The Instigator
firemonkey6775
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
Harlan
Pro (for)
Winning
24 Points

Universal health care

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/7/2008 Category: News
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 915 times Debate No: 1497
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (10)

 

firemonkey6775

Con

i will post first in the second round i am not totally agianst universal health care but i find it often absured
Harlan

Pro

Before I start, please excuse any typos, as my right wrist got a bit messed up.

In you're first post you wrote a sentence about what you believed. You said you would post in the second round, so that is excused. It doesn't quite seem fair to make me show my cards first, but I guess I will just get more arguments.

Here are some facts:

-1/2 of bankruptcy filings in 2001 were related to medical issues. Out of those medical bill-related bankruptcies, 75% HAD INSURANCE. It would greatly benefit citizens. The government is in place for the well-being and state of life, of its citizens.

-It is estimated that about 18,000 die each year because they do not have medical coverage.

-from 1981 to 2001, the number of these bankruptcies related to medical issues increased 2300%.

-In 2005, there were about 47 million Americans uninsured. 9 million of whom were children. Compared to 300 million people that live in America, that figure is very large.

-5% of all cancer patients go uninsured at their diagnosis.

-The congressional budget office determined that universal health care WOULD SAVE 100-200 billion dollars a year. So you can not make the claim that it would be bad for the economy.

I assert that the health and well-being of the citizens of a country should be an important priority. Health and well being is a natural right of all people. Having to pay individually for health care makes it so that the upper class get medical service while those who cannot afford it simply don't go to the hospital, because they know that it will make their family's lives very difficult. For many people, the cost of a medical bill can be a good portion of their annual income.

The health insurance business does not actually cover all that much. They, (HOPEFULLY unlike the government,) do not care for the customers very much, but instead of their income. WE can not rely our personal well-being on a corporation that is concentrating on profit, and not our health.

Corporate bureaucracy cannot be the determining factor in whether an individual dies!

So how, then, is the idea of health absurd. How is the vision of all people –rich people AND poor people- being able to get MEDICAL CARE. This is extremely important. Their well-being is not absurd, at all.

Your turn

-Harlan
Debate Round No. 1
firemonkey6775

Con

well here is what i belive is wrong with universal health care is that i will pay x amount in taxes because of how much i make and lets say that is $5,000 dollars lets say bill gates then pays $100,000 for his health care but both of us get the same amount off attention from the doctors. The element of universal health care also takes out the competition of hospitals which stops them from trying to serve us and makes them do as much as they think nesscary not to get fired. If universal health care was to come about i think there should still be hospitals were i can go put down my dollar and get the attention i need cause i can pay for it yes people may die cause they are poor and cant afford health care is this the goverments fault or there fault?
Harlan

Pro

"well here is what i belive is wrong with universal health care is that i will pay x amount in taxes because of how much i make and lets say that is $5,000 dollars lets say bill gates then pays $100,000 for his health care but both of us get the same amount off attention from the doctors"

You should really try to put that into individual sentences next time.

Yes, and the same thing goes for libraries, schools, the police department, and the fire department.

I could hardly think that Bill Gates will suffer from a high tax.

It is good so that America is not broken up into distant social classes.

"The element of universal health care also takes out the competition of hospitals which stops them from trying to serve us and makes them do as much as they think nesscary not to get fired"

This, apparently, is only theorization. England has Universal health care…and this has not been going on there.

It takes out the competition of health insurance businesses, but not hospitals.

The hospitals could still make profit.

And as for government hospitals, it would be the same as a library or the fire department.

"If universal health care was to come about i think there should still be hospitals were i can go put down my dollar and get the attention i need cause i can pay for it yes people may die cause they are poor and cant afford health care is this the goverments fault or there fault?"

Is it there fault that the health insurance industry is a bunch of capitalist fat cats who make very high prices and cover very little, in reality?

NO.

EVERYONE deserves health.

Not just you, because you apparently make a salary over $150,001. It is a natural right of all people.

My opponent, alas, cannot see things from the eye of one who becomes bankrupt from a single, very ordinary and simple hospital bill. He, from his privileged stand point, would rather pay for his own health care, letting others DIE or go into bankruptcy, then pay a SMALL tax for them.

Almost every one goes to the hospital at least once in their lives (this is not including birth 8)

You have unfortunately ignored my points. The readers can obviously observe that my opponent ignored all my points from round 1. They can see that he might not have even read it.

A PERSON'S LIFE TRANSCENDS CORPORATE BEAURACRACY.

-Harlan
Debate Round No. 2
firemonkey6775

Con

ok now to make my oppent feal better i will adress everyone of his issues

"1/2 of bankruptcy filings in 2001 were related to medical issues. Out of those medical bill-related bankruptcies, 75% HAD INSURANCE. It would greatly benefit citizens. The government is in place for the well-being and state of life, of its citizens."
No this is wrong the purpose of the goverment is to punish the evil and to defend from outside threats. second you know what insurance companies are not here to pay your bills there there to follow a contract you signed and if you were to stupid to read the fine print well you desevere to die cause of natural selection.

"It is estimated that about 18,000 die each year because they do not have medical coverage."
yet once again not the goverments problem whose fault is it that they have not worked to get what they need to survive.

"In 2005, there were about 47 million Americans uninsured. 9 million of whom were children. Compared to 300 million people that live in America, that figure is very large."
ok the 9 million that are childern i am sorry for them. the other 38million that is there own fault.

"5% of all cancer patients go uninsured at their diagnosis."
agian not part of the goverments responsibilites.

"The congressional budget office determined that universal health care WOULD SAVE 100-200 billion dollars a year. So you can not make the claim that it would be bad for the economy."
This just says were being cheap and not spending the 100-200billion that is nescary for those 263million to be insured and adding ther stress of another 47million.

i posted this in my second argument
"well here is what i belive is wrong with universal health care is that i will pay x amount in taxes because of how much i make and lets say that is $5,000 dollars lets say bill gates then pays $100,000 for his health care but both of us get the same amount off attention from the doctors. The element of universal health care also takes out the competition of hospitals which stops them from trying to serve us and makes them do as much as they think nesscary not to get fired. If universal health care was to come about i think there should still be hospitals were i can go put down my dollar and get the attention i need cause i can pay for it yes people may die cause they are poor and cant afford health care is this the goverments fault or there fault?"
my point was not that bill gates would suffer from taxes but that he would suffer from not getting the help he needs. So far this is what your entire argument has said to me those who dont work and dont pay there fair share in taxes should get the health care that those who sweat every day for it should get while they get ignored cause they work hard. that is what your argument says to me.

ok for the rest of my argument i say if the goverment pays for my health i want free food free heating cause i live in a cold climate i need a free house made so i dont get sick and i need a free chef so he can make sure i am properly feed. how ridiculous does that sound to you.
Harlan

Pro

Harlan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Harlan 8 years ago
Harlan
I gave my closing argument in a sperate debate. PLease vote based on this AND that: http://www.debate.org...
Posted by Harlan 8 years ago
Harlan
IM really sorry that I forfieted. It was a result of procrastination, and the fact that I was of the impression that I had until later tonight before I was autmatically forfieted.

PS. If you wish, we may start the debate anew, as a one round debate, so that I may reply to your last post.
Posted by mindjob 8 years ago
mindjob
It would be great if people would be up on their facts and not get everything they believe from Bill O'reilly or Rush Limbaugh before they get into debates.

For one, everyone is affected by our crappy health system, not just poor people. Companies, who have traditionally offered health insurance to their employees, have to jack up their prices to meet their health care liabilities. Everyone's health bills, both their individual bills and the bills issued to insurance, gets inflated because of other people's inability to pay their medical bills. Employees inability to get preventative care means they have to put off getting treatment until their problems blow up into much bigger and much more expensive concerns. Unhealthy employees are unproductive employees. Universal health coverage would make our entire economy much more efficient and competitive globally.

Universal systems are only inefficient when they try to provide both public and private providers, such as in Canada. And even then, their system is much more efficient than ours. Besides, we could structure a system where coverage is universal, but all doctors and hospitals could be private. They would be competing for patients based on patient outcomes and satisfaction, which is the way it should be anyway.

And how firemonkey can claim that bankruptcies only affect those who file is equally ridiculous. Medical bankruptcies wipe out debts owed to every part of the economy, which then hurts the bottom line of every creditor, forcing them to bump up rates on the rest of us. Firemonkey clearly has no understanding of how our economy works.

And for those of us without coverage, I'm sorry we all can't be as wealthy as firemonkey. IF we all made $150,000, there would be no one to build his cars, flip his burgers, grow his food, build his house, or so any other job for him that might not make 150,000 doing it. Yet these people deserve to live just as much, if not more, than firemonkey
Posted by Stashu18 8 years ago
Stashu18
yo harlen my debate on global warming is done i was wondering if you could vote and tell me what to do better?
Posted by firemonkey6775 8 years ago
firemonkey6775
Harlan exaclty its a subject that is odd to me
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
No such thing as universal health care. There is universal health insurance, but wait lists result in the long run, precluding the "care" portion :D
Posted by Harlan 8 years ago
Harlan
He kinda sorta maybe doesn't not disagree with healthcare, sometimes.
Posted by Yrael 8 years ago
Yrael
Wait... what? You are going Con on the notion that Universal health care sometimes won't work?
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