Vaccination is a fraud (part 2)
Debate Rounds (5)
I accept. Burden of proof is on you to disprove germ theory and vaccination due to the reams of evidence supporting both.
You must use sources which are reputable. Any sources not from research institutions or scientific publications will be ignored.
1.Germ theory is illogical.
If germs kill their host, then, after a short lived evolution, all germs would become extinct. I was watching David Attenborough last night and noted that animals are always careful not to over hunt their prey. When ants attack an white ant nest, they only kill half the white ants, and leave the rest.
Thus, nature is not stupid.
Germs can't think, move, hear, or see. So, how does a germ differentiate between a healthy human and a sick human?
Note - According to germ theory, germs attack humans from an exterior source. Thus, to do this, they must first determine if the human is weak or disabled first.
This is what happens in nature when a predator sees, hears or smells its prey. It must first determine if the prey is catchable. It will look for a weak, isolated or sick animal in preference to a fit and healthy specimen.
Where do cold and flu viruses go to when people don't have colds and flu?
Doctors can't find a cure for the common cold. I wonder why this is so?
Answer - Cold, flu, small pox, measles, whooping cough and asthma are all really all just the same problem - internal toxemia from - eating too much food, lack of vitamins, alcohol, lack of sleep, eating after midnight, grain food, dairy food, sugar and other food concentrates.
2. Disease doesn't occur in nature.
Have you ever seen a sick ant? Answer - Never! Reason - Ants don't get sick unless some human has put out some poison bait.
Have you ever seen a sick Tasmanian Devil? Answer - Never! Reason - Tasmanian Devils don't get sick unless some humans have put out some poison baits, pesticides, herbicides or fire retardants into their path.
That's right! Animals never get sick if left in a pristine and untouched environment. Its only human intervention that can cause disease and cancer.
The same basic rule applies to humans themselves. If humans eat natural foods and live a natural life as nature intended, then, they too, will not get sick either. Humans have strayed far from nature and must pay the price of constant illness, headaches, cancer, arthritis, dementia and neurological disorders.
1. Germs Killing their Hosts
You are totally right in saying that nature is not stupid. You proved my own point with the ant analogy: germs have evolved to achieve balance with the population of humans/animals as the ants live in balance with the white ants. Germs such as Yersinia pestitis (which caused the Black Death) have mostly killed themselves off. Yersinia pestitis was extremely infectious and spread rapidly, but it was so lethal it killed of its own hosts before said hosts could infect other people. The flu virus, on the other hand, is very infectious but not quite as lethal. Most of the hosts that are killed by the flu virus are already weak/old. 
TL;DR: Pro proves my point by saying that nature tends toward balance, therefore germ populations and lethality levels stay in balance with the population of its hosts.
2. Germs Differentiating Between Sick and Healthy
Yes, germs are not intelligent in any way. Yes, germs are more effective in people who are already weakened. However, that does not mean that germs actively seek out weak hosts. If you put a healthy person and an old person in the same room as someone with, say, the flu, then the old person is much more likely to be infected. Why? It's not that more germs went towards the elderly person, rather both parties got the same exposure to the virus. The old person had a weaker immune system, so the same amount of germs met less resistance from the immune system.
TL;DR: The weak are more likely to become sick not because the germ selects to infect them, rather they are not strong enough to fight off invading germs.
3. Where do the cold and flu viruses go to when people aren't sick?
The cold and flu never actually goes away completely. You can get sick from the flu in the summer, its just that the cold virus spreads better in the winter. 
4. Why can't dcotors cure the common cold?
There is no one common cold. Common colds can be caused by many types of viruses, including rhinoviruses (the most common), adenoviruses, enteroviruses, the respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), coronavirus, influenza and parainfluenza viruses, and human metapneumovirus. The rhinovirus alone has hundreds of variations.  However, there are effective antivirals to reduce symptoms and combat the disease.
TL;DR: There are too many viruses which cause the common cold for all of them to be cured.
If toxemia is real, they why do you get sick after tounching someone with Ebola?
6. Disease DOES Occur in Nature
Where did you ever get that naive assumption? Many diseases infect animals. I'll give the exapmles of ants and Tazmanian devils:
Ophiocordyceps unilateralis infects ants in completely untouched Amazonian forests. It may even be able to take control of the ant by secreting chemicals that make the ants more aggresive. 
Tazmanian devils are being infected with an infectious cancer.  It isn't a germ per se, but shows that diseases do occur in the wild. Only 500,000 people live in Tazmania, and it is impossible that they have somehow polluted all of the island's forests.
However, there is hope for the devil. A vaccine is being developed. 
The Ebola virus lives in and is spread by fruit bats. 
TL;DR: There is plenty of proof that diseases exist in the wild.
Onto my arguments:
You obviously won't listen to any of my sources because you'll think that they have been bought out by Big Pharma or the Illuminati. However, let me ask this: what does the government have to gain from disease?
Currently, health care costs the US Government $2.9 trillion.  I'm sure they would immediately release any known cure for all diseases to the general public.
I'd like to point out that none of this matters, since PRO ALREADY CONCEDED THE DEBATE.
In your previous debate (http://www.debate.org...) you stated that iodine is used as an antiseptic during surgery. An antiseptic is a substance that prevents the growth of disease-causing microorganisms. You also specified that it kills pathogens which are bacteria, viruses, or other microorganisms that can cause disease. Iodine has no magical healing power. It merely kills pathogens as you had said. (Thanks to AWSM0055 for pointing this out)
Furthermore, if there were no germs, why would the immune system be relevant? The immune system is built to fight pathogens.
As a final side note, I'd like you to define what a perfectly natural diet and life is like.
The documentary below shows those little red/orange fences which separate the diseased people from the non-diseased people. When the so called 'diseased people' come in for an inspection, to determine if they have Ebola. The doctors are not wearing their funny plastic suits and only have a little red/orange fence with holes in it which separates them from the patients. Now, when someone is diagnosed with Ebola, the person is transferred into a big plastic sealed decontamination tent. The doctor puts on 2 layers of specially made decontamination suits with goggles and breathing mask and goes to examine the person who they were talking to minutes ago without any protection. Now, how stupid id that!
This shows that Ebola is not contagious and that it is a product of pesticide poisoning. The doctors know this, but they just play along with the stupid game, so they can earn big dollars and become a national hero in their country.
2. How do germs INVADE? They don't have any legs to invade with? lol
3. Its not impossible that Tasmania is completely polluted. Its a fact. 90% of the rivers have high levels of herbicide, pesticide, fire retardants and fertilizers in them.
4. What does the government have to gain from disease?
Answer - Border protection laws, pharmacy kickbacks, control over population with more restrictions on people movements. Fear of disease which makes people easier to control by making them scared. More government jobs in policing health issues.
5. "Iodine prevents the growth of disease causing micro-organisms" I never said this?
When you operate on somebody you are cutting the skin and killing some cells. The dead cells can become poisonous. The iodine is what facilitates hormones to fix the problem. Its dead cells which turn into virus, they don't come from exterior sources. (germ theory)
Patients are given halogen drugs to knock them out. Halogens cause iodine disruption and immune system breakdown. This is why you get post operation infections.
6. None of your references are working. lol
1. Ebola is definitely NOT caused by bats with insecticides in their blood and is NOT a fraud. Watch this video for a good explanation on how Ebola infects and destroys the body (Ebola is NOT a nervous system disease): https://www.youtube.com..., before you read another word of my argument, take a look at these pictures: http://www.dailymail.co.uk... dare you say Ebola is a fraud as it takes the lives of thousands upon thousands of men, women, and children!
It is impossible for Ebola to only be caused by eating poisoned bats. Many people have been infected with Ebola who do not eat bushmeat as they live in cities.
The reason that the doctors don't wear full protective gear when they screen potential victims is that Ebola spreads through direct contact with infected fluids. Also, if a patient is not experiencing obvious symptoms, they will not spread the disease. 
Finally, you are disrespecting the memories of the more than 200 doctors and nurses who have died treating Ebola.  They are DEFINITELY not out there to make the "big bucks."
2. Huh. You couldn't see any flaws in what I said so you decide to argue over semantics. Invading is a figure of speech often used to refer to pathogens entering the body and attacking it. Pathogens can be spread and enter the body in various ways. They can be carried on tiny fluid droplets (i.e. sneezing, coughing) or dust particles and then inhaled, ingested through contaminated food or water, spread through direct contact wih skin/body fluids (e.g. STDs), or other vectors such as infected insects (e.g. mosquitos). 
3. Ok. It is true that Tasmania's water is quite polluted. However, that does not explain the fact that the cancer cells sampled from all the devils affected with the disease have exactly the same genome as that of a single female devil. The cancer has been observed to be contagious and the single source has been identified, what more do you want?  You also ignored the fact that ants can get sick. I think I have satisfactorily proved the existence of infectious disease in nature.
4. Did you read what I said? Healthcare costs the US government $2.9 trillion a year. If the government actually wanted to control us through fear, there would be far more effective ways to incite fear than a conspiracy that would literally have to span tens of millions of people worldwide who work as doctors and nurses.
5. What is to say that those dead-cells-turned-viruses could not leave the body and infect other people? Also, please watch this video to actually understand how the immune system works: https://www.youtube.com....
I again say that iodine is a very important nutrient, and iodine deficieny has very nasty side effects.  However, to say that "Big Pharma" is holding back information that iodine can cure all diseases (as you make it seem to be) is dumb. We are provided with iodized salt to combat said iodine deficieny. Why would "Big Pharma" give us a "miracle drug" if they know it would cure us of all disease? In fact, salt iodization led to a 3.5 IQ point rise nationwide. 
Furthermore, your statement that halogen drugs cause iodine disruption is dumb. Did you know that salt is composed of sodium and chlorine? Chlorine is a halogen, yet why are we not constantly being infected due to eating salt on our food?
Halogen anesthetics have been shown to be safe. They can have some side effects such as liver damage, but cases of this are very rare. 
6. Fixed it. Links are in the comments.
7. Okay. How do you explain the fact that diseases are proven to be contagious? Let's use the example of the measles outbreak at Disney recently. You say that the outbreaks were caused by the junk food being sold there. If that is true, why haven't there been more outbreaks of junk-food induced measles at amusment parks across the whole world? Furthermore, you cannot say there was one batch of bad food as there were cases separated for more than a month. Also, there is no way to explain away the fact that only 12% of those infected in the outbreak were vaccinated.  Vaccination might not be 100% effective, but they were able to drastically reduce infection probability in this outbreak.
8. Explain the eradication of smallpox and the eradication of polio in all but two countries. How could this be achieved without vaccines?
Reply - The people of Africa don't eat bush meat any more. They know what doctors and you don't know! lol
Bush meat is transported to cities - (Very weak argument.)
2.Quote - The reason that the doctors don't wear full protective gear when they screen potential victims is that Ebola spreads through direct contact with infected fluids. Also, if a patient is not experiencing obvious symptoms, they will not spread the disease.
Reply - So, if a patient coughs while being interviewed, the doctor gets infected. Those doctors must be brain dead and stupid! lol Or............................... just maybe, they know that it is really a pesticide problem, so they have nothing to fear. So, it looks like 9 doctors had bat soup for dinner! Shame! lol
3. Quote - Finally, you are disrespecting the memories of the more than 200 doctors and nurses who have died treating Ebola.  They are DEFINITELY not out there to make the "big bucks."
Reply - I could only find 9 doctors died of Ebola (Forbes Magazine). You are getting desperate and starting to manufacture big numbers. Note - It is you who is disrespecting human life by supporting corrupt medical practices and pharmacy companies.
Note - More people die per year from bee stings, than that die from Ebola. Can you get your priorities right?
4.Quote - Invading is a figure of speech.
Reply - Freudian slips often reveal a person's true nature. The medical system is an aggressive war like organisation which sees germs as the enemy. They need to kill the germs which are invading the human body and the immune system is the only defence. Sounds like a military campaign to me! lol
5. Quote - exactly the same genome as that of a single female devil.
Reply - The human species can be genetically traced back to just one female also. What does that prove ? Answer - Nothing! lol
6. Quote - also ignored the fact that ants can get sick (fungus)
Reply - A fungus is not a virus. You are casting your fishing line into forbidden waters. lol
Out of billions of species you found one small exception to the rule. Note - One exception to the rule doesn't constitute a rebuttal. The nature of this case hasn't been explored fully as yet. I haven't seen it on any of David Attenborough's documentaries, so it might be a Hollywood stunt. I have heard that Hollywood is interested in this case to make a zombie movie based on this ant. Thus, it might just be a hoax.
7. Quote - "Big Pharma" is holding back information that iodine can cure all diseases
Reply - The amount of daily iodine is much more than what big pharma says it is. The Japanese people eat loads of iodine in the form of seaweed and they rarely get cancer. (proof)
8. Quote- Halogen anesthetics have been shown to be safe. They can have some side effects such as liver damage, but cases of this are very rare.
Reply - Dying while under anaesthesia my be very rare, but if that doesn't get you, then the halogens they pump into you have a lasting effect and getting a post operation infection and dying is a 1/38 proposition. lol
Facts below don't lie, only doctors lie! lol
I would like to apologize if I have offednded Pro with any of my language. I got very heated due to some statements from Pro I felt were offensive.
1. I was not aware of the fact that bushmeat was eaten in cities. That still does not explain the fact that Ebola has been shown to be contagious.
You say that the people of Africa no longer eat bushmeat. If so, how was a newborn baby infected with Ebola?  Shouldn't it have died in the womb after its mother ate the supposedly poisoned food?
Also, what is causing the continuing infections of Ebola even though the consumption of bushmeat has been banned? Cases in Guinea continued well into 2015, while your source says that bushmeat was banned in March-April of 2014. 
2. Again, I state that Ebola is NOT airborne. Someone infected would have to sneeze directly onto a medic from very short range for infection to occur, and there are some safety protocols in place to ensure this does not happen.  And I again say that a person must be showing obvious symptoms (none of which include coughing/sneezing) for someone to be infected. 
I also find it very unilkely that health workers would take the risk of eating possibly contaminated food.
"Shame! lol" Wow. Just wow. Laughing at the death of multiple people. That's all I will say.
3. Again, you failed to really read my source. I'll cite it again, and you will see that there is a large infographic in the center of the article.  This infographic explicityly states that over 200 health care workers have died. It is true that only 9 health care workers from Doctors Without Borders have died, but their doctors are only a portion of all of those fighting Ebola.
4. It could be said you are correct in saying that the campaign against disease is somewhat militaristic. However, diseases are well deserving of their own war. Infectious diseases are reponsible for 23% of worldwide deaths each year.  That's more than 12.6 million people each year (using the death rate from ). I think it's worth it to declare war on disease if it means saving the lives 12 million people every year.
5. The genome in the cancer cells is identical to the genome of a Tasmanian devil that lived 20 years ago.  It is important to note that the genome in the cancer is IDENTICAL to the devil's genome; it doesn't just trace back to the devil. This indicatures it MUST be from exactly the same organism.
Also, the assumption that the human genome can be traced back to one female is erroneous as there was no one single "mother" of the human race according to evolution. But let's leave the whole evolution vs creationism aside for another debate.
6. You are indeed correct that a fungus is not a virus. However, I was using the zombie-ant fungus (as it has been nicknamed) to prove my point that diseases do exist in nature. If a fungus can infect an ant, it is logical that viruses could also infect an ant.
Out of billions of species I chose ants not because they were an exception to a rule, but because they are exactly the same exapmle you used in your argument: "Have you ever seen a sick ant? Answer - Never!"
"Hollywood is interested in this case ... Thus, it might just be a hoax." Actually there is already a videogame based on this fungus infecting humans called The Last of Us. However, saying that anything that Holywood is interested in must be a host is an invalid conclusion.
As you seem unsatisified by the example of ants, here are a few other examples of disease in nature:
7. You cannot jump to the conclusion that the iodine in seaweed is what gives seaweed its apparent anit-cancer properties. Your first source (http://www.realnatural.org...) states that several "sulphrous polysaccharides" contribute to cancer cell death.
The second source (http://simonarich.com...) cites Dr. David Brownstein as a majro proponent of iodine as a cancer preventative agent. From several searches online I found that public opinion is that he is probably a "quack" trying to cash in on the recent craze of magical supplements which can cure disease. [8-9] He says his products can cure Alzheimers, cancer, arthritis, and even digestive problems. He also has a strong marketing presence to sell his products. [10-11] Take this information as you will, but I am getting a significant negative sentiment toward this doctor.
Both websites have large banners at their sides selling various books and supplements. I am quite wary of this type of website as they can misrepersent facts to suit their needs. I am not saying that supplements and other forms of homeopathy are useless, but I have heard of saddening situations where people with cancer or other chronic/terminal diseases turning to theses supplements or alternative treatments. Sometimes, they are healed, but many times they just die with a little less money in their pocket.
Finally, please cite a scientifically rigorous study published in a major medical journey showing that the recommended iodine intake set by the FDA is not sufficient and that it has led to widespread iodine deficiency in the American population.
8. This is exactly what I was talking about in section 7. You have misinterpreted a fact and presented it in a way that is beneficial to your argument.
There is a 1/38 chance you will die of a infection obtained in a hopsital over the course of your whole life. Not all hospital infections are post-surgery, however. Infections that are caused by infected catheters and transmission from another patient are also very common. Patient-to-patient transmission happens often due to many patients having compromised immune systems due to previous diseases.  Surgical site infections only occur after 1 to 3 percent of surgeries
9. You failed to adress my comments on the effectiveness of vaccines in the Disney measles outbreak, the Tasmanian devil cancer, or the eradication of smallpox and polio.
This science report shows that bats in West Africa are contaminated with DDT and Endosulfan.
Endposulfan - Symptoms of acute poisoning include hyperactivity, tremors, convulsions, lack of coordination, staggering, difficulty breathing, nausea and vomiting, diarrhea, and in severe cases, unconsciousness. Doses as low as 35 mg/kg have been documented to cause death in humans, and many cases of sublethal poisoning have resulted in permanent brain damage. Farm workers with chronic endosulfan exposure are at risk of rashes and skin irritation.
DDT - This pesticide is clearly associated with so called 'polio outbreaks' in the 1940's and 1950's
1. Quote - You say that the people of Africa no longer eat bushmeat. If so, how was a newborn baby infected with Ebola?  Shouldn't it have died in the womb after its mother ate the supposedly poisoned food?
Reply - Firstly, the mother died of Ebola virus.(you didn't state this fact) (note voters - deception used again) Blood is transferred via the fallopian tube to the baby. The baby died also, now you find this unusual? I don't understand your logic here? Surely your understanding of blood transfer( pesticide toxins) from mother to baby couldn't be that ignorant. Could it?
2. Quote - Again, I state that Ebola is NOT airborne. Someone infected would have to sneeze directly onto a medic from very short range for infection to occur,
Reply - Those doctors must be truly ignorant people. They don't understand basic physics of airborne particles, no wonder so many of them have died. Studies have shown that a single cough can propel particles at a speed of 200 kilometres per hour into the air and spread 200 times further than previously thought. (so called medical geniuses make me laugh!)
3. Quote - the assumption that the human genome can be traced back to one female is erroneous as there was no one single "mother" of the human race according to evolution.
Reply - Again, very poor research - http://www.livescience.com...
4. Quote - You are indeed correct that a fungus is not a virus. However, I was using the zombie-ant fungus (as it has been nicknamed) to prove my point that diseases do exist in nature. If a fungus can infect an ant, it is logical that viruses could also infect an ant.
Reply - All animals and vegetation that die will have fungus growth occurring after death. This is just a normal process and I don't find it unusual or unique. If a banana gets a fungus, does it necessarily mean that the fungus is controlling the banana? Answer - No, it just means that some stupid university graduate is looking for a way to get famous by discovering something that is obvious to everybody else but not to him or her because he or she is basically stupid.
5. Quote - You cannot jump to the conclusion that the iodine in seaweed is what gives seaweed its apparent anit-cancer properties. Your first source (http://www.realnatural.org......) states that several "sulphrous polysaccharides" contribute to cancer cell death.
Reply - Iodide is accumulated during phagocytosis, the process of engulfing and ingesting bacteria and
other foreign bodies. The iodide is attached to the bacteria and to proteins, creating iodoproteins
including monoiodotyrosine (T1). Sometimes, the thyroid hormones are utilized as the source of
Here - piles of research which clearly demonstrates that iodine is the key to good health and disease prevention.
6. Quote - You failed to adress my comments on the effectiveness of vaccines in the Disney measles outbreak, the Tasmanian devil cancer, or the eradication of smallpox and polio.
Reply - The Vaccination Liberation website has dozens of graphs which clearly shows that vaccination has no effect whatsoever on the eradication of disease. It is improvements in sanitation, diet, refrigeration, transport, sewerage management, clean water supply, stopping of poisonous pesticides, herbicides and fire retardants which prevents disease.
The world governments and pharmacy companies tell lies to cover-up their mistakes so that they don't get sued for murdering millions of people with toxic chemicals by using disease as a scape goat.
palmertio0 forfeited this round.
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