The Instigator
buttercupx224
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points
The Contender
Ragnar_Rahl
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points

Users of this website should have to provide reasons for what they choose to vote for

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/14/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,511 times Debate No: 1788
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (11)

 

buttercupx224

Pro

When people vote, they often don't read the entire arguement, and vote based on their personal views. This is about who does the better job of debating! When you vote, you should fill a checklist of their overall performance in the debate, possibly on a scale of 1-5 or 1-10
for example:

Grammar and spelling: 7
Ideas: 8
Refutation of opposing side: 6
Originality: 3
etc. etc.

This will encourage people to read the entire debate and not to vote without just reasoning.
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

Every debate that has taken place is saved. Thus, checking the votes against the debates gives you full disclosure about the quality of voters available.

Although it would be nice to know who has voted for who, comments already allow you to provide reasons.

Let the full iniquity of voters be on display. If they vote for trash, don't discount the vote, it defeats the point. Just keep in mind that they sanction trash, that they are trash. If you forbid them from voting, you don't learn they are trash :D.

A checklist or scoring standard would become a time waster as many of the sections might not apply in some debates.
Debate Round No. 1
buttercupx224

Pro

The checklist wouldn't be specific, and could be something that could apply to all debates. For example, since the only way you and I are communicating is through typed words, we, of course have to have good spelling so that we can understand each other. If U WUz TiPEn LiiK DiiiZS, I would have a difficult time decoding your words. Things such as grammar, spelling, word choice, and ideas all come into play when deciding who to vote for. All too often people vote based on their personal opinion, as opposed to the quality of the debate.

Also, comments are not mandatory, and often people will vote without reading the entire debate. Another debater did a test and deductively proved that most readers don't read the entire debate

Heck! I bet half of the people on this page wont even read my full rebuttal!
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

Nothing in debate.org's rules implies they can't vote based on opinions. Hell the primary goal of debate is to get people to share your opinion, presumably, so the votes in that sense indicate achievement of the goal.

I don't know who did this supposed "deductive proof," but a statement about what "most readers do" by definition CANT be deductive. Most is an inductive term.

You can bet whatever you please, but it doesn't make a difference nor does it save the time that not having a checklist saves.
Debate Round No. 2
buttercupx224

Pro

As someone said in a comment below, people aren't ignorant to the purpose of voting in debates, What I am saying is that they usually know who to vote for beforehand, without even reading the debate.
Besides, how long does it even take to fill out a checklist? It isn't a big deal, and it will encourage people to fully understand the debate.
The rules may not imply that you have to debate based on the quality of the arguement, but it is silently understood that the reader puts personal opinions aside and votes based on who did the better job arguing.
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

If it's understood, we don't have a problem, and there is nothing to fix. If it's not, which I hold, then since the rules say nothing about the purpose, again there is nothing to fix :D.

I don't know of people who vote without reading the debate... can you mention any examples? Seems speculative.

A checklist will not encourage people to "understand the debate..." because they won't spend the time on it... they'll just fake filling it out, most of them, and then we'll have false information on our hands. False information is worse than none.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by buttercupx224 9 years ago
buttercupx224
I like the idea of mandatory comments though..
Posted by dalzuga 9 years ago
dalzuga
That would be pretty judgmental. Also, it would encourage dishonest voting. (AKA 10's on all points even if punctuation is completely f@#$ed up) I mean, c'mon.

Logical-Master:

<< other than to get rid of the voting system and simply have user comments serve as a means of letting debators know how they did >>

Wow I also used to think that. However, I found a way to make things better though. Requiring users to provide a comment along with the vote would be a realistic solution.
Posted by buttercupx224 9 years ago
buttercupx224
If the was a checklist, the debaters would have the opportunity to read the list, so instead of simple points, there would be a checklist of who won what parts.
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
By the way, I don't believe most people are ignorant of the purpose of voting in a debate (which is to decide which side presented the better arguments). I think many people come in knowing who they are going to vote for in advance (sort of like how people vote based on which party they have given their allegiance to).
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
So far, I dislike the pro's plan as merely adding such depth to the voting system would not decrease the overall problem of users not reading arguments, voting just to piss off the guy/gal who won, or voting because of their opinion on the topic. In fact, there really isn't a realistic method which can be employed to reduce the problem with the voting system other than to get rid of the voting system and simply have user comments serve as a means of letting debators know how they did.
11 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Jamcke 9 years ago
Jamcke
buttercupx224Ragnar_RahlTied
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Vote Placed by lorca 9 years ago
lorca
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Vote Placed by kenicks 9 years ago
kenicks
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Vote Placed by Smarticles 9 years ago
Smarticles
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Vote Placed by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
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Vote Placed by dalzuga 9 years ago
dalzuga
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Vote Placed by buttercupx224 9 years ago
buttercupx224
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Vote Placed by patriots16-0 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by crazypenguin 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by solo 9 years ago
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