The Instigator
Akhenaten
Pro (for)
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The Contender
palmertio0
Con (against)
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Vaccination is a fraud (part 3)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/19/2015 Category: Health
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 456 times Debate No: 82830
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Akhenaten

Pro

There seems to be some unresolved issues. If you wish to carry on the discussion, it may be better to do it on a debate format, rather than to keep using the comments section.
palmertio0

Con

I accept. How many more debates will it take to convince you?
Debate Round No. 1
Akhenaten

Pro

http://www.whale.to...

http://www.blatner.com...

http://drrimatruthreports.com...

We can see from the above graphs that vaccination doesn't work. It is sanitation, electricity, refrigeration, clean water supply and good diet which prevents disease. Disease only declines when all these issues are addressed. The American Indians only became diseased when they were forced off their reservations and put into desert regions which had little natural resources. Thus, the Indians were forced to eat western food such as sugar and grain which is unsuitable for proper nutrition. The concept of disease being spread via fleas is ridiculous.

Note - Lius Pastuer was a con artist who married the rectors daughter so he could become a leading university administrator and steal other peoples ideas and call them his own.
palmertio0

Con

Long discourse on why the "vaccines don't save us" argument is wrong: https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...

First Graph:
Absolutely terrible scaling on this graph. It's making the peak of 350 deaths per thousand look as large as the peak of 100% ratio of vaccinations to births. The smallpox peaks should be much smaller. It also has a couple more problems:

1. It is showing smallpox mortality, not smallpox cases. Number of smallpox cases would be much more indicative as to the effectiveness of the vaccine.

2. This graph confuses cause and correlation. An increase in the number of smallpox deaths would likely scare people into taking the vaccination. It is not that the vaccination causes more deaths.

3. Why does a period with only minor outbreaks follow a time when almost 100% of people being born were vaccinated? This indicates that the vaccination levels rose high eneough to prevent large outbreaks from occuring. There is no other way to explain the change between high smallpox mortality rates to sudden low smallpox mortality rates. I don't think that sanitation could have changed so drastically in such a short time.

4. If the vaccination does indeed cause smallpox, why don't the high vaccination levels of 1850-1862 cause as large an outbreak as in 1872?

Second Graph:
This graph is also terribly done. It uses only about 5 points of data (making it very suspect to cherrypicking) and does not include vaccintation rates.

Third Graph:
Did you even read this graph? It's the number of deaths caused by the vaccine. It is true that the smallpox vaccine is quite dangerous when compared to other vaccines, and is only used in special high-risk situations. This graph actually shows how the vaccine was made safer and more effective over time.

Quote - "Indians only became diseased when they were forced off their reservations and put into desert regions which had little natural resources. Thus, the Indians were forced to eat western food such as sugar and grain which is unsuitable for proper nutrition."
There are quite a few things wrong with this:

1. Sugar is AMERICAN. Also, why is sugar unhealthy? It's literally made by boiling the liquid of sugarcane. In moderation, sugar is perfectly fine.
2. Detail the exact way that eating grain leads to a disease with symptoms matching those of smallpox.
3. Not all Native Americans relocated to desertic areas. Many moved to the other side of the Appalachians and other forested areas.

Quote - "The concept of disease being spread via fleas is ridiculous."

Here is a research article detailing exactly how fleas spread diseases: http://www.ijidonline.com...(10)00029-9/fulltext. It's not ridiculous.

Onto some of my arguments:

If vaccines don't work, why were only 10% of those infected in the recent Disney measles outbreak vaccinated? If the vaccines didn't work, most of the people infected should have been vaccinated.

Another good point made by the Hepatitis B and chickenpox vaccines: If better sanitation is the only reason that disease cases fall, and vaccines pkay no part in the reduction of disease incidence; why did cases of Hepatits B and chickenpox drop drastically after the introfuction of the vaccines in the early 1990s? Surely our sanitation has not changed much since then.

Also, why did whooping cough make a comeback in England after fewer people began to vaccinate around 1980? Surely their sanitation didn't get worse.

Sources for both above and more graphs: https://medium.com...;
Debate Round No. 2
Akhenaten

Pro

1. In regards to the reference - Science - Based Medicine.

My opponent asks the question - "Why were death rates declining before vaccination?"

His reasons -
(a) Medicine was improving - iron lung etc
(b) Improved nutrition - ( good answer, this agrees with my argument)
(c) Graphs.

Now, lets have a look at these graphs and yes,. again, he has used the short 50 year graph to demonstrate that I am wrong. Still missing is 150 years of scientific information and statistical data? Why?
Reason - My opponent wants to deceive us with bogus information by the use of omission and deception.

Note - It is claimed by medical historians that the vaccination process wiped out smallpox throughout the world. However, the truth is that compulsory vaccination was abandoned because more deaths were caused by the vaccinations than there were cases of smallpox. A slight of the hand trick was used to foster the claim that smallpox was eradicated by the vaccination practice. Everyone who had been vaccinated and who developed smallpox was diagnosed as having chicken pox!

http://vactruth.com...

Measles Graph Figure 8 - https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...

Notice how this graph has a 15 year gap from 1955 to 1970. During this period, the medical authorities had placed a ban of the recording of any information about the incidence of measles. This period was when live measles vaccine was being trialled, so the authorities wanted to hide the data in case a huge epidemic of measles occurred when the live vaccine was administered. ( More deception.)
Why would they do that?
Answer - To cover-up the ineffectiveness of vaccination and disguise any spikes that might occur during the live vaccine administration.

Measles reoccurred in the UK article -
Note - These people who had measles in 2007 were from Pakistan which is a third world country. Obviously, this information is irrelevant because Pakistan has very poor health standards and can't be used as evidence of measles re-occurrence.
palmertio0

Con

palmertio0 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Akhenaten

Pro

Easy win!
palmertio0

Con

palmertio0 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Akhenaten

Pro

Easy win!
palmertio0

Con

palmertio0 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
117 court cases where the doctors have been prosecuted.

http://healthimpactnews.com...
Posted by Sam7411 1 year ago
Sam7411
1. The spraying of DDT was not random
2. Studies without real certification or scientific backing that are 1 out of 100 don't constitute as evidence

To everyone who has this ideology, I think CollegeHumor would do a good job of explaining this situation to you:
https://www.youtube.com...
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
https://cdn-images-1.medium.com...*19QqUEdSa8dZQxg0h15nGg.png

Note - The sudden appearance of polio around 1940. The same time that the government implemented the random spraying of DDT in school yards, streets and water ways.
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
In regards to how grain can cause measles.
Posted by palmertio0 1 year ago
palmertio0
When when you learn that not all doctors are simply in it for the money as you seem to think?
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
When will you learn that the world that you have been born into is not the one you thought it was?
No votes have been placed for this debate.