The Instigator
gr33k_fr33k5
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points
The Contender
xploze
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Utopia is impossible to achieve within any given society

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/11/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 6,326 times Debate No: 10064
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

gr33k_fr33k5

Pro

The topic is pretty self explanatory, however here are the definitions of some of the words. Also, I'll allow the "con" side to make the first argument . . .

Definitions . . .
I. Utopia: an ideal place or state.

Ia. Ideal: A society in which all participants thereof live in complete harmony together.
(I made my own definition for this in order to allow it to relate better to this particular debate, if there is a problem, make your own correction and state it at the top of your first argument)
II. Society: An organized group of persons associated together for religious, benevolent, cultural, scientific, political, patriotic, or other purposes.

works cited: http://dictionary.reference.com...
xploze

Con

First of all I want to communicate my opponent that I had no purpose on taking on this debate but I miss-clicked so I have to go on with it, even if I want or not.

Society: An organized group of persons associated together for religious, benevolent, cultural, scientific, political, patriotic, or other purposes.

I suggest we take a political party as an example, let's say they're the ones in the opposition, they live in harmony together having same goals, ideals, purposes. It's a way of expressing a Utopia state of mind.

Also, the best example possible is the society of religious people, knowing the written law which says the following: "Love your neighbour as yourself" which refers to harmony and even more, peace between people, so, for religious people going to church is more than Utopia, it's the place where they find the one that they believe in, experience harmony and enjoy peace.
Debate Round No. 1
gr33k_fr33k5

Pro

Thank you for taking this debate, and sorry about the miss-click

I will begin with my rebuttal, and then move in to my real arguement . . . .

Starting with your second point,
"the best example possible is the society of religious people, knowing the written law which says the following: "Love your neighbour as yourself" which refers to harmony and even more, peace between people."
This quote comes straight out of the New Testament of the Bible, a quote by Jesus himself i believe. However, the Bible itself stands in my favor because Jesus taught how to live a prefect life, he did NOT however expect people to live this way also, as seen in the verse "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."(3) It is well known that in the Christian Faith God is the only perfect being, therefore, it is impossible for any society to truly "love your neighbor as yourself" due to the sinful nature of man.

As an argument against the idea of a political party . . .
You say that the members of a political party "live in harmony together having same goals, ideals, purposes." this is not necessarily the case.
For example, in Florida on Nov. 9th, a Tea party was formed. This party was largely made up of former Republicans. I would contend that in order for the former Republicans to split there must have been some internal conflicts, specifically the GOPs catering to special interest groups. (2)

Now . . . for the argument
I would argue that it is impossible to truly show that Utopia is impossible, however, i would also argue that all attempts made in the past have failed. These failed attempts ultimately tend towards dictatorship or tyranny.

- An example of this is the Soviet Union. Ultimately this was a nation that tried for utopia however human greed and corruption lead it to tyranny under Stalin.
- Another example is the Synanon communities. Originally a method for rehab and a community for alcoholics/drug addicts that wanted a better life. This society attempted at utopia and ultimately lead to the dictatorial rule of Charles Dederick(1)

lastly, i would like to know if my opponent considers the Bible (NIV ESV King James versions) a reliable source

works cited:
1 ~ http://en.wikipedia.org...
2 ~ http://www.politico.com... ~
3 ~ NIV Bible ~
xploze

Con

If I say Yes to the last question, I might have to deal with several issues that God, Jesus said them in the Bible about the humans and our way of being, sinful, so I'll have to take back my argument about the religious community and I will not debate anymore using facts from the Bible or any religious materials.

Utopia, dictionary, link can be found at the end of the post.
1.an imaginary island described in Sir Thomas More's Utopia (1516) as enjoying perfection in law, politics, etc.
2.(usually lowercase) an ideal place or state.
3.(usually lowercase) any visionary system of political or social perfection.

1. In the book, an IMAGINARY Utopia was reached, so it is possible, it was possible for the author to live in this so-called "Utopia" and for him, it really existed.

2. An ideal place or state- In my country, people see America like the land of hope, an ideal place where they would like to live and die on.

3. Also, as the presidential voting is coming closer and closer in Romania, many of the candidates for the "throne" of Romania keep repeating that their visions for Romania are perfect, the visions that they have for this country, will make it perfect, a semi Utopia.
Debate Round No. 2
gr33k_fr33k5

Pro

gr33k_fr33k5 forfeited this round.
xploze

Con

xploze forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
gr33k_fr33k5

Pro

I would like to offer my most sincere apology about my forfeiting of the last round. . . .I was out of town in the Colorado mountains and had no access to computers, much less internet . . ..

now for my rebuttal . . . . I will deal with each of your three points individually.

[1] The argument clearly states that Utopia is impossible to achieve (emphasis on achieve). The first example that you stated was merely an example of what utopia to the imaginary mind is. Utopia was never truly achieved, it was merely planned out, and the word was given its meaning from the book.

[2] Being American, I know that America is not the "ideal" place. It has its own social and economic problems. Crime is not uncommon and while granted it may be a "better" place comparatively it is no utopia.

[3] For this point I had to sit down and chuckle. C politicians voice "drips with honey" however, when it comes down to it they never truly accomplish what they say they will. Politicians attempt to win votes by claiming that they have a "plan" time and time again. Take for example your own country, Romania. How many candidates have said that their "visions for Romania are perfect." So is Romania now a utopia? A perfect community? Obviously not if the people "see America like the land of hope." (understand that I mean no disrespect in any way towards Romania or the people of Romania)

Now for my own contention

[1] Utopia will never be achieved due to differing views of what utopia actually is . . .
for example:
many religions agree that final utopia will be reached in heaven. However, their views and beliefs of what heaven will be differ. For Christians it is that we will spend eternity praising and living in the glory of the Almighty. However for Muslims, there are 70 virgins waiting for them.(I'm not solid on the facts of this religion, so please correct me if I am mistaken)

-----------------Also note: this is not a "religious" argument, it is merely comparing the two ideas of religions------------
xploze

Con

I've got the flu, not the swine but it's good enough to keep me in bad, I'll have to call this over, you win.

Congrats.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Danielle 7 years ago
Danielle
I'll take this if no one else wants it.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by GeoLaureate8 7 years ago
GeoLaureate8
gr33k_fr33k5xplozeTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
gr33k_fr33k5xplozeTied
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