The Instigator
ejphoenix
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
didorus
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points

Using Taxes for "Free" Higher Education in the US

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
didorus
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/11/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 364 times Debate No: 86449
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)

 

ejphoenix

Pro

Being that this is a topic of interest in the media, and the current presidential runnings, I would like to have a debate over whether or not the United States should institute a socialized college education system, where student tuition comes from taxes and government subsidies. I will be arguing the "pro" side of this debate.

Our current higher education system is broken. While many educational institutions claim that student education is the utmost important thing, money seems to be of far more interest. If it were true that education was that important, universities would seemingly be more likely to choose the student who has worked hard to maintain a high GPA, and have the highest grades, but that is not the world we live in. We live in a world were average, mediocre grades are accepted much more often than those of higher standards when accompanied by a large tuition check. Because of this, the students who worked hard are pushed aside, and our country continues to sit at 34th in mathematics, 27th in science, and 45th in literacy.

Creating a socialized higher education system would change this. Making a tuition-free environment, and subsidizing educational systems using our taxes, would discard the need for the large tuition check, and would shift the focus to the students who have worked hard to go to school.
didorus

Con

I accept and will argue for the pro side of the debate.
Our country is 34th in mathematics, 27th in science, and 45th in literacy because of free education. Suppose you want to buy a car. You worked for 10 weeks, 48 hours a week, in order to get this car. You used all that money to buy this car. Because you worked so hard for it, you will care for that car, and treat it like a baby. Your satisfaction will be much higher because you worked and worked for that car. But if you were given money and bought the same car, by definition you will appreciate the car much less.
The same goes for education. Although the literacy rate in the US has grown, the Russian Federation's has a much higher literacy rate and Tertiary education rate. Their literacy rate is 99.7% and Tertiary education rate is 53%, both the highest in the world. The Russian Federation Government provides Elementary and Secondary Education, but nothing more. They don't provide Grants, Subsidies, or Federal Student Loans. This is exactly why their education rate in general is so good. When the Federal and State Governments started to help students pay for college, the prices shot up. Supply and Demand created a need to raise prices because there was more money to pay for college. The more a customer can pay, the more the supplier will charge.
If you want to provide college for all Americans for free, why don't you blow up Wall Street first? The taxes on the "rich" and "greedy" oil companies and billionaires will destroy the market. Because the businesses are taxed so heavily, they won't have enough money to safely invest into new businesses or projects, slowing down the economy, and eventually hurting those you were trying to help. This will bring the economy into a downward spiral, and soon there won't be any money left to pay for those schools. While this seems drastic, this will eventually be what will happen.
Another point is that wages all over America will go down. Because being educated is free, there will be a surplus, a large surplus, of skilled workers. By the laws of economics, this will bring the value of labor down. The more of something there is, the less it is worth. Not only would this hurt the future worker, it would destroy past workers. Students that have gone into debt in the past will be at a severe disadvantage because the education that they had past acquired and for it paid masses of money, they won't be able to pull out of debt.
You might say "freedom and equality for all" to justify your reasoning for this funding. In the end, you are just taking it away. You would be taking the people's freedom to prosper and work by taxing them and redistributing that money. That would be a form of embezzlement. You would sacrifice the Rich's rights, who are a minority, to fund the poor's irresponsibility?
Debate Round No. 1
ejphoenix

Pro

I think the analogy that you provided about having more appreciation for a car that was purchased with your own, hard-earned money was perfect, and I tend to agree with it. That being said, I think the metaphor is a little misguided. You assume that because the tuition of school is free, the student body will take the education for granted, but I do not believe this to be true.

Some of the economic effects of providing free education that you have listed in your argument are true; creating a binding price ceiling has been proven to create a shortage of supply and a surplus of demand - but that alone is not the only effect. In this case, that shortage will directly result in the appreciation mentioned in your metaphor. Because there ar less opportunities due to a lessened supply, the market for education will become more competitive on the demand side; and because acceptance is no longer tuition-based, that competition will be directly reflected in the student body's grades. The appreciation does not come from working hard to earn money to spend on an education, but from working hard to do get the highest grades. Which, as a tertiary effect, would also raise our country's education rankings.

Additionally, I only mentioned that we add an additional tax, but I did not say that we would tax the rich, specifically. It would be possible to add a housing tax, based on the proximity to an educational institution, like they do with public K-12 education institutions, or how many individual students a parent has, or any combination of specific taxes. "Additional taxes" does not explicitly mean taxing the rich.
didorus

Con

An additional tax is vague. But every tax that ever is enacted always ends up hurting the people. And since the top 10% pay 70% of the US's taxes, any additional tax is mainly upon the rich.
To go along with that, your argument based upon student's valuing school based on grades is invalid. Providing education for free gives everyone free education. Have you heard the phrase "saying everyone is special is another way of saying no one is"? This goes with education. If everyone has something at no direct cost to them, it has far less value to them. Given, there are a select few "nerds" (like us) that appreciate their education and strive to make their lives better through it, but as a whole, people don't value school.
Debate Round No. 2
ejphoenix

Pro

ejphoenix forfeited this round.
didorus

Con

The deciding factor of the matter is this: is the cost of free education worth the benefits?
Here are the benefits for free education:
1. Education will be widely available for all
2. The Tertiary education rate in America will go up
Cost for free education:
1. More taxes overall, which lowers the value and potency of the economy, gradually destroying the US economy. As John Marshall said, "The power to tax is the power to destroy."
2. Educators will be paid less/Knowledge will go down in value because that which is widely available is worth less.
3. Takes away more rights of the people.

The depth of the matter is this: 66% of jobs in the USA does not require a college degree. If we were to offer free higher education for all, and if 70% of graduating students moved on to college, half of those students who got a degree will not find a job that would relate to their degree, and the money spent on that degree will be wasted. What is the point of providing free college education if most of it will be wasted?
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by dude100 11 months ago
dude100
Big Business is constantly looking for ways to exploit us, whoever believes the Idea that debt is a good thing is a fu**ing idiot. They raise the cost of living, and force us to go into debt, so that they can make more excess profit that they don't need. Fact every time we "free" the market, Big business takes advantage of it and takes a sh*t on us our debt gets, even deeper and their wallets get thicker. In truth, and you can call it a debatable one but I'm just looking at the pattern here, this time it was because congress passed a law that allowed all banks to hand out virtually as much money as they wanted with absolutely no collateral nor credible backing. Thus the reason why the real estate market plummeted and entire communities foreclosed and abandoned because the people that believed debt is a good thing decided to take on a few more mortgages bc they couldn't afford the cost of living. And heres the thing nobody ever says who has to pay for this debt, noooo they just push it on to the next generation and hope that they won't notice or complain. Well now it's our turn to pay up and look whose complaining now.
Posted by dude100 11 months ago
dude100
Of course taxes are hurting the people dumbass they're taxes! nobody wants to pay taxes, what I'm asking you to do is to look at the alternative. less jobs and anarchy? or more jobs and stability. We all know what happens when big business goes unregulated we need to make sure that they can't keep doing this to us. Your entire approach to economics is based on the assumption that big business is going to do the "right" thing and delegate the money where the money needs to go like the other small businesses. hahaha Hell No! they never do that! where the hell are they going to send it to? Oh thats right CHINA! unless you want rest of america to move there, you've got a serious flaw in your economic system there buddy. Sorry to get so carried away, it just bothers me when people aren't very educated on the subject. Think about this, every time our country is thrown into economic distress, what do we do? we resort to socialized reform. It's not a matter of debate this is a fact, every time the s**t hits the fan we need socialism to save our asses and then everybody complains about it later because nobody likes to pay taxes. well tough s**t buddy more taxes is the only solution to improving the happiness of our people. what happens when firefighters go unregulated? they stand outside your home and negotiate the price to put out the flames, not kidding they used to do this in ancient Rome.
Posted by dude100 11 months ago
dude100
To con
That is complete and total nonsense, where did you get your degree? Are even educated in economics? Do you even know what socialism is? Okay heres the thing, Nobody says that the kids have to go to college and get their degree. Whatever not a big deal, but for those of us who do want an education, the prices are tooooo high. I tried to go to school for biomedical engineering but even after financial aid and all my scholarships they still wanted to charge me $50000 + and I couldn't afford it. This is something that I've wanted to do since I was a little kid and I can't get there bc the obstacles are ridiculous. Socialism is a matter of moral economics Why you ask? because it is the delegation of taxes to the benefit the people. That being said a completely "socialized society" is called communism which is a bad thing as we've seen with the soviet union and cuba. I'm not saying that taxes should free all school but for the love of god, at least pay for the education we can't live without like plumbers, electricians, health care positions, scientists, engineers, ect... What happens when big business goes unregulated? Monopolies, no minimum wage, riots in the streets. Big Business thrives on unemployment because all of their employees are expendable, if they need to they'll just hire somebody else. Look at our history my friend and learn from it. without labor laws 8 year old children would still be working in sweat shops.... oh wait they still do! what did big business do when we restricted them? they decided to exploit people from other countries instead because they couldn't do it here anymore. Don't ever wonder where all the jobs left to, now you know. If we really want to fix things here in the united states, we have to make sure big business can't drop and run with the money we have to maintain control.
Posted by dude100 11 months ago
dude100
To con
That is complete and total nonsense, where did you get your degree? Are even educated in economics? Do you even know what socialism is? Okay heres the thing, Nobody says that the kids have to go to college and get their degree. Whatever not a big deal, but for those of us who do want an education, the prices are tooooo high. I tried to go to school for biomedical engineering but even after financial aid and all my scholarships they still wanted to charge me $50000 + and I couldn't afford it. This is something that I've wanted to do since I was a little kid and I can't get there bc the obstacles are ridiculous. Socialism is a matter of moral economics Why you ask? because it is the delegation of taxes to the benefit the people. That being said a completely "socialized society" is called communism which is a bad thing as we've seen with the soviet union and cuba. I'm not saying that taxes should free all school but for the love of god, at least pay for the education we can't live without like plumbers, electricians, health care positions, scientists, engineers, ect... What happens when big business goes unregulated? Monopolies, no minimum wage, riots in the streets. Big Business thrives on unemployment because all of their employees are expendable, if they need to they'll just hire somebody else. Look at our history my friend and learn from it. without labor laws 8 year old children would still be working in sweat shops.... oh wait they still do! what did big business do when we restricted them? they decided to exploit people from other countries instead because they couldn't do it here anymore. Don't ever wonder where all the jobs left to, now you know. If we really want to fix things here in the united states, we have to make sure big business can't drop and run with the money we have to maintain control.
Posted by didorus 1 year ago
didorus
My mistake, I am arguing for the Con side of the debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
ejphoenixdidorusTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeited turn by Pro.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
ejphoenixdidorusTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff a round, so conduct to Con.