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The Contender
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Ultimate Team War: Super Thunderdome 2

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/16/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,255 times Debate No: 28304
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (2)





This is Ultimate Team War. Each debater must assemble a team of five characters, and the teams will then fight to the death(ish). Since we cannot have an actual real-life battle, each debater will explain why their team is superior during this debate.

Team leader: One of the debaters here, i.e. me or my opponent
Team member: One of the five chosen warriors.
Team Pro: My team.
Team Con: My opponent's team.

1. This war takes place in the "Super Thunderdome 2", a battlefield like that created by drafterman and myself. It is based on the Thunderdome from Mad Max, but expanded and redesigned. It is a cage sphere, made of some unbreakable alien material that no character can escape from or manipulate. It is mesh like (like the dome in Mad Max) and the sky can be seen above. It is perfectly round. The diameter of the sphere is 10km. It is buried halfway underground, so only a dome is above the ground. It is buried in the middle of an alien planet with near identical properties to Earth, however none of the matter of this planet can be manipulated by any abilities or powers the participants may have (so a telekinetic person could lift a chunk of the ground but someone like Poison Ivy or Sandman wouldn't be able to gain any advantage). This particular part of the planet resembles a grassy field. The matter making up the ground is very much like grass covered earth, but is subject to the aforementioned manipulation restriction. This rule is in place to avoid the clever loopholes I always get stung with where my opponents choose someone who has some mastery of the environment or gains some advantage from it. No such advantages will apply in this battle! If you think your character or strategy violates this rule, don't accept the debate or don't choose that character.
2. Though escape is impossible, I must reiterate; no member of either team is able to leave the sphere.
3. There will be no demi-god characters that are capable of travelling at ridiculous speeds, shattering almost any barriers in their way sustaining little damage to themselves, and wiping out anything, like Superman or Sentry, or anything more powerful than that. Nor will there be any unlimited powers that cannot be resisted. If you're in doubt, just ask.
4. Other illegal powers include time travel and mind control (taking over an opposing character).
5. Any team member must be either real or, if fictional, verifiably existent. No characters may be made up for the purpose of this debate.
6. In the case of a fictional character, the team member's abilities must be according to a specific canon chosen by the team leader.
7. Every character has only the equipment that they generally have in the specified canon.
8. Team members are absolutely loyal to the team leader and will do whatever is required, even if it is alien to their usual behaviour.
9. The team leader may not directly participate in the competition, but may only facilitate. The role of the team leader is to explain what the team would do and why it would win against the opposing team.
10. Neither team can have a member in common. If one team leader chooses a team member, the other team cannot have that character.
11. A team wins when all members of an opposing team are dead, unconscious, or essentially unusable. Characters who cannot be dead, unconscious, or unusable are not allowed.
12. In Rounds 4 and 5, neither debater may introduce completely new arguments, only new counter-arguments or clarifications of older arguments. In Round 5, CON may not post any new counter-arguments, except to counter new counter-arguments or clarifications.
13. The winning team automatically receives Arguments and Sources. Conduct, in addition to regular things, goes to the person who follows the rules most effectively. Please remember this rule.
14. No two characters from the same canon (Baldurs Gate, Marvel, Star Wars for example) may be selected. This simply makes the battle more diverse.

Round 1: Rule specifications; PRO unveils first three team members, CON unveils all five team members. PRO also chooses the location of his team at the start of the fight; CON then chooses a different location.

Round 2: PRO unveils his final two team members and explains why his team is better. CON also begins his arguments.

Round 3, 4, 5: Arguments and rebuttals. CON may not present any new arguments during round 5, since PRO has no chance to rebutt them.

So without further ado...

Team TV

MEMBER ONE: Jon the Shattered One [1.1]
The powerful wizard and main antagonist of Baldur's Gate II. Capable of not only escaping Spellhold [1.2] but taking control and using it for his own experiments to regain his soul. An expert on destructive magic. [1.3]


MEMBER TWO: Legacy Era Luke Skywalker [2.1][2.2]
The prodigal son himself. By the legacy era, Luke had fought in countless battles, fallen and returned from the dark side and become Grand Master of the Jedi Council he helped build himself. A true master of the ways of the force and one of the most powerful beings in Star Wars lore.


MEMBER THREE: Iceman [3.1]
Ice, ice baby.



Team LM

MEMBER ONE: Enel (1.1)


The primary antagonist of the Skpiea story arc in One Piece. After eating the goro goro no mi, he became a lightning man. A fearsome opponent and one not to be trifled with.

MEMBER TWO: Dr. Strange [2.1]

Powerful wizard and sorcerer Supreme.


MEMBER THREE: Yui Kato [3.1]

A powerful psychic and a tactical genius.


MEMBER FOUR: Dr. Fate [4.1]

Powerful wizard and sorcerer Supreme.


Sosuke Aizen [5.1]

Legendary soul reaper and the longest running antagonist in his series.


Rule Stipulations/Observations:

(1) Should either debator stumble across an ability of a character that in itself violates the rules, note of this by itself is insufficient to prove that said character is not allowed. As long as a character is not seen using a forbidden ability, the character is allowed to be employed for combat. The policy justifiction for this is that the overall goal of the instigator's listed rules is to keep the competition fair. By not using abilities that are otherwise forbidden, the competition remains fair.

(2) Any and all discussion regarding clarification/definitions should be restricted to the comment section presuming potential disputes can be resolved.

(3) As I don't see where the instigator has provided the location of his team, I shall not provide the location of mine either. Pursuant to Stipulation/Observation #2, this can be resolved in the comment section before round 2 commences.
Debate Round No. 1


MEMBER FOUR: Asuna Kagurazaka [4.1]
I had never heard of this character nor this anime prior to this debate, but given the 2 extremely formidable magic weilders my opponent chose, I searched out the absolute best anti-magic character I could find. This is her. Skills alone she is worthy of being in the battle, but her natural magic cancelling abilities [4.2] make her an extremely valuable member of my team.


MEMBER FIVE: Aang, the Avatar [Age 40; 5.1, 5.2]
This is Aang at the peak of his abilities, as a full grown adult and complete master of the four elements



My opponent and I have agreed to have all our fighters begin together, outside of the range of each other on the opposite side of the dome. Since the arena was specifically designed so that neither would gain an advantage based on the battlefield, this simply leaves a 5 on 5 battle.


Unfortunately I have less than 5 minutes left to post this round and I simply don't have time to begin this battle. Consider this round a forfeit and my opponent may begin. I've streched my DDO time a bit thin with moderating a mafia game and beginning this debate at the same time, but I will respond with gusto for the remaining rounds. Apologies to Logical-Master.



Greetings members of For this debate, I have four alternative strategies that my team could employ could to guarenteee victory. I shall explain each in detail. Note, however, that if you are convinced that even one of these strategies is sufficient, I have done my job and you are obligated to vote CON.

Before we begin, I ask that you not take into account the fact that the instigator forfeited a round when you consider who to vote for. I waive any and all advantages this would bring me. I only ask that you vote by preponderance of the evidence presented in regards to which team would prove triumphant.

Also, to offer one last piece of clarification, I'm using Sosuke Aizen before he lost any of his abilities, but not when he gained immortality.


Default Battle Prepation:

The very instant the battle begins, I'd order Yui Kaito to erect his ten meter territory around himself [1]. Pursuant to Kaito's abilities, no violence is allowed inside the territory[2]. Moreover, for this battle, Kaito has stipulated the following rules: 1) Any enemy combatant must face members of team LM in a game of Twenty Questions. 2) Anyone who violates the rules inside Kaito's territory will instantly lose their soul[3]. 3) Anyone who loses the game will lose their soul[4]. 4) By leaving the territory after entering, anyone on team TV will lose the game, thus lose their soul by default. 5) Once the game of 20 questions begins, players will have 10 seconds to ask a question and 10 seconds to answer. Failure to ask/answer a question within this time limit will result in an automatic loss for the time in violation of this rule.

Next, I'd have Dr.Fate create a psychic link for every member of team LM[4.5]. A psychic link is a psychic power that establishes a permanent or semi-permanent connection between two (or sometimes more) people's minds [5]. In creating this link, team LM could share their thoughts and perceptions.

Next, I'd have Enel use his mantra ability. During the Skypiea story arc of One Piece, Enel was able to use this ability combined with his electromagnetic powers to sense the precise actions and conversations throughout the entire island of Skypiea[6]. Skypiea is a massive island well over 10 kilometers in diameter [7]. Therefore, since this battlefield is the current battle is merely 10 kilometers in diamater, Enel would easily be able to detect everything throughout.

Next, I'd have Dr. Strange use his magick to detect everything throughout the battlefield. As he has once demonstrated himself proficient in detection to the point of scanning an entire galaxy, he'd have no trouble scanning the battlefield [8]. I'd order strange remain in this meditative state and keep a constant watch on the battlefield.

Thanks to the psychic link, both Enel and Strange's abilities allow Team LM to maintain constant awareness of the entire battlefield, including the members of Team TV. Furthermore, setting up everything discussed above could be done seemlessly within the period of five seconds.

Strategy #1:

Aware of Team TV's presence, Dr. Strange teleports all of Team TV (with the exception of Asuna Kagurazaka) into the Kaito's territory. Dr. Strange has shown himself more than capable of teleporting enemy combatants at his leisure [9] There, they are to face Aizen and Kaito in a game of Twenty Questons. Given Aizen's superior intellect in comparison to Team TV's members, he'd have no problem attaining victory in a battle of wits [10]. Unable to resist participation in the game at the risk of losing their souls, they'd each lose their souls, hence wiping out 80% of Team TV.

Elsewhere, I would have Enel zip to Asuna Kagurzaka's location and proceed to spam El Thors at point blank range[11]. Through being hit by constant streams of electricity at temperatres that exceed the surface of the sun, Asuna would be burned to a crisp in no time [12].

Strategy #2:

Dr. Strange transports Yui Kaito (thus his territory) and Aizen to Team TV's precise location. Aizen proceeds to activate his shikai, Kyoka Suigetsu [13]. This allows Aizen to control an enemy's five senses after said enemy as seen his sword[14]. Aizen flashes his sword before the eyes of the enemy team and proceeds to eliminate their sight and hearing. Upon doing this, Kaito starts the game of 20 Questions. Having no way of knowing what has been said/asked, they have no way of really asking/answering questions and thus lose by default. With all of their souls in Kaito's collection, they lose the game.

Strategy #3:

Enel, accompanied by Aizen, bolts to Team TV's location. Upon arrival, Aizen using his shunpo skills to get in close at lightning speed[15]. He then unsheats his Shikai, Kyoka Suigetsu, to effectivally cutoff Team TV's senses. With their senses cut off, Aizen proceeds to slice and dice everyone on Team TV whereas Enel helps with frequent use of point blank El Thors. Team TV is effectivly cut to pieces and/or burned to a crisp.

Strategy #4:

In addition to everythign in Strategy #3, after Aizen uses his shikai, Dr. Strange warps to the area and casts a mass sleep spell on everyone in Team TV except Asuna [16].


As you can see, any one of the strategies provided is sufficient to decimate Team TV. I now await the instigator's first rebuttal.


[2] Id.
[3] Id.
[4] Id.
[14] Id.
[15] [start at 7:17] ; [start at 8:16] ; see generally

Debate Round No. 2


tvellalott forfeited this round.


Disregard the forfeit when voting. I waive any and all advantages that come with it.

Debate Round No. 3


I know this is going to be a terrible disappointment to my opponent but I am simply too hectic right now to put the effort into this that it deserves. As many of you know, my partner and I have just had a second child and I simply can't spare the two hours or so I need to write a valid response. Add the fact I've already forfeited two rounds and this debate is over before it's began.

Furthermore, I made a fatal mistake with my choice of Aang, who violates my own rule about minipulating the environment with his abilities. The idea was that he could redirect lightning attacks, but that wouldn't work as I intended it to anyway. Basically he is fodder and with the strength of my opponents team, I consider this a loss already. To top it off, I am unfamiliar with all of my opponents choices; I have no idea how to respond to my opponents strategies without a significant amount of research and I can't justify it right now.

I extend the DEEPEST apologies to my opponent for wasting his good time and ask that, if possible, we schedule a rematch for the new year when things aren't so busy.

Peace, Logical-Master. I hope this doesn't make you think less of me. I'm serious about the rematch. I love UTW but because I only do them every 6 months, I always forget how time consuming they are.


No problem, tvellatott. Life, especially child raising, should always take precedent over fooling around on a debate site! Congratulations on your second child. I wish you the best of luck!

I'm not sure I'll have time for rematch as I have matters to attend to. Nonetheless, I'll hold to you that rematch offer and will look into the next time I come out of hibernation!

Have a happy new year!
Debate Round No. 4
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Logical-Master 3 years ago
I don't really intend to use Strange/Fate offensively. I see this as an RPG game, in which mages typically play support/crowd-control roles. In those terms, and pursuant to strategies 3-4, Enel and Aizen are the tanks/DPS-dishers respectively.
Posted by Maikuru 3 years ago
Good thing for L-M's rule stipulations because maybe half the characters here are against the rules lol.
Posted by Logical-Master 3 years ago
That sounds reasonable. I accept your terms for the location.
Posted by tvellalott 3 years ago
I think in terms of location we should just start out of range of each other on opposite sites of the battlefield, together.

I have my last two warriors picked so once you agree (or we discuss this further) I'll begin.
Posted by tvellalott 3 years ago
Oh my goodness. Logical-fvcking-Master.
Couldn't have hoped for a better opponent.
Posted by singingboy2 3 years ago
Would black bolt be unusable
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceded. Well done by Con; ingenious character choices and battle tactics. I look forward to a potential rematch.
Vote Placed by Chicken 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: FF and Concession :/