The Instigator
lord_megatron
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
tejretics
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

Ultron ( pro) vs Thor (con)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
tejretics
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/26/2015 Category: Movies
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 607 times Debate No: 74207
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (2)

 

lord_megatron

Pro

I am taking Ultron against Thor
tejretics

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
lord_megatron

Pro

Lets start then. Ultron's boss model was made of vibranium, same metal as Captain America's shield, so Thor's hammer will have a lesser damage effect. Also, Ultron was mentioned to be 'All over the net' and was trying to hack nuke codes but was stopped by Jarvis. This time none would stop him, and his army was basically clones of him so we have 1000 Ultron's vs 1 Thor. Thor Odinson, without reinforcements is no match for the might of Ultron.
tejretics

Con

==Clarification==

This debate will consider an outcome of a battle between Thor Odinson of the Marvel Comics mainstream and Ultron of Earth-616 (Marvel Comics mainstream). The resolution is "Ultron would defeat Thor in a battle". I thank Pro for this challenge.


RI. Number of Ultrons

The resolution concerns Ultron vs. Thor, in SINGULAR. It is not specified that Thor is facing more than one Ultron. It will take Ultron time to make more models of himself, and the resolution concerns ONE Thor against ONE Ultron, as it is specified as singular.

RII. Metal

First, Ultron is *not* made of vibranium, but of adamantium. [1] In Avengers #66, Thor is able to successfully dent major portions of adamantium with a *single* strike from his warhammer Mjolnir. [2] Therefore, Mjolnir is able to dent and damage adamantium.

==Arguments==

CI. Powers

CIA. Mjolnir

"[Thor] can throw Mjolnir at several times the speed of light and also swing Mjolnir at several times the speed of light while his strength was reduced in half. It has been established that the speed of Thor's hammer transcends both time and space." [3]

By general relativity, if anything travels faster than the speed of light, it can effectively slow down time itself. [4] "[Thor] has the ability to use Mjolnir to travel through time. By spinning Mjolnir faster than light, Thor can open a portal to the fourth dimension of time to travel to the past and the future. By swinging Mjolnir in a precise manner, Thor can circumvent time by creating a time warp around certain areas." [3]

If Thor can circumvent and control time, then he can effectively *slow* Ultron's movements in time while attacking with equal speed. The force of Mjolnir at many times the speed of light will always call tachyon particles by definition of tachyon. [5] In the Marvel Multiverse, tachyons, when summoned, create a "tachyonic field" to strengthen anything to be stronger than vibranium or adamantium, as seen in the case of the Silver Samurai's Muramasa blade. "[Harada is] able to generate a tachyon energy field from within his body. Though he can focus this energy through anything, he typically focuses this field through his sword; allowing it to cut through almost any substance." [6] Therefore, when Mjolnir, which can already dent adamantium, has a tachyonic field around it, it can easily damage adamantium.

The chronokinetic powers of Mjolnir will effectively restrain Ultron from attacking Thor while damaging the adamantium of Ultron.

CIB. Thor-Force

Thor's life-force, the Thor-Force, allows him to generate massive projections of energy from Mjolnir. [3] These include energy such as the anti-force, which is propelled into the God-blast, which was powerful enough to defeat Galactus, one of the most powerful entities in the Marvel Multiverse. [7] A single God-Blast generates enough energy to effectively destroy small planets. [3] Ergo, it can easily penetrate the adamantium of Ultron's exoskeleton, and even manage to defeat *many* Ultrons.

CII. Power Grid Ration

Thor
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 7
Speed: 7
Durability: 7
Energy Projection: 6
Fighting Skills: 5
Total: 35/42

Ultron

Intelligence: 4
Strength: 6
Speed: 3
Durability: 7
Energy Projection: 6
Fighting Skills: 4
Total: 30/42

On balance, Thor is 11.90% more powerful than Ultron comparing with the power grid (5-point difference).

==Summary==

1. Thor's powers are greater than Ultron.
2. Thor is 11.9% more powerful than Ultron.

The resolution is resoundingly negated.


Sources

[1] http://tinyurl.com...;
[2] http://tinyurl.com...;
[3] http://tinyurl.com...;
[4] Hawking, S.W. (1988). A Brief History of Time. p. 21. (Chapter 2, "Space and Time").
[5] http://tinyurl.com...;
[6] http://tinyurl.com...;
[7] Thor Special, #1 (1999).
Debate Round No. 2
lord_megatron

Pro

You have not watched the movie version I see.
In Avengers 2, Ultron steals vibranium which allows his main bot to grow bigger and be made more durable. Captain threw his shield but Ultron just went back a bit as if it was an over sized cricket ball.
If Thor would have been able to go as fast as the speed of light, then Quicksilver would have been no problem for him. Although he was grounded by his hammer, it was only that Quicksilver tried to hold it that brought him back in normal time. Otherwise the throw had already missed.
Even if it would be 1 Ultron vs 1 Thor, Ultron would win. This is based on the movie version.
Plus Ultron can escape if things go wrong, for only Vision was able to shut him out of the internet.
tejretics

Con

==Clarification==

Pro and I discussed in a PM this topic, and we *both* decided to retain the Earth-616 mainstream Marvel comics version of the characters. But Pro is arguing based on the MCU version, which is *not* Earth-616. Therefore, these arguments are invalid.

RI. Quicksilver

Quicksilver is *not* with Ultron in this scenario, as it is Ultron vs. Thor with no interference.

==Arguments==

CI. Earth 616 vs. MCU

Pro is arguing for an MCU version, which has no particular statistic that allows for the comparison of the characters. As seen in my Clarification, we are arguing for the Earth-616 variation ONLY. These arguments and contentions are invalid.

CII. Unrefuted Arguments

None of my arguments have been refuted by Pro in any manner whatsoever. I extend all my arguments. I have refuted all of Pro's contentions.

==Conclusion==

Thor's chronokinesis and God-blast alone can destroy Ultron, and this debate is about the Earth-616 variation only. I have refuted all of Pro's arguments, but Pro has not even attempted to refute mine. The resolution is negated. Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by tejretics 1 year ago
tejretics
Thanks for voting, AdithyaShark and Ragnar.
Posted by lord_megatron 1 year ago
lord_megatron
I need a screenshot you didn't ask to vote for yourself.
Posted by tejretics 1 year ago
tejretics
So what if I asked voters to vote? I DID NOT ask them to vote in my favor. I just said "could you vote on this".
Posted by lord_megatron 1 year ago
lord_megatron
you asked voters to vote? double-cheating!
Posted by lord_megatron 1 year ago
lord_megatron
You just said Earth 616. You didn't say comic version.
Posted by lord_megatron 1 year ago
lord_megatron
How am I supposed to know Earth 616 is a comic model? It may be the number of the movie Ultron clone. I didn't even read Marvel comics.
Posted by tejretics 1 year ago
tejretics
In our PM, I clearly said Thor Odinson vs. Ultron (Earth-616). You accepted. Earth 616 is the *mainstream* Marvel comic world. I *clearly* said Earth-616.
Posted by lord_megatron 1 year ago
lord_megatron
no you didn't say comic version. I was taking quicksilver's example as Thor wasn't able to see him, yet he is only traveling at the speed of sound. So how can Thor go at the speed of light but still be swept off his feet by Quicksilver???
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 1 year ago
Ragnar
lord_megatrontejreticsTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Repeated moving the goalpost, that was almost all pro brought; not even any sources. Con on the other hand brought a well researched case including Thor's (however lame) ability to time travel by spinning his hammer so fast.
Vote Placed by AdithyaShark 1 year ago
AdithyaShark
lord_megatrontejreticsTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: I will vote on this as Con requested me to. There was a large confusion as to whether follow the movie variation or the comic variation. But Con's clarification *clearly* mentioned Earth 616, and Pro did not specify it in any manner. Con was the first to specify that they would be following the Earth-616 variation, so I will go by it. Con effectively demonstrated how Thor's powers could slow down time itself and Mjolnir, with the additional force of a tachyonic field, could seriously damage the adamantium "exoskeleton" of Ultron. Furthermore, Con showed how, by the statistics, Thor was 11.9% more powerful than Ultron and could defeat him. Pro's arguments lacked clarity and were not backed up by any sources. Therefore, sources and arguments, together 5 points, to Con.