brain is hermetically sealed inside a shielded alloy skull that has its own power supply. When he was first created he was powered by a Kryptonite heart.
Metallo sold his soul to Neron in order to gain the ability to absorb any mechanical or metal object he touches. He can transform any machine into an extension of his exo-skeleton.
Brainiac 13 upgraded Metallo to tap into light spectra and energy frequencies. Metallo also used the technology to upgrade his body to monolithic proportions."

========
Team Member 5: Magneto [10]

"Magneto is capable of creating and manipulating magnetic fields, giving him great control over metal. He is powerful enough to significantly shift the earth's magnetic field and to move mountain-sized objects or larger. 'He can completely assemble a complicated machine within seconds through his powers. He can erect magnetic force fields with a high degree of impenetrability protecting himself or others from almost any psionic, energy, or physical attack.'
-Magneto is a brilliant genetic scientist who can alter human genes to turn humans into mutants (as defined in X-Men) and build artificial life forms.
-'Magneto's suit is made of flexible metal bonded on the molecular level, providing protection against projectiles, energy weapons, and concussive force.'
-Magneto's helmet gives him strong resistance to psionic attacks and mental infiltration; when he is wearing his helmet, not even Professor X (possibly the world's most powerful psychic) can get inside his mind.
-And he's notably skilled at hand-to-hand combat."

1. http://yugioh.wikia.com...
2. http://yugioh.wikia.com...
3. http://yugioh.wikia.com...
4. http://zelda.wikia.com...
5. http://zelda.wikia.com...
6. http://zelda.wikia.com...
7. http://zelda.wikia.com...
8. http://zelda.wikia.com...
9. http://en.wikipedia.org...
10. http://www.debate.org...
11. http://yugioh.wikia.com...
Debate Round No. 1
MTGandP

Pro

PREFACE

My opponent has broken several rules.

1. Yugi possesses a deck of many creatures, each of which could act as a standalone team member. My opponent has far too many team members. Because of this, Yugi cannot be allowed to use his deck.

2. The Egyptian God cards have unlimited powers, if only for a brief period.

3. The limits to Ganondorf's powers are unknown, and there is therefore no way to overpower him. He is immortal, but I accept my opponent's defeat-instead-of-kill clause.

========

Team Member 4: Cable [1]

-Cable has great telepathy powers, and can "read thoughts across vast distances, and even interface with multiple minds, simultaneously. . . . Cable has also demonstrated the ability to project bolts or blasts of mental energy that are capable of easily killing or rendering unconscious another Human being. These bolts do not do physical damage. . . . Telekinetically, Cable is capable of very fine control over objects; he can disassemble complex devices explosively (separating every last component, such as screws, nuts, circuit boards, etc.), and just as quickly and easily assemble complex devices. This also has enabled him to even attain awareness and control over objects as small as individual electrons in an atom." He can also telekinetically lift several tons.
-He can create forcefields which can hold against "the ground zero detonation of a 1 kiloton nuclear warhead (4.18 terajoules of energy from the heat, concussion and radiation effects)." He can mold these forcefields into virtually any shape. "He has displayed the ability to control the minds and even voluntary and involuntary bodily functions of sentient beings (such as other Humans)".
-"Cable has proven very difficult to psychically assail, as he is very well skilled in shielding his own mind from mental-attacks (such as attempts to read, control or harm his own mind), and has been sufficient to protect himself from other psychics on the level of Phoenix (Jean Grey), Professor X and Marvel Girl (Rachel Grey)."
-Due to an infection by a techno-organic virus, Cable has become a cyborg. He possesses superhuman strength (he can dead-lift several tons with his left arm, and considerably less (but still a lot) with his right arm) and a resistance to physical damage (enough to be immune to standard firearms). He also has extreme physical and mental endurance; he can perform at his peak for hours on end, and can go for extended periods without sleep. He requires only one hour of sleep to become fully rested.
-Due to nerve enhancements, Cable has superhuman reflexes. He can dodge a bullet and even follow its path with his eye.
-His cybernetic eye is capable of seeing a huge range of the electromagnetic spectrum.
-Due to being cybernetic, Cable is weak against people like Magneto who can control metal. However, he can use his telekinetic powers to rapidly repair himself.
-Cable is capable of flight.
-He is highly intelligent, possibly superhumanly so.

========

Team Member 5: Wonder Woman [2]

"flight, super-strength, super-speed, highly developed fighting skills, enhanced hearing, enhanced vision, animal empathy, regeneration (healing factor), sisterhood with fire, high resistance to magic. Blessed with the gifts of the Olympian Gods, Wonder Woman is one of the strongest beings on the planet; she can fly at sublight speed; while not invulnerable, she is highly resistant to bodily harm; she can psychically communicate with animals; she is an expert at all forms of classical armed and unarmed combat; a master of the sword, ax, and bow and arrow; a skilled tactician and diplomat; her arsenal includes a magic lasso that forces anyone within its confines to tell the absolute truth; her bracelets can deflect bullets [...] Wonder Woman has at her disposal a small lightweight disc of alien (Lansinar) technology that, when triggered by her thoughts, transforms into a transparent version of whatever object or vehicle is appropriate for her needs."

========
Strategies
========

Superman is highly vulnerable to the powers of Metallo. Without Metallo, though, Superman is arguably more powerful than any members of Team Con. So it is important that Metallo be incapacitated and Superman be protected.

Protection Strategy 1: Containment Field
Cable places a forcefield around Metallo, protecting Superman. Though Metallo might or might not (probably not) be able to escape, it will give Superman ample time to incapacitate one or more members of Team Con by using one of my victory strategies.

Protection Strategy 2: Run and Kill
Superman can move very quickly, and can easily escape Metallo's reach. Metallo is then incapacitated by one of Team Pro.

Protection Strategy 3: Assimilation
If Superman is assimilated into the Borg collective, he will gain the ability to adapt very quickly. He can then adapt to kryptonite, eliminating his weakness.

========

Individual Victory Strategies

Borg Queen:
1. Assimilate any of Yugi, Ganondorf, Link or Metallo. (Magneto can use his control over metal to prevent the nanoprobe from infecting him.)
2. Assimilate everyone on earth, then overwhelm Team Con with a gigantic army of seven billion Borg drones.

Durandal:
1. Get inside a computer which Metallo touches, then take over Metallo. But how? Wonder Woman, Durandal, the Borg Queen or Cable could use their intelligence to trick Metallo into touching the computer. Or Wonder Woman or Cable could force Metallo to touch it.
2. With his vast intelligence, he tricks Team Con into doing something stupid leading to their death. Magneto may be too smart, but the others are pretty hopeless against Durandal's genius.

Superman:
1. Kill Yugi, Ganondorf, Link or Magneto by being epic. Because Superman – he's epic.

Cable:
1. Easily incapacitate Yugi or Link, since they are easy to kill.
2. Defeat Metallo by using superior strategy: forcefields, reflexes, etc.
3. Mind control a member of Team Con (besides Magneto; he has the anti-mind control helmet) and use that team member to attack another team member. One of them will die eventually. Repeat this process until only one person is left, who can be killed by Team Pro ganging up on him.

Wonder Woman:
1. Easily incapacitate Yugi or Link.
2. Use Lasso of Truth to determine an easy way to defeat Metallo or Ganondorf.
3. Defeat Metallo with superior strength and agility.
4. Defeat Magneto by . . . I don't know . . . stabbing him or something. With a wooden blade. Yeah.

========

I thank my opponent for accepting this debate. This is going to be great!

========

References

[1] http://www.superherodb.com...
[2] http://www.superherodb.com...
mongeese

Con

"1. Yugi possesses a deck of many creatures, each of which could act as a standalone team member. My opponent has far too many team members. Because of this, Yugi cannot be allowed to use his deck."
The deck is like the Borg cube. One Borg could be a team member. If Yugi's deck isn't allowed, then the Borg cube isn't allowed. The Borg cube is obviously allowed. Therefore, Yugi's deck is allowed.

"2. The Egyptian God cards have unlimited powers, if only for a brief period."
Only Obelisk. It only lasts him the duration of one attack. He can destroy an entire city in this one attack, but a decent magical defense will stop the attack. It can just get by ordinary defenses.

"3. The limits to Ganondorf's powers are unknown, and there is therefore no way to overpower him. He is immortal, but I accept my opponent's defeat-instead-of-kill clause."
He can destroy Hyrule Castle with his attacks. That's the limit, I guess.

"Cable places a forcefield around Metallo, protecting Superman. Though Metallo might or might not (probably not) be able to escape, it will give Superman ample time to incapacitate one or more members of Team Con by using one of my victory strategies."
Well, I'd have to hear your victory strategies.

"Protection Strategy 2: Run and Kill
Superman can move very quickly, and can easily escape Metallo's reach. Metallo is then incapacitated by one of Team Pro."
That's very vague.

"Protection Strategy 3: Assimilation
If Superman is assimilated into the Borg collective, he will gain the ability to adapt very quickly. He can then adapt to kryptonite, eliminating his weakness."
Snap.

"1. Assimilate any of Yugi, Ganondorf, Link or Metallo. (Magneto can use his control over metal to prevent the nanoprobe from infecting him.)"
Yugi has the Millennium Puzzle, so Yami Yugi prevents him from making mistakes. This may or may not count as superhuman willpower.
Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power. He has more than superhuman willpower. He has godly willpower.
Link has the Triforce of Courage. He has godly willpower.
Metallo already is a cyborg.
Besides, Magneto can uses magnetic powers to save all of them from assimilation, and he can even use his magnetic powers to hold Link, Yugi, and Metallo back, while Ganondorf has his godly willpower to save him.

"2. Assimilate everyone on earth, then overwhelm Team Con with a gigantic army of seven billion Borg drones."
How long would this take?

"1. Get inside a computer which Metallo touches, then take over Metallo. But how? Wonder Woman, Durandal, the Borg Queen or Cable could use their intelligence to trick Metallo into touching the computer. Or Wonder Woman or Cable could force Metallo to touch it."
Metallo isn't a computer. He has a brain.

"2. With his vast intelligence, he tricks Team Con into doing something stupid leading to their death. Magneto may be too smart, but the others are pretty hopeless against Durandal's genius."
Perhaps they realize, "Hey, wait a minute! Durandal is on the other side. Why would I even listen to what he has to say?"

"1. Kill Yugi, Ganondorf, Link or Magneto by being epic. Because Superman – he's epic."
Yugi could first defend himself with his deck of cards.
Ganondorf could transform into Flamin' Head Ganondorf and attack Superman.
Link could use the Fused Shadow to morph into a crazy monster and attack Superman.
Magneto could easily create a magnetic force field to protect all of Team CON from Superman.

"1. Easily incapacitate Yugi or Link, since they are easy to kill."
You ignore Yugi's deck of cards.
How, exactly, do you propose on killing Link?

"3. Mind control a member of Team Con (besides Magneto; he has the anti-mind control helmet) and use that team member to attack another team member. One of them will die eventually. Repeat this process until only one person is left, who can be killed by Team Pro ganging up on him."
You forget that Ganondorf is also capable of puppetry, and Yugi can use both Brain Control and Change of Heart.
Furthermore, mind-controlling Yugi doesn't help, because he has two minds.

"1. Easily incapacitate Yugi or Link."
Yugi has his cards.
Link is also skilled with weapons. How do you propose on defeating him?

"2. Use Lasso of Truth to determine an easy way to defeat Metallo or Ganondorf."
There is no easy way.
Oh, and Ganondorf needs the Master Sword used on him to be defeated. No other sword will do.

"3. Defeat Metallo with superior strength and agility."
Metallo could add the Borg Cube to his body. He could then swing the Borg Cube around and crush Wonder Woman.

"4. Defeat Magneto by . . . I don't know . . . stabbing him or something. With a wooden blade. Yeah."
A magnetic forcefield protects him from a wooden blade. Furthermore, Wonder Woman's outfit is made of metal. Yeah.

Now, for my strategies against the Borg Cube:
1. Yugi uses the Millennium Puzzle to enshroud himself, Team CON, and the Borg Cube in the Shadow Realm.
a. Here, Magneto manipulates magnetic fields to drag one Borg out of the cube and in front of Yugi. Yugi then activates a trap card, Chain Destruction. Because a Borg was just summoned in front of Yugi, it automatically destroys all of the Borgs in the Borg Cube. Victory.
b. Yugi summons Dark Magician and Dark Magician Girl, then plays Ragnarok, resulting in every single one of his monsters coming out to attack and destroy the Borg Cube.
2. Yugi traps himself and the Borg Cube in the Shadow Realm, then plays Dark Hole, creating a black hole in the center of the Borg Cube, eliminating it.
3. Yugi uses Brain Control on the Borg Queen. He now controls the entire Borg Cube. He summons the Winged Dragon of Ra, and uses its ability to sacrifice the 129,000 Borgs and the Borg Queen to give all of their power to Ra. The Borg Cube is then added to Metallo's body.
4. Magneto rips apart the Borg Cube magnetically, or simply manipulates the cyborg Borgs to bend to his will.
5. Ganondorf throws a bunch of monsters onto the Borg Cube. They invade and attack the Borgs.
6. Ganondorf uses the Borg Queen as a puppet, and then eliminates Team PRO with it using its swarming powers and cannons and whatnot.

Strategies against Durandal:
Computer programs are destroyable by magnets. [1] Magneto could easily use a magnetic field in the Borg Cube to erase Durandal from existence.

Strategies against Cable:
Magneto can use magnetic fields to pull Cable apart. As long as he just holds the fields there while Cable is busily repairing himself, which is even harder with constant magnetism, Cable can't do anything.

Strategies against Superman:
With the Borg Cube in the Shadow Realm, Superman can't join them. Magneto can use magnetic fields to put Metallo anywhere he wants, so Metallo can follow Superman with his Kryptonite powers until he breaks down in Kryptonite exposure.
Or, of course, once the Borg Cube is taken care of, Yugi can use Change of Heart to control Superman, and sacrifice Superman to the Winged Dragon of Ra.

Strategies against Wonder Woman:
Once the Winged Dragon of Ra has Superman's strength, Wonder Woman is no match for the Winged Dragon of Ra.
Magneto can manipulate Wonder Woman due to her metallic uniform, so Wonder Woman really can't do anything but be destroyed by the Winged Dragon of Ra.

So, Magneto is stalling both Wonder Woman and Cable, and he can drag Metallo around, chasing Superman, and he can disassemble the Borg Cube, and he can erase Durandal.
Yugi can use Brain Control or Change of Heart to control anybody and sacrifice them to the Winged Dragon of Ra.
Yugi can use Chain Destruction or Dark Hole to destroy all of the Borgs.
Metallo can then add the Borg Cube (assuming Chain Destruction was used) to his body.
Ganondorf and Link can use the Fused Shadow and godly powers to together take down almost anybody on Team PRO.

Yeah, this will be great.

1. http://www.cheathouse.com...
Debate Round No. 2
MTGandP

Pro

"One Borg could be a team member. If Yugi's deck isn't allowed, then the Borg cube isn't allowed."
Although I still disagree, I am probably suffering from foundational bias. Conceded.

"[Obelisk] can destroy an entire city in this one attack, but a decent magical defense will stop the attack."
What sort of magical defense?

"He can destroy Hyrule Castle with his attacks. That's the limit"
Accepted.

"That's very vague."
What's important is that Superman can get out of Metallo's reach. Metallo can then be incapacitated using one of my victory strategies, such as Durandal getting into his brain (which my opponent says won't work, but that's another matter).

========

"Yugi has the Millennium Puzzle [...] This may or may not count as superhuman willpower."
Yami Yugi is some 5000-year-old pharaoh. He may have greater willpower than most, but I wouldn't call it superhuman.

"Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power. He has more than superhuman willpower. He has godly willpower.
Link has the Triforce of Courage. He has godly willpower."
Conceded. They cannot be assimilated.

"Metallo already is a cyborg."
Irrelevant. Metallo will be assimilated, irrespective of whether he is already a cyborg. Resistance is futile.

"Besides, Magneto can uses magnetic powers to save all of them from assimilation, and he can even use his magnetic powers to hold Link, Yugi, and Metallo back, while Ganondorf has his godly willpower to save him."
Okay, so we kill Magneto first.

"How long would [mass assimilation] take?"
Not very long. Disperse the nanoprobe throughout Earth's atmosphere, and everyone on Earth may be infected in just a few days. But a sizable army of ten thousand or more should grow in just a few hours.

"Metallo isn't a computer. He has a brain."
-Yes, but Metallo absorbs any electronics he touches, so Durandal could get inside a computer and then sabotage it from within, killing Metallo. Or he could cause the computer to explode.
-How can Metallo absorb a computer without it being connected to his brain? If the computer is connected to his brain, Durandal can get inside his brain.

"Perhaps they realize, 'Hey, wait a minute! Durandal is on the other side. Why would I even listen to what he has to say?' "
It's easy for my OPPONENT to say that. HE hasn't talked to Durandal. If he did, I'm sure he would see things differently.
-I have confidence that a hyperintelligent AI is capable of tricking a 14-year-old boy (and a 5000-year-old pharaoh, for that matter).

"Yugi could first defend himself with his deck of cards."
Yes, because Celtic Guardian could kill Superman. But actually he can't, so this wouldn't work.

"Ganondorf could transform into Flamin' Head Ganondorf and attack Superman."
Could my opponent specify as to why Ganondorf would be able to defend himself against Superman? Superman can fly through the sun without getting hurt.

"You ignore Yugi's deck of cards."
I really don't have room to go over every single card in Yugi's deck. I request that my opponent show which cards could stand between Superman and Yugi, which I will proceed to rebut.

"How, exactly, do you propose on killing Link?"
By my opponent's description, he is a skilled fighter with superhuman bravery. It doesn't sound like he's a match for Superman. How exactly can Superman kill him?
-Superman punches Link so hard that his bones shatter.
-Superman steals Link's sword and cuts his head off with it.
-Superman throws Link into the sun.
I think that's enough, but I can provide more if necessary.

"You forget that Ganondorf is also capable of puppetry, and Yugi can use both Brain Control and Change of Heart."
Resulting in a mind control war. Interesting. In that case, the person being mind controlled would simply be incapacitated, which is to my advantage.

"Furthermore, mind-controlling Yugi doesn't help, because he has two minds."
So mind control both minds (Cable can do that). Or mind control one and use it to take control of the body.

"Yugi has his cards.
Link is also skilled with weapons. How do you propose on defeating him?"
See above.

"Oh, and Ganondorf needs the Master Sword used on him to be defeated. No other sword will do."
Oh, so that's how it is. =)
Since Link possesses this Master Sword, one of Team Pro can steal it from him.

"Metallo could add the Borg Cube to his body."
The Borg Cube would then assimilate Metallo.

"He could then swing the Borg Cube around and crush Wonder Woman."
Wonder Woman can dodge it. She can move very quickly.

"A magnetic forcefield protects him from a wooden blade. Furthermore, Wonder Woman's outfit is made of metal."
-Wonder Woman has superhuman strength; she can punch Magneto really hard. Or she can fly him out over the ocean and drop him (of course making sure that no metal is nearby).
-Wonder Woman can take off all of her clothes. Her clothing awards her no power, so it doesn't matter.

========

"Yugi uses the Millennium Puzzle to enshroud himself, Team CON, and the Borg Cube in the Shadow Realm.
Here, Magneto manipulates magnetic fields to drag one Borg out of the cube and in front of Yugi. Yugi then activates a trap card, Chain Destruction. Because a Borg was just summoned in front of Yugi, it automatically destroys all of the Borgs in the Borg Cube. Victory."
-This gives ample time for the Borg Cube/Borg drones to shoot Yugi. The Borg Cube has massive amounts of firepower, and can shoot Yugi before he gets the chance to play any cards.
-The Borg Queen has a different name than Borg drones, so she would not be killed.
-Who is to say that Borg drones have 2000 attack or less? [1]

"Yugi summons Dark Magician and Dark Magician Girl, then plays Ragnarok, resulting in every single one of his monsters coming out to attack and destroy the Borg Cube."
-This is an unlimited ability; it kills the Borg Cube and is impossible to defend against. Therefore, it should be disallowed.
-This would completely remove all of Yugi's monsters as well as all of Team Con, resulting in my victory. [2]

"Yugi uses Brain Control on the Borg Queen. He now controls the entire Borg Cube. He summons the Winged Dragon of Ra, and uses its ability to sacrifice the 129,000 Borgs and the Borg Queen to give all of their power to Ra. The Borg Cube is then added to Metallo's body."
Cable can use his mind control powers to prevent Brain Control from reaching the Borg Queen.

"Magneto rips apart the Borg Cube magnetically, or simply manipulates the cyborg Borgs to bend to his will."
-Nanoprobes build a new Borg Cube that Magneto cannot control.
-How can Magneto manipulate Borg drones?

"Ganondorf throws a bunch of monsters onto the Borg Cube."
And the Borg Cube shoots 'em dead.

"Ganondorf uses the Borg Queen as a puppet"
-Cable (see above).
-Durandal can get inside the Borg Cube and take control of it. His mental prowess is far greater than that of Ganondorf.

"Computer programs are destroyable by magnets."
-Once Durandal is Borg, he can adapt to this problem.
-Durandal can get inside many different computers, making it too hard for Magneto to get all of them.

"Cable can't do anything."
Magneto can do no more.

"Magneto can use magnetic fields to put Metallo anywhere he wants"
Magneto cannot move Metallo at more than the speed of light like Superman can.

Both Wonder Woman strategies are already refuted.

========

Victory is mine!

[1] http://yugioh.wikia.com...
[2] http://yugioh.wikia.com...
mongeese

Con

"What sort of magical defense?"
I don't know. A magical defense.

Question: What are the limits on Cable's mind control?

Because you intend on killing Magneto first...

Your only strategy that involves killing Magneto is Wonder Woman punching him or something. However, Magneto has a force-field to protect himself.

Because Magneto hasn't been killed, he can still prevent Cable from doing anything.

"-Yes, but Metallo absorbs any electronics he touches, so Durandal could get inside a computer and then sabotage it from within, killing Metallo. Or he could cause the computer to explode.
-How can Metallo absorb a computer without it being connected to his brain? If the computer is connected to his brain, Durandal can get inside his brain."
Magneto would at least be able to use magnets to prevent Durandal from getting into any of Metallo's computers.

"-I have confidence that a hyperintelligent AI is capable of tricking a 14-year-old boy (and a 5000-year-old pharaoh, for that matter)."
However, I don't see how you can trick someone, especially a King of Games, into doing something, especially when they know that they're talking to the enemy.

"Yes, because Celtic Guardian could kill Superman. But actually he can't, so this wouldn't work."
Superman vs. Dark Magician. Yugi plays Mystic Box. Superman gets sliced to pieces.

"Could my opponent specify as to why Ganondorf would be able to defend himself against Superman? Superman can fly through the sun without getting hurt."
Does the sun ever get hurt?
Didn't think so.

"I really don't have room to go over every single card in Yugi's deck. I request that my opponent show which cards could stand between Superman and Yugi, which I will proceed to rebut."
Let's pit Obelisk against Superman. Yeah, that should do it.
Anyways, Yugi can use a combination of Kuriboh and Multiply to have a barrier of 1,000 Kuribohs. Whenever they're attacked, they re-multiply.

"By my opponent's description, he is a skilled fighter with superhuman bravery. It doesn't sound like he's a match for Superman. How exactly can Superman kill him?
-Superman punches Link so hard that his bones shatter.
-Superman steals Link's sword and cuts his head off with it.
-Superman throws Link into the sun.
I think that's enough, but I can provide more if necessary."
For one thing, Link can use the Fused Shadow to transform into a monster-type thing that's about as strong as Flamin' Head Ganondorf. In this form, Link can strangle Superman.
Or, when Superman is just about to get to Link, he uses the Mortal Draw, pulling out his sword and killing Superman on the spot.
Link has a shield that can't be broken, so a punch wouldn't really work.
Magneto could use his magnetic powers to keep Link away from the sun, as his sword is made of metal.
Finally, we have Metallo and his Kryptonite.

"Resulting in a mind control war. Interesting. In that case, the person being mind controlled would simply be incapacitated, which is to my advantage."
What?
Yugi mind-controls both Cable and the Borg Queen, and sacrifices them to the Winged Dragon of Ra.
Ganondorf uses Superman as a puppet while he's weakened by Kryptonite.
Yugi uses Collected Power to give all of Wonder Woman's equipment to Link, so Link can use the Master Sword or Fused Shadow to eliminate Wonder Woman.

"The Borg Cube would then assimilate Metallo."
Magneto uses his powers to prevent the nanoprobe from doing whatever it is it does.

"-This gives ample time for the Borg Cube/Borg drones to shoot Yugi. The Borg Cube has massive amounts of firepower, and can shoot Yugi before he gets the chance to play any cards.
-The Borg Queen has a different name than Borg drones, so she would not be killed.
-Who is to say that Borg drones have 2000 attack or less?"
Kuriboh protects Yugi from an initial attack before he can start.
Using Slifer the Sky Dragon, the Borg's ATK is automatically reduced by 2000, so it would need to have over 4000 ATK to escape. Obelisk has 4000 ATK, and a Borg isn't as powerful as Obelisk.
However, Dark Hole would, unless the Borg Cube is immune to black holes.
With Ragnarok, every monster in Yugi's deck attacks the Borg Cube all at once. Hopefully, this would indeed be enough to eliminate it. Obelisk, Slifer, and the Winged Dragon of Ra significantly help his chance. It wouldn't really be an instant destruction, here. Just think of it as an all-out attack.
The rest of Team CON is not in Yugi's deck. Yugi plays this card alone.

"Cable can use his mind control powers to prevent Brain Control from reaching the Borg Queen."
Cable is on the Earth-like planet. Yugi and the Borg Queen are in the Shadow Realm. There is no interference between the two dimensions.

"-Nanoprobes build a new Borg Cube that Magneto cannot control.
-How can Magneto manipulate Borg drones?"
They can build a Borg Cube out of something other than metal before the Borg Queen can be defeated by the Magician of Black Chaos?
Borgs have metal in them. This makes them susceptible to control through magnets. Maybe not through their brains, but through their bodies.

"And the Borg Cube shoots 'em dead."
Awww.

"-Cable (see above)."
Cable is not here right now. Try again later.

"-Durandal can get inside the Borg Cube and take control of it. His mental prowess is far greater than that of Ganondorf."
However, when the Borg Cube is ripped apart, Durandal has to be in only one part of it. Magneto can erase Durandal from that part.
Besides, Ganondorf is controlling the Borg Queen, while Durandal is controlling the Borg Cube.

"-Once Durandal is Borg, he can adapt to this problem."
A computer program cannot become a Borg.

"-Durandal can get inside many different computers, making it too hard for Magneto to get all of them."
However, if the Borg Cube is ripped apart, Magneto can attack the individual pieces of the Borg Cube.

"Magneto can do no more."
Wonder Woman failed, due to the forcefield.

"Magneto cannot move Metallo at more than the speed of light like Superman can."
Well, then, Superman can just hide for a while. Meanwhile, Metallo will protect Team CON.

Once the rest of Team PRO is eliminated, I just have to get to Superman. Swords of Revealing Light will freeze him long enough for Metallo to come out and fight Superman. Yugi can enclose them both in the Shadow Realm, so Superman has no escape, and he eventually dies due to prolonged Kryptonite exposure.

So, my essential strategy:
Yugi uses Collected Power to transfer Wonder Woman's equipment to Link, then shrouds himself, Magneto, and the Borg Cube in the Shadow Realm.

Yugi uses Brain Control to take over the Borg Queen, and tributes the Borg Queen and all of the Borgs to add their power to the Winged Dragon of Ra.
Magneto rips the Borg Cube into microscopic pieces, destroying Durandal due to the tiny size and the intense magnetic exposure.

When Superman is initially exposed to Kryptonite, he is briefly weakened, giving Ganondorf enough time to take over Superman.
Superman can defeat Wonder Woman with ease, especially when Wonder Woman doesn't have any equipment, and Link can use Wonder Woman's equipment instead.
Link uses the small lightweight disc of alien technology to give himself a helmet similar to that of Magneto, protecting him from Cable.
Yugi and Magneto return from the Shadow Realm, and Magneto rips Cable apart with magnetic force.
Ganondorf leaves Superman, and uses his own barrier abilities to pit Superman against Metallo, similar to how he pit Link against wide varieties of enemies when Link tried to storm the castle, as seen in the YouTube video.
Superman cannot escape, and is weakened by the Kryptonite until he dies.

Team CON wins!!!
Debate Round No. 3
MTGandP

Pro

"What are the limits on Cable's mind control?"
He can mentally interface with a few people at a time. How many, I'm not sure. Professor X is more powerful than he is (in terms of mind control), so he's not unbeatable.

"Your only strategy that involves killing Magneto is Wonder Woman punching him or something. However, Magneto has a force-field to protect himself."
Magneto's forcefields cannot stop anything. Wonder Woman is extremely strong; if she's not strong enough, then Superman is. Or the Borg Cube, with its enormous firepower, can shoot him until he cannot sustain his forcefield any more. Or they could all team up.

"Magneto would at least be able to use magnets to prevent Durandal from getting into any of Metallo's computers."
Ha ha, very clever. But Magneto is already dead!

"However, I don't see how you can trick someone, especially a King of Games, into doing something, especially when they know that they're talking to the enemy."
This is an argument from incredulity. Humans are very gullible, and can be tricked. Even if you or I couldn't trick Yugi, Durandal could.

"Superman vs. Dark Magician. Yugi plays Mystic Box. Superman gets sliced to pieces."
-Superman would easily do away with Dark Magician.
-Yugi would have to somehow get the box around Superman, but Superman can move faster than light so it wouldn't work.
-Superman can use his laser vision to cut through the box and escape.
-No mere box can slice Superman.

"Does the sun ever get hurt?"
Yes. Ever heard of a supernova?
Is my opponent proposing that Ganondorf is undefeatable? Remember that Superman can steal that sword from Link with his super-speed (or by killing Link).

"Let's pit Obelisk against Superman."
Superman flies to a safe distance and then shoots Obelisk with his heat rays. Obelisk, though very strong, only has 4000 ATK/DEF and will eventually die. But Obelisk cannot fly.

"Yugi can use a combination of Kuriboh and Multiply to have a barrier of 1,000 Kuribohs."
Only 5 monsters can be in play at a time [2].

"Whenever they're attacked, they re-multiply."
Superman doesn't attack them; he just pushes them aside and flies through.

"Link can use the Fused Shadow to transform into a monster-type thing that's about as strong as Flamin' Head Ganondorf. In this form, Link can strangle Superman."
-Superman can kill Link while he's transforming.
-Superman can use super speed to stay at a safe distance while bombarding Link with attacks.

"when Superman is just about to get to Link, he uses the Mortal Draw, pulling out his sword and killing Superman on the spot."
-Besides the fact that it's illegal, Superman can kill Link while Link is drawing his sword.
-Superman could also use super-speed to steal the sword.

"Link has a shield that can't be broken, so a punch wouldn't really work."
-This breaks rule 2. But Superman can get past it by stealing Link's shield or by punching Link's back.

"Magneto could use his magnetic powers to keep Link away from the sun"
Superman flies faster than Magneto can move objects, so this won't work.

"Finally, we have Metallo and his Kryptonite."
That's why either another member of Team Pro occupies Metallo, or Superman keeps himself and Link out of range.

"Yugi mind-controls both Cable and the Borg Queen, and sacrifices them to the Winged Dragon of Ra."
Cable is very resistant to mind control, and he can also help keep the Borg Queen on his side. If Durandal gets inside the Borg Cube, he can force the Queen to stay on Team Pro.

"Ganondorf uses Superman as a puppet while he's weakened by Kryptonite."
Superman cannot be weakened if he cannot be caught. And Superman cannot be caught by the likes of Magneto and Metallo.

"Yugi uses Collected Power to give all of Wonder Woman's equipment to Link"
Wonder Woman can use her super-strong grip to prevent the equipment from leaving her hands.

"Magneto uses his powers to prevent the nanoprobe from doing whatever it is it does."
Which is why I kill him first.

The Borg Cube can move at warp 21. This is fast enough to: a) get past Kuriboh and kill Yugi; b) escape a black hole, since gravity only moves at the speed of light [3]; c) escape Ragnarok, after which every monster in Yugi's deck is removed from the game and cannot be used.

"Cable is on the Earth-like planet. Yugi and the Borg Queen are in the Shadow Realm."
Then Durandal does it, since Durandal (or a part of Durandal) is in the Borg Cube and part of the Collective.

"They can build a Borg Cube out of something other than metal before the Borg Queen can be defeated by the Magician of Black Chaos?"
They'll start early.

"when the Borg Cube is ripped apart, Durandal has to be in only one part of it."
Durandal can copy himself.

"Ganondorf is controlling the Borg Queen"
When Durandal is part of the Borg Cube, he is also part of the Collective. They share a mind. So he does have influence over the Queen.

"A computer program cannot become a Borg."
He is not a Borg drone, but his mind is part of the Collective mind.

"if the Borg Cube is ripped apart, Magneto can attack the individual pieces of the Borg Cube."
But while he's doing that, the Cube will be repairing itself. Maybe Magneto (who is dead by the way) will be able to eventually destroy the Cube and Durandal, but it will take a very long time, giving the rest of Team Pro ample time to kill Magneto or other members of Team Con. Or while Magneto is distracted, Metallo could be killed.

"Wonder Woman failed, due to the forcefield."
Forcefields are not indestructible. Superman has been seen to move comets, and Wonder Woman is close to as strong as Superman.

"Metallo will protect Team CON."
-Superman can use long-range attacks.
-Wonder Woman can overpower Metallo.
-The Cube can shoot down Metallo.
-Cable can mind control Metallo.

"Yugi can enclose them both in the Shadow Realm, so Superman has no escape"
-Isn't the Shadow Realm a pretty big place? Superman can still get out of range.
-Yugi can be killed first.

"Magneto rips the Borg Cube into microscopic pieces"
That would take a long time and a lot of concentration, allowing Magneto or Metallo to be killed.

My opponent has just given me an idea. Wonder Woman can give her disc to Superman after transforming it into a Kryptonite-protection suit. Superman can then incapacitate Metallo.

========

[1] http://yugioh.wikia.com...
[2] http://www.yugiohetc.com...
[3] http://www.universetoday.com...
mongeese

Con

"Magneto's forcefields cannot stop anything..."
Yugi has separated the battle so that Wonder Woman and Superman can't get to Magneto. The Borg Cube, meanwhile, is stopped by Kuriboh, until Yugi uses Brain Control to take over the Borg Queen, and Magneto can keep Durandal out of any part of the Borg Cube he wishes, so Yugi can sacrifice the entire Borg Collective to the Winged Dragon of Ra, eliminating them. So, none of them can eliminate Magneto.

"Ha ha, very clever. But Magneto is already dead!"
Wrong. See above.

"This is an argument from incredulity..."
If Yugi were to start listening to Durandal, he could first summon the Dark Sage, a thousand-year-old wizard, to consult. The Dark Sage obviously would not be fooled, as he is a Sage, and Yugi would rather listen to the Dark Sage than Durandal. He could also use the Eye of Truth, which "knows all, see's all," to know Durandal's true intentions.

"-Superman would easily do away with Dark Magician..."
Well, in a 1-on-1 fight, the Dark Magician can use Dark Magic Attack if Superman dared to come near. Superman isn't resistant to magic.

"Yes. Ever heard of a supernova?
Is my opponent proposing that Ganondorf is undefeatable? Remember that Superman can steal that sword from Link with his super-speed (or by killing Link)."
Ganondorf doesn't have supernovas.
In Flamin' Head mode, Ganondorf isn't defeatable by sword. He was actually forced out of this mode by the Fused Shadow. However, if Ganondorf locks Superman in a battle against Ganondorf, Superman wouldn't really be able to do anything about it.

"Superman flies to a safe distance and then shoots Obelisk with his heat rays..."
That's not how it works in Duel Monsters. Superman's heat rays would have to be more powerful than Obelisk's defense, period. With Horn of the Unicorn, it's now 4700.
How far can his heat rays go?
Yugi plays Makiu, the Magical Mist, which can put out your heat ray.

"Only 5 monsters can be in play at a time [2]."
My YouTube video (2:40) begs to differ.

"Superman doesn't attack them..."
Kuribohs explode upon contact. This explosive force repels Superman backwards, and by the time he tries again, another one replaces it.

"-Superman can kill Link while he's transforming..."
Ganondorf could stall Superman with a barrier while Link transforms. He could also stall Superman with a cutscene in which Superman must stand and watch as the two of them transform.
Link also can protect himself with his shield, which is impervious to projectiles and fire.

"-Besides the fact that it's illegal..."
Then I'll just stick with the cutscene strategy.

"-This breaks rule 2..."
Bah. Cutscene.

"Superman flies faster than Magneto can move objects, so this won't work."
Can Superman pull metal with more power than Magneto's magnetic field? Link can also use his Iron Boots, which are very susceptible to magnetic pulls.

"That's why either another member of Team Pro occupies Metallo..."
Well, Metallo can guard Link and Ganondorf from Superman, and Wonder Woman has been disabled, and could be eliminated by either Link or Ganondorf. This leaves Cable, but he's still trying to deal with being pulled apart by magnetic fields.

"Superman cannot be weakened if he cannot be caught..."
Well, while Superman's away, he can't exactly attack anybody.

"Which is why I kill him first."
And yet, you've never managed to get this to work.

"The Borg Cube can move at warp 21..."
The Shadow Realm presents a boundary that can't be escaped without defeating Yugi, so you don't have enough space to escape the black hole. He only used enough Shadow Realm to cover himself, Magneto, and the Cube.

"Then Durandal does it, since Durandal (or a part of Durandal) is in the Borg Cube and part of the Collective."
Magneto can use his magnetic powers to keep Durandal from accessing whatever parts of the Borg Cube he wants, which includes the Borg Queen.

"They'll start early."
Well, how do they get the Queen into the new cube? Magneto has power over her with his magnets.

"Durandal can copy himself."
Then Magneto will erase Durandal from every piece of the Borg Cube.

"When Durandal is part of the Borg Cube, he is also part of the Collective..."
However, Magneto can stop him, easy.

"He is not a Borg drone, but his mind is part of the Collective mind."
The the entire Collective mind is prone to being erased by a magnet. How fun. Computer programs can't resist magnets.

"But while he's doing that, the Cube will be repairing itself..."
Magneto still isn't dead. The rest of Team PRO is not in the Shadow Realm, so they can't do anything about it.

"Forcefields are not indestructible..."
Well, then, I'll have Ganondorf and Link stall everybody outside of the Shadow Realm with a nice long cutscene until they're done with the Borg Cube and Durandal.

"-Superman can use long-range attacks..."
I'm going to stick with the cutscene.

"-Isn't the Shadow Realm a pretty big place?..."
Kuribohs.
Ganondorf's barriers are more closed-in than the Shadow Realm, so I'll use him.

"That would take a long time and a lot of concentration, allowing Magneto or Metallo to be killed."
They're in separate dimensions.

"My opponent has just given me an idea..."
However, Link has the disc, because of Collected Power.

Anyways, new plan:

Yugi uses Collected Power to transfer Wonder Woman's equipment to Link, and then shrouds himself, Magneto, and the Borg Cube in the Shadow Realm.

Yugi uses Brain Control to take over the mind that the Borg Queen, Durandal, and the entire Borg Collective supposedly share, and tributes the Borg Queen, Durandal, and all of the Borgs to add their power to the Winged Dragon of Ra.
Magneto rips the Borg Cube into pieces. DURANDAL and BORG QUEEN ELIMINATED.

Ganondorf and Link stall everybody else with an epic cutscene in which Ganondorf uses a huge string of insults against Link, so nothing really happens for a few hours until Yugi and Magneto return.
Or, Ganondorf challenges Link and Metallo to an insult contest, and he accepts. Ganondorf creates a barrier similar to the one he used against Link in the epic climax of Twilight Princess. The rest of Team PRO cannot interfere until Ganondorf pulls off the final put-down, which doesn't happen until Yugi and Magneto return.
Yay, stalling!

Yugi and Magneto return from the Shadow Realm.
Yugi uses Change of Heart to take control of Cable, which affects his heart, rather than his brain. Cable is then sacrificed to the Winged Dragon of Ra.
Or, if that doesn't work, Magneto rips Cable apart. CABLE ELIMINATED.
Yugi plays Regulation of Tribe, so all superheroes can't attack as long as he continues to sacrifice Kuriboh.
Link and Ganondorf enter their powered-up forms, and eliminate Wonder Woman with the help of the Dark Magician and the Winged Dragon of Ra. WONDER WOMAN ELIMINATED
Ganondorf uses his barrier powers to trap Superman, wherever he is, until Magneto brings Metallo to him.
Superman is weakened by the Kryptonite, and can't escape. He eventually dies of overexposure. SUPERMAN ELIMINATED.

ALL OF TEAM PRO ELIMINATED.

VICTORY GOES TO TEAM CON.
Debate Round No. 4
MTGandP

Pro

"Yugi has separated the battle so that Wonder Woman and Superman can't get to Magneto."
The linearity of events in this debate is going crazy.
-Superman and Wonder Woman are FAST. They can get Magneto before Yugi separates the battle.
-The Borg Cube can move at warp 21. It can get out of range of Magneto to buy time, or it can shoot Magneto and quickly leave. Magneto may control metal, but he is not immune to powerful phasers and photon torpedoes. The firepower of the Borg Cube is intense; Magneto would crumble under the wrath of the Cube. And remember, the Cube can move at warp 21. And if it's controlled by Durandal, Durandal is an AI so he has reflexes far faster than a mere mortal such as Magneto. He can warp out of there if necessary.

"The Borg Cube, meanwhile, is stopped by Kuriboh"
Impossible.
-Only five Kuribohs can be summoned at a time.
-The Cube can easily smash itself through a wall of Kuribohs, which does not kill any Kuribohs but it gets the Cube to the other side.

"If Yugi were to start listening to Durandal, he could first summon the Dark Sage"
-Durandal would convince Yugi not to.
-Durandal could fool the Dark Sage. Dark Sage is limited by the human mental capacity; Durandal is not.

"He could also use the Eye of Truth, which "knows all, see's all," to know Durandal's true intentions."
-Durandal could convince Yugi not to.
-If he somehow does anyway, Durandal could convince Yugi to listen to him anyway. He could convince Yugi that Durandal's intentions are more righteous than Yugi's.

"Dark Magician can use Dark Magic Attack if Superman dared to come near. Superman isn't resistant to magic."
True, but Superman is far faster than Dark Magician. Superman could kill the Magician before he knew what happened. If that somehow does not work, Superman can still dodge the attacks since he can move faster than light.

"In Flamin' Head mode, Ganondorf isn't defeatable by sword."
-What is Flamin' Head mode? I see no references to it on the Mario Wiki page [1].
-So there is no known (to me) way to defeat Ganondorf. This is a violation or rule 2.

"Superman's heat rays would have to be more powerful than Obelisk's defense, period."
-Superman's heat rays are not quantifiable in terms of ATK. They may be greater than 4700, considering how strong Superman really is.
-Superman can shoot many heat rays within one "turn", dealing 4700 or more damage in a single attack phase.

"How far can his heat rays go?"
A hundred miles or so.

"Yugi plays Makiu, the Magical Mist, which can put out your heat ray.'
Makiu does not put out heat rays [2].

"My YouTube video (2:40) begs to differ."
-The dialogue is in Japanese, which makes it difficult to properly analyze.
-That's just the show. The official rules dictate that only five monsters may be in play at a time.

"Kuribohs explode upon contact. This explosive force repels Superman backwards, and by the time he tries again, another one replaces it."
The fastest they can possibly spawn is the speed of light. Superman flies faster than light, so he can get through.

"Ganondorf could stall Superman with a barrier while Link transforms."
Ganondorf would have to get the barrier up at faster than the speed of light.

"He could also stall Superman with a cutscene in which Superman must stand and watch as the two of them transform."
Superman does not watch cutscenes!

"Link also can protect himself with his shield, which is impervious to projectiles and fire."
Superman can attack Link from behind, above, below, or the side.

"Then I'll just stick with the cutscene strategy."
Superman has no reason to watch those cutscenes. He refuses to watch cutscenes, and he will kill Link in the middle of the cutscene if necessary.

"Can Superman pull metal with more power than Magneto's magnetic field?"
It doesn't matter: Superman can catch up to Link and then kill him.

"Wonder Woman has been disabled"
Really? How?

"[Cable]'s still trying to deal with being pulled apart by magnetic fields."
-Magneto is dead.
-Magneto cannot deal with the Cube and with Cable.
-I thought Magneto was in the Shadow Realm and Cable wasn't. "Cable is on the Earth-like planet."

"Well, while Superman's away, he can't exactly attack anybody."
He can zoom up to someone at 10 times the speed of light, punch the person, and zoom away. Repeat.

"He only used enough Shadow Realm to cover himself, Magneto, and the Cube."
Oh, so he can decide how much Shadow Realm he wants! If everything is that small, the Cube can just shoot some photon torpedoes, blowing up most everything (including Yugi and Magneto). Due to the hull strength of the Cube, it will be only damaged, and will quickly regenerate.

"Magneto can use his magnetic powers to keep Durandal from accessing whatever parts of the Borg Cube he wants, which includes the Borg Queen."
-Durandal could get inside the Queen's brain, which is not metallic.
-Magneto and Yugi are already dead anyway, since the Cube fired the torpedoes as soon as they entered the Shadow Realm.

"Well, how do they get the Queen into the new cube?"
They copy Durandal into it. Durandal can control a Cube.

"Then Magneto will erase Durandal from every piece of the Borg Cube."
That will take a while, giving the Cube plenty of time to blow up Magneto. And I think it has enough firepower to get through Magneto's forcefields; this ship is an intergalactic death machine, responsible for conquering and assimilating hundreds of advanced civilizations.

"I'll have Ganondorf and Link stall everybody outside of the Shadow Realm with a nice long cutscene until they're done with the Borg Cube and Durandal."
My opponent means until the Cube blows up Yugi and Magneto, releasing them from the Shadow Realm, and then they proceed to kill Link and Ganondorf with superior firepower.

"I'm going to stick with the cutscene."
-There is no reason whatsoever why Superman would watch the cutscene.
-Cutscene-watchingness was not listed as one of Link's powers.

"They're in separate dimensions."
Yeah, so Magneto can't help Metallo.

"Link has the disc, because of Collected Power."
Fine. I still kill him.

"Yugi uses Collected Power to transfer Wonder Woman's equipment to Link, and then shrouds himself, Magneto, and the Borg Cube in the Shadow Realm."
Then the Cube blows up Yugi, Link and Magneto.

"Yugi uses Brain Control"
Yugi is dead.

"The rest of Team PRO cannot interfere until Ganondorf pulls off the final put-down"
Why the heck not?

My opponent's new strategy hinges on Yugi and Magneto, who have been killed by the Cube.

-Yugi and Magneto are dead.
-The rest of Team Con can be killed by the immense firepower of the Cube or the strength and skill of Superman/Wonder Woman.
-Refer to my strategies from round one.

VICTORY TO TEAM PRO!

I find it funny that my victory hinges on killing Magneto, while my opponent's victory hinges on his crazy and nonsensical cutscene power.

***

Thanks for the fun debate, Mongeese!

[1] http://www.mariowiki.com...
[2] http://yugioh.wikia.com...
mongeese

Con

"-Superman and Wonder Woman are FAST. They can get Magneto before Yugi separates the battle."
Regulation of Tribe. All superheroes can't attack.

"-The Borg Cube can move at warp 21. It can get out of range of Magneto to buy time, or it can shoot Magneto and quickly leave. Magneto may control metal, but he is not immune to powerful phasers and photon torpedoes..."
Yugi can discard Kuriboh, protecting Magneto and himself from damage for the duration of one turn, in which Brain Control can be used.

"Impossible."
It's a temporary defense for Yugi and Magneto. It protects them from any damage for one turn. They can be unscathed long enough for Brain Control.

"-Durandal could convince Yugi not to.
-If he somehow does anyway, Durandal could convince Yugi to listen to him anyway. He could convince Yugi that Durandal's intentions are more righteous than Yugi's."
The Eye of Truth says, "Durandal is trying to get you killed."
That's the most convincing argument, right there. He trusts his deck more than he trusts some foreigner, anyways.

"True, but Superman is far faster than Dark Magician. Superman could kill the Magician before he knew what happened. If that somehow does not work, Superman can still dodge the attacks since he can move faster than light."
Irrelevant, now, because of the Regulation of Tribe.

"-What is Flamin' Head mode? I see no references to it on the Mario Wiki page [1]."
It's the name given to Ganondorf's godly form, which is just his flamin' head. See Video 1.

"-So there is no known (to me) way to defeat Ganondorf. This is a violation or rule 2."
Fused Shadow. Or, you could use water. That would do it.

"-Superman's heat rays are not quantifiable in terms of ATK. They may be greater than 4700, considering how strong Superman really is."
Regulation of Tribe. Or Mirror Force. Or Magic Cylinder.

"Makiu does not put out heat rays [2]."
In the anime, it was used to wash away poison, and put out smoke. It generally does anything that mist can do. See Video 2, 1:20.

"-That's just the show. The official rules dictate that only five monsters may be in play at a time."
The show is the canon that I'm using.

"The fastest they can possibly spawn is the speed of light. Superman flies faster than light, so he can get through."
So, Superman can surpass the speed of light, but Kuriboh can't?

"Superman does not watch cutscenes!"
The two rules of cutscenes:
1. They only occur within one specific dimension.
2. By the end of the cutscene, all playable participants of the cutscene are no worse-off than they were before.
(For example, if Link gets pushed off of a twenty-story pillar in a cutscene, he lands with the same amount of health that he had before.)
Therefore, it doesn't matter what you do in a cutscene. Everything reverts to how it was. Superman is in the cutscene.

"It doesn't matter: Superman can catch up to Link and then kill him."
Link is transformed.

"Really? How?"
Collected Power. Step 1 of my plan.

"-Magneto is dead...."
We'll see about that.

"He can zoom up to someone at 10 times the speed of light, punch the person, and zoom away. Repeat."
Every time he tries, he becomes weakened by Metallo. That's the reason he hid in the first place.

"Oh, so he can decide how much Shadow Realm he wants!..."
Yes. Anyways, Kuriboh still protects Yugi and Magneto from harm due to its card effect.

"-Durandal could get inside the Queen's brain, which is not metallic..."
Brain Control. Durandal and the Borg Queen are now at Yugi's disposal.

"They copy Durandal into it. Durandal can control a Cube."
From Round 1:
"For the sake of fairness, let's assume that he exists within the Borg cube and will die if the cube is destroyed."
I destroy the Borg Cube with Magneto. Durandal dies.

"That will take a while, giving the Cube plenty of time to blow up Magneto..."
I have left nobody to run the Cube. The Cube can't do anything about it. The driver has been brainwashed.

"My opponent means until the Cube blows up Yugi and Magneto..."
This did not end up as he anticipated, so he has no more Borg Cube.

"-There is no reason whatsoever why Superman would watch the cutscene."
He doesn't watch the cutscene. He is in the cutscene.

"-Cutscene-watchingness was not listed as one of Link's powers."
It's Ganondorf's. It's a power shared by all video-game villains.

"Yeah, so Magneto can't help Metallo."
You don't list anything that Magneto's helping Metallo from, so...

"Fine. I still kill him."
Cutscene.

"Then the Cube blows up Yugi, Link and Magneto."
Kuriboh.

"Yugi is dead."
Kuriboh.

"Why the heck not?"
From my plan:
"Ganondorf creates a barrier similar to the one he used against Link in the epic climax of Twilight Princess."

"My opponent's new strategy hinges on Yugi and Magneto, who have been killed by the Cube."
Kuriboh, Kuriboh, Kuriboh.

"-Yugi and Magneto are dead."
Kuriboh.

"-The rest of Team Con can be killed by the immense firepower of the Cube or the strength and skill of Superman/Wonder Woman."
The Cube has been ripped apart.
Regulation of Tribe.

"-Refer to my strategies from round one."
You have no strategies from round one.

"I find it funny that my victory hinges on killing Magneto, while my opponent's victory hinges on his crazy and nonsensical cutscene power."
The cutscene power doesn't have anything to do with Yugi and Magneto.

Anyways, here's the play-by-play:

Yugi uses Collected Power to transfer Wonder Woman's equipment to Link, and Regulation of Tribe to stop all superheroes from attacking him, and then shrouds himself, Magneto, and the Borg Cube in the Shadow Realm.

Durandal tries to convince Yugi to do something stupid, but he puts too much trust in his Eye of Truth card for this to work.

The Borg Cube attempts to destroy Yugi and Magneto, but Yugi uses Kuriboh to save the two of them from harm. This gives Yugi enough time to use Brain Control to control the entire Borg Collective, and he sacrifices them all to the Winged Dragon of Ra. BORG QUEEN ELIMINATED.

Magneto rips apart the Borg Cube, erasing Durandal from existence. DURANDAL ELIMINATED.

Ganondorf and Link stall everybody else with an epic cutscene in which Ganondorf uses a huge string of insults against Link, so nothing really happens for a few hours until Yugi and Magneto return.
Or, Ganondorf challenges Link and Metallo to an insult contest, and he accepts. Ganondorf creates a barrier similar to the one he used against Link in the epic climax of Twilight Princess. The rest of Team PRO cannot interfere until Ganondorf pulls off the final put-down, which doesn't happen until Yugi and Magneto return.

Yugi and Magneto return from the Shadow Realm, and plays Change of Heart, controlling Cable.
Cable is sacrificed to the Winged Dragon of Ra. CABLE ELIMINATED.

Wonder Woman is eliminated by the Winged Dragon of Ra, Fused Shadow Link, and Flamin' Head Ganondorf. WONDER WOMAN ELIMINATED.

Ganondorf creates a barrier around Superman, wherever he is, until Magneto gets Metallo there. Superman can't escape, and crumbles to the overexposure to Kryptonite. SUPERMAN ELIMINATED.

TEAM PRO ELIMINATED.

VICTORY TO TEAM CON.

"Thanks for the fun debate, Mongeese!"
Thanks, MTGandP. This was great.
Debate Round No. 5
32 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
This debate is one counter-votebomb away from being fair. Consider posting it in the counter thread in the forums.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
No, actually, we never went anywhere. The Shadow Realm enveloped the Earth-like planet.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
Spell Check will miss errors such as typing "be" instead of "he", since "be" is technically a word. Maybe you did something like that.

But actually, you did break a rule. You moved the debate to the Shadow Realm, which violates rule 1. I didn't catch you before the debate ended, though. So does it count? I'd say yes.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
Apparently, I broke a rule, but as far as grammar goes, I make sure that it is flawless. I even run my arguments through Word's Spell Check.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
It would seem so. Did you violate any rules or make any grammatical errors?
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
MTGP, it look as if somebody gave you all seven points.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
"[Pro] put himself at a vast disadvantage by allowing the majority of the battle to take place within the Shadow Realm."

I feel dumb now.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
Wow. Only one outside vote in three days, while my other UTW debate got plenty of votes in seven hours.

I call shenanigans.
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
Highly entertaining but a bit disorganized. Going line by line that way can get confusing haha.

C: Pro - Con concedes violating Rule 2.
S & G: Tie
A: Con - Pro had a seemingly superior team but put himself at a vast disadvantage by allowing the majority of the battle to take place within the Shadow Realm. Since Yugi has a counter for nearly every situation, this presented an impossible obstacle for Pro.
S: Con - In keeping with Ultimate Battle voting rules, sources and arguments are assigned to the same side.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
Someone else needs to vote already! Hopefully several people, but at least one outside vote would be nice.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Kinesis 5 years ago
Kinesis
MTGandPmongeeseTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: There we go.
Vote Placed by untitled_entity 7 years ago
untitled_entity
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Vote Placed by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
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Vote Placed by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
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Vote Placed by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
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Total points awarded:50