The Instigator
spazybanana
Pro (for)
Winning
18 Points
The Contender
dulinl
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points

Universal Health Care

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/13/2007 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,119 times Debate No: 378
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (8)

 

spazybanana

Pro

Universal health care is cost effective. In other countries that have a universal health care system they only spend 10 percent of their gross domestic product (GPD). Currently in the United States we spend 15 percent on health care sporadically. So we would be saving 1 to 2 billion dollars per year if we had universal health care. It would also get rid of medicare and Medicaid because these would not be needed. There are currently 47 million individuals like you and me who do not have health care. This is 16 percent of the population. In the preamble of the constitution it states to promote the general welfare. Are we really promoting the general welfare when we have 47 million people without health care insurance?
dulinl

Con

"Universal health care is cost effective. In other countries that have a universal health care system they only spend 10 percent of their gross domestic product (GPD). Currently in the United States we spend 15 percent on health care sporadically."

First off if we're going to debate on cost I suggest we only save money on your care. For me I want anything that can be done to be done, cost be dammed!

"It would also get rid of medicare and Medicaid because these would not be needed. "

Yes, it would. However, that's only because Medicare and Medicaid are limited universal health care. Focused for ppl that we as a society know have sensitive health needs and have no means of providing care for themselves. If your argument is that it would be good getting rid of them then that is proof that universal health care is flawed.

"There are currently 47 million individuals like you and me who do not have health care."

Of these how many just choose not to have it. Single healthy men often don't worry about it. How many are illegals that shouldn't even be here? Now what's the number down to? sight your source sense you gave a specific number.

"In the preamble of the constitution it states to promote the general welfare. Are we really promoting the general welfare when we have 47 million people without health care insurance?"

Welfare in the constitution doesn't mean what you think it does. Welfare as you know it was 1st introduced in the Great depression, for obvious reasons. At the time of the writing of the constitution welfare basically ment safety.

My additional argument is that I agree we could do better in health care in the US. I propose a tax credit for people that purchase their own. Currently employers get tax credit for buying it for you, but if u get it there is none. So, by providing an incentive more ppl will buy their own. That will make the market more competitive and that equals lower health cost.

Other universal health care systems in the world are not doing well. Ppl die waiting for surgeries and such. In the UK ppl are pulling their own teeth. IN Canada they go to the US for care if they can afford it, because the wait for care is so long. In Cuba when the President needed serious help he didn't trust his universal health care system he flew ppl in, lol!

Truth is, based on performance and what comes out of R&D our health care system is the best. We just need to spark more competition in it to drive down prices and increase service.

We also need to limit illegal access to our health care. Currently, no one is refused care if they go through an emergency room. So, where do illegal go? To the emergency room, for everything. What is the 1st thing a hospital closes if it needs to save operating cost? The Emergency Room!
Debate Round No. 1
spazybanana

Pro

First about your source argument. I got that number from the connecticut coaltion on health care. Secondly there is a pool of people that dont qualify for medicaid because they make too much money but yet their employers dont offer health care and they cant afford regular health insurance. They could make 50 dollars to much to qualify for medicaid. While Im on the subject of Medicaid and medicare, we would not need them if we had universal health care because they would NOT BE NEEDED. You should not just look to those countries that you stated. There are plenty of other countries that have universal health care that have good health care. Bill clinton once said as we undertake this journey of change we clearly must preserve whats right with health care system the close patient doctor relationship the best doctors and nurses and the best academic research in the world. If we adopted a universal health care system then we WOULD have the best health care in the world. And I highly doubt that people are removing their own teeth. That seems a little unrealistic to me. And about your emergency room argument. That is voting for me so why did you say that? Since emergency rooms cannot deny care people without health care come in for things like ear infections. This is horrible expensive and the cost is passed down the insured. You may have heard of the 10 dollar aspirin. The aspirin does not cost this much but this is how much hospitals need to charge to make up the money lost because of these uninsured people.
dulinl

Con

dulinl forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
spazybanana

Pro

spazybanana forfeited this round.
dulinl

Con

dulinl forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by spazybanana 9 years ago
spazybanana
Im currently a legi debater and one of our domestic topics was healthcare. I wrote a bill about how we should have universal healthcare and have an opt out option to have private healthcare. We cannot deny the fact that universal healthcare dosent allow you to pick your own doctor which sucks. So this opt out option would be like the school system. (and no boss 99, I dont have kids or have a paycheck. Im not even out of high school yet) Anyways, people pay taxes to send our kids to school but there are some who pay extra to send their kids to private schools.
Posted by NSG 9 years ago
NSG
It isn't about the rich, who can afford to simply go outside the established system by buying their own health care. The issues are really about how to provide health care to the poor and how to keep the middle class from being over-burdened by whatever system we put in place to help the poor.

First, I think we can agree that those who can afford health care should pay for it themselves, not have others pay for it for them.

Second, I think we can agree that all people who need health care should get it regardless of whether they can afford it or not.

But a universal health care plan that is run by the government won't work. It CAN'T work, because government bureaucracy is too big to allow it to work. Governments are there to deal with big issues and problems of an entire country, not the small problems of individuals. It is simply not designed to respond to the problems of individuals. When they try to do so, they fail, every time.

Plus, there's the point that "free" universal health care isn't free. If you lived in Sweden, then you would know what the tax rates in Sweden are like. Yes, they have universal healthcare for everyone, but it is slow, inefficient, relatively low quality (compared to the USA), overextended and they are paying 60%+ of their income in taxes for this system, which makes it a lot more expensive than anything we have here.

I think that the best way to get the poor to take control of their own health care is twofold: 1) with tax incentives as a positive incentinve, as you suggested, and 2) through disincentives and time limits for free health care, similar to what we have done with welfare. In essence, the carrot and the stick.
Posted by Boss_99_smk 9 years ago
Boss_99_smk
You must be kidding. Have you looked at your paycheck? Do you not see that areas that says Federal Taxes? You already pay in, it is called taxes. Everyone does.
Have you ever heard of Medicare or Medicaid? You are already paying, just like everyone else is.
Are you saying that by the "fruits of your labor" that you should keep every dime that you make and never pay taxes? If that is so, then how are you going to get to work if the roads and bridges are not taken care of from the tax money that we all pay.
What about your kids education? Do you have kids that go to school? Well, I don't so why should I have to pay for YOUR kids education? It really is quite a silly argument. DO you have any other points that you would like to make? I am not sure what your argument really is. I bet you are really upset about all of those bottom feeders that wait in line for welfare too,. right? I'm interested.
Posted by Klashbash 9 years ago
Klashbash
Your argument contradicts itself Boss_99_smk. If this is the land of the free why should I be forced to give up the fruits of my labor for somebody else's problems? It's not my fault somebody got a heart attack. Nor should I be punished when somebody has smoked his whole life and developed cancer. The wealth I created by my own labor is mine. Nobody has a right to take it from me. What you advocate is theft.
Posted by Boss_99_smk 9 years ago
Boss_99_smk
please do not forget about the 50% of all bankruptcies in America are due to the lack of health care. Also, if you honestly believe that those in the other countries hate having national health care then you probably still believe that there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!
I'm sure that you will find people to complain about some small issues in the system, but we have already had Medicare and Medicaid going on for years in America and things are just fine for those people. In the land of the free and home of the brave the almighty dollar will not stop being king because of a national health care system. It means that you will not have to choose between sending people to their graves early because they cannot get the care that they deserve.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by Chob 9 years ago
Chob
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Vote Placed by hark 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by UberCryxic 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by spazybanana 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by righty10294 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by NSG 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by aaltobartok 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by SeanFromIT 9 years ago
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