The Instigator
Heisenberg13
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
athenaforce
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Use of the Death Penalty as punishment for capital murder and sex crimes.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/29/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 631 times Debate No: 53683
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Heisenberg13

Pro

In the case of capital murder and life destroying sexual crimes, the death penalty should be allowed, as it is a powerful deterrent and, if the criminal takes it upon themselves to take control of the life of another and ruin it/ take it, the state/federal government should reserve the power to do so as well.
athenaforce

Con

Hello, and I look forward to calmly and politely debating with you. First of all to start my argument, life is truly wonderful thing, in the christian (Or most mainstream religious views) we were created by a great deity and are their greatest creation, In an atheist or agnostic view we are a species evolved to such an extent that we have gained not only sapience but sentience. In both of these views it is truly amazing that we are humans and should take great pride and respect for lives. Of coarse the crimes that you speak of in this debate are absolute atrocities that shames the human race, but we as human cannot and should not decide who lives, and who dies. Because if we do this are we any better than the murderer? While of coarse we did not kill in cold blood while they did, how can we as humans truly deserve who gets to die and who gets to live. Second of all can you please link me to a source that shows that the death penalty is a good deterrent to these horrible felonies. Thank you. Also when I think about crimes and jail, the thing that i am not scared about is getting killed from the death penalty. The thing that deters me and probably deters others from even thinking of doing these crimes is being locked up in some cramped jail cell with a bunch of other murderers and rapists for the rest of my life. Being in a place until the end of my days without being able to do anything and lose your entire life's chance is much scarier than dieing to me. Kind of like I would rather die than be a vegetable for the rest of my life. Why? because there are fates worse than deaths and if we truly want to punish and deter criminals I think that the best coarse of action is to show how horrible living in prison for the rest of your life is. many (But of coarse not all) who commit these crimes are not afraid of death, (As shown by many mass shootings where it ends with the shooters suicide) some who commit these crimes are in a part of thier life where they want to die or are hurting so bad they need to let someone else die or get sexually assaulted. Also new studies and reports are giving signs that lethal Injections is not as humane as we thought. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com... Then you must think about the doctors or executioners having to do these executions, can you imagine the regret and sadness they must feel. Not only are we letting 2 people die all for waste, but also condemning the executioners and their mental state. Thank you for listening and I look forward to your counter thesis.
Debate Round No. 1
Heisenberg13

Pro

Hello. May I start out by saying that I greatly appreciate you being polite and debating without getting emotionally involved, as you are the type of person that makes debating fun. Now to my counter thesis. While test results have been found to be mostly inconclusive, Ernest van den Haag, a Professor of Jurisprudence at Fordham University, has studied the effect that the death penalty has on felony rates, and he believes that, as people have a great fear of death brought on by our natural desire to survive, the death penalty can serve as powerful deterrent. If you would like to read about this, here is the link. http://deathpenaltycurriculum.org... Also, as you stated before, many hard criminals are put in prisons together. So, would it be fair to a person convicted of a marijuana possession charge to be placed in a jail cell with a convicted serial killer, who could easily kill the marijuana trafficker? No it would not, so the only way to truly prevent a killer or sex offender is to be rid of them. Third, while it is not common, prisoners do escape. In 1998 (the last year the statistic was taken to my knowledge), 6,530 prisoners escaped from state-level penitentiaries. While this is only a small fraction of the prisoners currently in state prisons, it is still 6,530 convicted criminals that are free to do as they please, such a harm witnesses or exact their revenge upon testifiers. To address your argument that lethal injection may not be fully humane, I just read the article and it mentions that many of the inhumane injections were a result of poorly trained doctors and poor standards, which can be corrected. As long as the doctors are adequately trained and closely monitored, the procedure can be humane as possible. For my final argument, I address your argument on the feelings of the doctors/executioners. I would like you to think of the common American soldier. While in the line of duty, a soldier may very well have to kill an enemy combatant, which they will do, as they know it is there job and they do it for the good of the state and their fellow citizens. As long as the doctors know before hand what they are getting themselves into and that they may have to take a life in the line of duty, they will be able to come to terms with what they have done and realize it was for the good of the whole.
athenaforce

Con

Thank you for your kind words at the beginning I personally am for the death penalty but I thought it would be interesting to go against it. So now here is my counter argument. So first of all I want to thank you for leaving a source for your evidence about crime deterrence.
"many hard criminals are put in prisons together. So, would it be fair to a person convicted of a marijuana possession charge to be placed in a jail cell with a convicted serial killer, who could easily kill the marijuana trafficker? No it would not, so the only way to truly prevent a killer or sex offender is to be rid of them. "

Yes well while I might be wrong the prison system is set up in 3 major types. Local and county prisons, which hold lower crimes and are the first buildings to get new criminals while they are being processed. These prisons hold people for things like neighborhood disturbances and minor assaults. Then there is the state prison system. There are two subdivisions of this system, low security state penitentiaries and high security state penitentiaries. Low security state prisons are where they house criminals who have done pretty large crimes but have not been repeating offenders. Criminals in these places are minor drug dealers and major assault crimes. While I know in my state that Illegal Marijuana dealing can bring at most a few years in a low security state prison and one large fine I can't be completely sure about the rest of the country. High security prisons hold the people who have murdered, raped, and sold drugs on a massive and dangerous scale. Though again the high security state prisons are then broken up again. Te top layer is the mental health ward. Where they house the mentally ill or people who have been deemed dangerous to themselves or others. Then there is the medical holdings. This is where they keep prisoners who have either injured themselves greatly or has been injured in some way. Then there is what correctional officers call floors 1-4. Floors 1 and 2 hold prisoners that are just about to get out and have been deemed by on site physchologists that they are mentally fit to be around other inmates. This floor would most likely hold the repeating marijuana dealer you were speaking of. Anyone who has committed a dangerous capital crime or is aggressive in any way are not allowed on these floor's. Then there is floors 3 and 4 this is the place where they keep the bulk of the people who have committed capital crimes. They have 6 hours out of their cells and can have contact with people in the 6 hours. Then there is The Advanced Segregation unit, this is where they keep the aggressive and hostile inmates that cannot be around other inmates. SO in most likeliness people with low crimes are kept in different areas than the murderers. Though you may be speaking about the people who have committed 3 or more felonies that may or may not have been actually serious nd they are being held in the federal correction facilities. While it is highly unlikely that a marijuana dealer who has not been part of a major and dangerous gang is in a federal prison I guess it is no impossible, and I would truly have the greatest sympathy for that person. Because federal prisons are where some of the worst of the worst go. And they are more likely to be dangerous as you have stated. But then they would keep the marijuana dealer who unluckily has used up his 3 strikes in a more safe part of the prisons but if you have evidence against this please do tell, I would always love to learn more about it. Now to address your argument that we just need better doctors and personnel to handle these procedures. You are absolutely right if they keep the death penalty then we should go through major changes with the docs to make sure these prisoners die humanely. Lastly I would like to argue your analogy of the professionals killing these men are just like soldiers and should not feel bad and know what they did is right (please correct me if I'm wrong and I am misinterpreting it) Studies have shown that soldiers are being plagued by depression and PTSD. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov... and most studies have shown that there is a high correlation between depression and PTSD with suicide.http://www.ptsd.va.gov... and if you go down a little on this website you will see that 15% of people with clinical depression commit suicide http://www.save.org.... Not only that but correctional officers have shown to have higher PTSD rates than veterans http://www.healthcentral.com... But I don't feel comfortable or honourable just pointing out counters to your arguments so I will as well bring some more arguments so that you have a chance to as well counter next discussion. The truth is, we don't know two cents about the effects of capital punishment on our corrections officers as well as the jurors or judges. Because we as humans have empathy, even towards people who have wronged us. It is one thing that makes us amazingly unique. We have not fully studies the emotional and mental strain capital punishment brings to the people who have to watch and come in contact with a person for potentially years like officers of corrections do. Even though I am for capital punishment both my parents became correction officers, and they both suffer from paranoia and anxiety and depression, and many people in that system have committed suicide or became mentally unstable. Capital punishment not only effect the criminal, but the judge and juror, the officers, and the executioner. We need to properly give these innocent people treatment and study this sadly unstudied topic before we can keep punishing the innocent that were sworn to protect us.
Debate Round No. 2
Heisenberg13

Pro

Heisenberg13 forfeited this round.
athenaforce

Con

I thank my opponent for doing the two rounds he did do and hope you vote for the better argument from those two rounds.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by athenaforce 3 years ago
athenaforce
I hope my opponent comes back online soon.
No votes have been placed for this debate.