The Instigator
Curtis12
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Korashk
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

University isn't useful compared to college as it is merely theoretical rather than practical

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Korashk
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/13/2009 Category: Education
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,722 times Debate No: 10450
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (17)
Votes (4)

 

Curtis12

Pro

To begin with an analogy, college teaches you how to screw in a light bulb, while university teaches you the history of one. The problems with university are endless, but I have 7,000 characters remaining so I must be brief. University isn't practical, its theoretical. It doesn't set you up with a career, it sets you up with a hobby. I think the ideal university student is that of a person 50+ because one can develop a new interest or fascination that they can than gain self-satisfaction, where in earlier life, they really couldn't. With early life, a nineteen year old university student is worried about everything but gaining self- satisfaction. They are worried about passing the upcoming test, remembering the study group on Tuesday and buying beer on Friday. To conclude, the institution of university is for a person whom lives a life of leisure, that of a person 50+, and college is for a person whom wants to develop the practical skills for employment.
Korashk

Con

Thank you for creating this debate.

I will attempt to refute the resolution that compared to college, universities aren't useful.

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Refutations
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"...college teaches you how to screw in a light bulb, while university teaches you the history of one."

[This analogy is very broad and for the most part incorrect. What you learn at a college or university depends not on that institution but what any specific person is studying at that institution. For instance, if I wanted to get a degree in auto mechanics that was offered at a university would you argue that this degree would teach me nothing about repairing cars and would only teach me about the history of automobiles?]

~~~

"University isn't practical, its theoretical. It doesn't set you up with a career, it sets you up with a hobby. I think the ideal university student is that of a person 50+ because one can develop a new interest or fascination that they can than gain self-satisfaction, where in earlier life, they really couldn't."

[Harvard University is one of, if not the, best law school in the United States. Getting a degree in law from here virtually guarantees that you will be sought after for employment by numerous law firms. Also, the idea that a younger person can not gain self satisfaction through a university is absurd.]

~~~

"With early life, a nineteen year old university student is worried about everything but gaining self- satisfaction. They are worried about passing the upcoming test, remembering the study group on Tuesday and buying beer on Friday."

[I ask my opponent to explain his view that passing a test would not make a person satisfied with themselves. Studying is merely a means used to gain that satisfaction. I also ask my opponent to explain his view that buying beer for a party is a worrisome activity.]

~~~

My Contention:
University is a title used to describe an institute of higher education and is synonymous with the words College, Institute (Massachusetts Institute of Technology), Academy (United States Military Academy), Union (Cooper Union), Conservatory (New England Conservatory), and School (Juilliard School).

All of the above institutions are considered colleges and simply because a place has a different title does not mean it offers a dissimilar educational experience. As an example, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology is a great place to get a degree in engineering, but so is the University of Michigan [1]. A title only changes how one refers to a thing in this instance, not the style of teaching.

Sources:
[1] http://www.graduateshotline.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Curtis12

Pro

I will stand by my position by saying that yes, a degree in auto mechanics at university would be more theoretical than practical, hands on experience. I think that if one wants to gain practical employable skills, one should go to college rather than university, because in my opinion, university aren't for people who are interested in a trade, but for those interested in the social sciences or the humanities.

I should have been more specific. Depending on the discipline in which one is interested in gaining a degree, university is an invaluable resource. (Ie: Law, Medicine, Business, etc) It depends upon the field, as to whether one should attend college or university.

What I mean by this is that while it gives the student short term satisfaction, it doesn't provide long term satisfaction. Being older (50+) allows one to fully grasp and appreciate the knowledge that is being professed, while when one is a teenager, one isn't able to fully appreciate the knowledge being professed due to other seemingly more important priorities. (IE: Parties, members of the opposite sex, etc)

In closing, the difference between these types of institutions are that of content. While I would agree that a college institution is at the same level of a university institution in engineering for instance, but as I said, it all depends upon the discipline that one wants to obtain to determine which institution is better suited.
Korashk

Con

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Refutations
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"I will stand by my position by saying that yes, a degree in auto mechanics at university would be more theoretical than practical, hands on experience..."

[My opponent is arguing that the auto mechanics curriculum at a university would not include hands on experience working with cars without providing evidence that shows that in universities hands on experience is not used to teach.]

"...because in my opinion, university aren't for people who are interested in a trade, but for those interested in the social sciences or the humanities."

[An opinion without evidence is only an unsubstantiated claim. As the Pro side of this debate my opponent has the burden of proof to show that universities are only for those interested in social sciences and humanities. Even if my opponent were to try and substantiate this claim here is proof that more than just these subjects of study are offered and widely respected at many universities:

*Harvard University School of Business offers case based study [1] and their alumni work in a variety of trade based fields. [2]
*Michigan Ross School of Business uses a combination of course work, class projects, and experimental learning to teach. [3]
*Oxford University offers courses in a much wider variety than those of the social sciences and humanities, including those involving a trade. [4]

From my interpretation of my opponent's statements he states that universities do not offer courses that teach trade fields which I have dis-proven.]
~~~
"I should have been more specific. Depending on the discipline in which one is interested in gaining a degree, university is an invaluable resource. (Ie: Law, Medicine, Business, etc) It depends upon the field, as to whether one should attend college or university."

[So now it is practical in situations such as obtaining a law or medical degree, but not in other fields. I again say that the fields offered by an institute of higher education do not depend on what title the founders of that institution gave it and my opponent has yet to refute that claim and provide evidence to support his position.]
~~~
"What I mean by this is that while it gives the student short term satisfaction, it doesn't provide long term satisfaction."

[I would hardly say that passing tests only provides short term satisfaction as in many college courses tests make up a majority of the grade. Therefore passing tests would correlate to passing courses, which correlates to earning degrees. Earning a college degree is something that usually provides satisfaction for an individual.]
~~~
"...when one is a teenager, one isn't able to fully appreciate the knowledge being professed due to other seemingly more important priorities."

[This statement is a generalization. Simply because a statement applies to a part does not mean that it also applies to the whole. My opponent needs evidence to support this claim or it is an empty one. Appreciation of information is not a requirement to gain satisfaction from it and whether or not someone appreciates information does not affect its overall quality and usefulness.]
~~~
"In closing, the difference between these types of institutions are that of content..."

[My opponent has done nothing to refute the claim that the content of an institute of higher education has nothing to do with that institutes's name. My original contention stands.]

*****

I look forward to your responses.

Sources:
[1] http://www.hbs.edu...
[2] http://www.hbs.edu...
[3] http://www.bus.umich.edu...
[4] http://www.ox.ac.uk...
Debate Round No. 2
Curtis12

Pro

We live in a very 'status' society where a university degree is considered 'top of the line' and a college diploma is considered 'a step down.' It has been noted that a four year university graduate make $250,000 or more than their college counterparts. However, this has been disproved by April Norhanian, a former college recruiter. She wrote a book called "College Is for Suckers –The FIRST College Guide You Should Read." She states how despite ones credentials, it doesn't necessarily guarantee oneself a career or even a job. Furthermore, she asserts that university bound students don't necessarily even need to go to university because without a four year degree they would still make the same amount of money and be as successful because they have already developed a strong work ethic and other related traits. She states that if a student is in the bottom forty percent of his or her high school class, they will have a very difficult time in graduating university even if they are given eight and half years.

To conclude, does one really need to spend $30,000 for a four year BA degree. My answer is no.

http://collegeisforsuckers.com...
Korashk

Con

++++++++
Refutations
++++++++

"We live in a very 'status' society where a university degree is considered 'top of the line' and a college diploma is considered 'a step down.'"

[Not according to my first contention which states that colleges and universities are only different in name. My opponent has dome nothing to address this point and it therefore stands. A college degree is a college degree and the prestige is not garnered from going to a university. The prestige is garnered from going to an institute of higher education that has a well known name. This could be one with the title university or any other synonymous title.]
~~~
"Furthermore, she asserts that university bound students don't necessarily even need to go to university because without a four year degree they would still make the same amount of money and be as successful because they have already developed a strong work ethic and other related traits."

[I watched the video provided in your link and it does not address going to a university. It argues that you do necessarily need a college education to do well. This goes against your original arguments and is in fact evidence that supports my position. This debate is not whether a college education is useful, it is about whether or not colleges are more useful than universities.]
~~~

In conclusion my opponent has neglected to defend himself against my rebuttals and even contradicted himself on at least two occasions. I stick to my original contention that a university is different than a college in name only and this point has not been refuted. I thank my opponent for having this debate with me and strongly urge a Con vote.
Debate Round No. 3
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Mangani 7 years ago
Mangani
This debate should be titled "Squares are better than a shape with four equal sides" or "Sweet potatoes are better than yams" or "Whiskey is better than corn liquor" or "Mountain lions are better than cougars" or "Orcas are better than killer whales"... get my point?

While many colleges don't offer graduate degrees, some do. While most universities offer graduate degrees, some offer only one and perform far worse than many colleges. While many institutions of higher learning are officially title Universities, like Harvard University, they are also called colleges, like Harvard College. Some colleges, like graduate colleges, are dedicated to graduate degrees. Some colleges are smaller units within a University, like University of Maryland University College.
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
Thank you Kleptin. I totally missed the word "more" in that sentence when I read it.
Posted by Kleptin 7 years ago
Kleptin
"My opponent is arguing that the auto mechanics curriculum at a university would not include hands on experience working with cars without providing evidence that shows that in universities hands on experience is not used to teach."

Your opponent actually stated that it would be more theoretical than practical, not that there is no practical component at all.

It's a minor point, but if you're already in a dominating position, it might seem overly aggressive.
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
Kleptin, could you point out my straw man please. My view is too biased towards myself for me to see it.

And MikeLoviN, I might have had a harder time doing well in this debate if my opponent had refuted my contention that a university and college aren't different like you kind of just did.
Posted by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
It was Pro's job to make it clear that he was talking about vocational schools, if that is what he was arguing. He didn't clear that up in the arguments. Consequently, Con could quite legitimately argue that "college" and "university" were essentially the same thing. Arguments and references to Con.

"The definition of a university varies widely even with some countries. For example, there is no nationally standardized definition of the term in the United States although the term has traditionally been used to designate research institutions and was once reserved for research doctorate-granting institutions.[16] Some states, such as Massachusetts, will only grant a school "university status" if it grants at least two doctoral degrees.[17] In the United Kingdom, an institution can only use the term if it has been granted by the Privy Council, under the terms of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992." http://en.wikipedia.org...
Posted by MikeLoviN 7 years ago
MikeLoviN
This debate made me LOL...

but you're right Curtis12, I'm only doing mechatronics engineering in university because designing control systems is a hobby of mine. Nevermind the fact that I'll be making twice as much as you upon graduation. Obviously you've been misinformed as to exactly what a university is.

To our American counterparts, confirming what Puck said, a "college" here is basically the equivalent of a vocational/community college in the US. Universities are (generally) at a higher standard of education.
Posted by Kleptin 7 years ago
Kleptin
P1: Did not define the difference between University and College
C1: Good rebuttals
P2: Concession
C2: 1 straw man, but the rest are good points
P3: Questionable source analysis and relevancy to the debate
C3: Good counter and summary

I won't vote yet, but it is clear that Pro did not fully think out his argument before proceeding with it.
Posted by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
studentathletechristian8
I'm only applying to universities this summer...

Most of the top-notch schools are universities. Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, UF, M.I.T., Duke, Wakeforest, ... I'm really aiming for Duke, Notre Dame, or Wakeforest. Duke for science and business, Notre Dame for engineering, or Wakeforest for law.
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
Puck
Yeah, universities tend to gear degrees with the expectation that it is for future employment anyway.
Posted by Cerebral_Narcissist 7 years ago
Cerebral_Narcissist
This seems like a weak argument, there are many college courses that are purely theoretical and many university degrees that are required for certain jobs.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
Curtis12KorashkTied
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Rezzealaux
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