The Instigator
Akhenaten
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
AWSM0055
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Vaccination is a fraud

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
AWSM0055
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/30/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,281 times Debate No: 81797
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (64)
Votes (2)

 

Akhenaten

Pro

I say vaccination is a fraud. That vaccination has not saved the life of one individual, nor has it prevented one case of disease. The whole matter is just a money making scam that was started 200 years ago by Edward Jenner who was an uneducated moron who knew nothing about how to stay healthy.
AWSM0055

Con

You say that not once has vaccination saved lives, and yet provide no sources for such claims.

Whereas I can provide many, and even say that vaccination has wiped out a whole diseases such as small pox. In fact, 732,000 lives of children have been saved due to the discovery.

http://www.who.int...

http://www.livescience.com...

The link above is from the World Health Organisation. I'm sure they know more about it than you do.

Finally, you say it's a money scam. Funny how most immunisations are actually free, but I guess that depends on where you live.

Think before you make ridiculous and wilfully ignorant claims.
Debate Round No. 1
Akhenaten

Pro

The two army analogy.
If you have two armies; one army has knowledge of the enemy and the other army has no knowledge of the enemy.
Army one has knowledge of the enemy, but has no transport, no food and no weapons.
Army two has no knowledge of the enemy, but has plenty of transport, food and weapons.
If army one was to fight army two, which army would win the battle and why?

Germs are the result of a disease; they are not the cause of it. (Antoine Bechamp)

"Germs floating in the air" is just an unproven myth of the medical world. If somebody gets sick it is because they are eating a bad diet which lacks vitamins and or they have been poisoned by toxic chemicals, dirty water and rotten or decayed food.
The concept of a virus killing somebody is illogical and absurd. If viruses killed people, the virus would kill itself in the process and would become extinct in a very short time period. Thus, germ theory is an incorrect theory which has been adopted by unscrupulous individuals as a means of making money and profit from human misery. The medical system is a drug based system which ignores the existing biological countermeasures that already exist. The human gut has bacteria which aid in digestion. If somebody eats too much sugar and carbohydrates this will cause a bacteria imbalance and the person will get a flu virus. The medical system just makes up names of diseases which are based on symptoms only. They never, ever look at a disease under the microscope as a means of identifying a disease.
The modern diet is the cause of most disease. Grain, sugar and dairy products are unnatural foods for humans which cause inflammation of the internal organs. This can result in whooping cough, flu, heart attack, stroke, Alzheimer"s disease, leaky gut syndrome, diabetes and many other problems.

My opponent has provided false and misleading information. By saying that "vaccines are free" my opponent is clearly trying to deceive the voters. Vaccines are never free, the government subsidises the pharmacy companies with billions of dollars of tax payer's money.

http://articles.mercola.com...-
quicker.aspx

http://vaccine-injury.info...

The sad history of small pox vaccination - http://www.vaclib.org...
AWSM0055

Con

The whole army analogy is pointless. I don't know how that can defend your claim.

Secondly, germs are both the cause and result of a disease, but to say that germs don't cause disease at all is a load of hogwash.

For instance, getting shot or stabbed in the intestine is a problem because of infection from the bacteria infested gut. The bacteria is good for our digestion, but can be harmful and cause disease if it got into our bloodstream.

http://www.healthline.com...

Getting stabbed would have therefore nothing to do with diet but with germ itself.

And your argument that a germ would kill itself due to causing disease is ridiculous. That's like saying a poisonous snake would die due to being poisonous, or a murderer would kill himself due to being a murderer. It's the germ itself that harms the body, not some invisible fairy dust.

Furthermore, a virus isn't a living thing, so your argument falls flat right there. (I'm trying really hard not to curse and insult you to kingdom come as I'm typing this.)

It's also funny how you have changed this debate from "vaccines don't help people" to "the whole medical industry is a giant fraud" debate, which I'm not going to get into because it has no relevance to the topic.

Also, that's like saying "America is fake" and expecting me to find sources proving America isn't fake. It's been logically assumed America is real for hundreds of years and saying it isn't is so illogical, nobody has thought to make web pages dedicated to proving America is real, and any I could provide would be labelled as a conspiracy.

Your doing basically the same thing with the medical industry. How am I supposed to prove it isn't if your going to keep denying evidence? If I showed you a germ, you would simply say "no, faked imagery" or some rubbish. I have literally nothing to work with here. Nonetheless, here are images of germs:

http://www.livescience.com...

And how they kill people:

http://www.qualityhealth.com...

Sure, governments fund vaccination because it works, which is clearly shown with virus's such as smallpox, which has been completely eradicated. I guess I was slightly misleading when I said vaccinations are "free", but nonetheless, it has nothing to do with whether they work or not. Cars cost money and clearly work. So does petrol, and computers.

Even though this may be a slight ad hominem, I need to say this:

Simply because you can't see something, that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist, and saying otherwise is ignorant. I would suggest that, If you are so incredibly suspicious of the medical industry the only way to prove it to yourself is to buy a microscope, and get someone ill to sneeze on it, and look through the binocular bit, and see the germs crawling about. A good one is only about $170 - $250. Or look at a toilet seat or something...anything really.

And now for your links:

The first one was a dud

The second one just crashed my computer every time I open it

Third one is simply suspicious

Now onto my arguments:

Vaccines are basically the utilisation of an already natural occurrence in our body. When the body detects a disease, it will remember that disease so it kills it easier in the future. Native Indians for instance got wiped out big time due to not being immune to the several diseases Europeans brought with them. The settlers were immune to the disease, so they weren't affected by it, whereas the Native Indians were nearly wiped clean from America because their body didn't know how to deal with it.

So immunisation is a real thing, and has been around for millions of years. Vaccines basically do the same thing, but instead of infecting a patient with the disease, it gives the patient harmless protein antigens or weak or fake pathogens. This evokes an immune systems response and causes the body to "remember" the antigen/pathogen related to that particular disease.

The only time this really fails is with some viruses that "change" how they look. Some viruses maybe be exactly the same, yet have a different "appearance" to the body, which could therefore hinder the body's reaction.

Nevertheless, saying that vaccines are a fraud is like saying your body's immune system is bollocks.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Here's a nice little animated depiction of how vaccines work for those utterly uneducated on the subject:

http://www.historyofvaccines.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Akhenaten

Pro

1. Quote -'The whole army analogy is pointless. I don't know how that can defend your claim'.

Reply - The two army analogy is not pointless, its logic. The two army analogy reveals how stupid and illogical germ theory and vaccinations are. It shows that having knowledge of the enemy (which is what vaccination is) is totally pointless because if the human body doesn't have a sufficient vitamin supply, then, the so called 'knowledge' is unless because the body wont be able to use this knowledge anyway.

2. Quote - 'For instance, getting shot or stabbed in the intestine is a problem because of infection from the bacteria infested gut. The bacteria is good for our digestion, but can be harmful and cause disease if it got into our bloodstream.'

Reply - That's part of the healing process. The gut allows bacteria into the blood stream to fix a problem, not to cause a problem. If you get shot in the gut, then, this is a possibly fatal situation. In nature, without assistance, you would probably die. Medical intervention may save you by stitching up the breakages. Whether an infection occurs or not depends on what type of bacteria are in your gut. If you are an unhealthy person who has bad bacteria, then, you may die in such a situation.
Note - Leaky gut syndrome is caused by eating too much grain foods.

3. Quote - 'And your argument that a germ would kill itself due to causing disease is ridiculous. That's like saying a poisonous snake would die due to being poisonous, or a murderer would kill himself due to being a murderer. It's the germ itself that harms the body, not some invisible fairy dust'.

Reply - A snake injects venom into its victim. It doesn't inject venom into itself, otherwise the snake might die as well. Your argument is illogical. The germs come from the gut, as you yourself have stated previously. They don't come from mysterious outside sources. The bacteria are only reacting to a vitamin deficiency or toxic chemical.

4. Quote - 'Furthermore, a virus isn't a living thing, so your argument falls flat right there. (I'm trying really hard not to curse and insult you to kingdom come as I'm typing this.)'

Reply - Wait a minute - I need to punch a few holes through the wall. Bang! bang! bang! There, that's better! Now I can proceed.

That's right! A virus isn't a living thing; so how the hell do these dead things know when to attack us poor humans? They have no brains, ears or eyes; so how do they know that we are sick?

Again, the illogical assumptions of germ theory reveal themselves.

5. Quote -' It's also funny how you have changed this debate from "vaccines don't help people" to "the whole medical industry is a giant fraud" debate, which I'm not going to get into because it has no relevance to the topic'.

Reply - It's the medical system that enforces vaccination. So how are they - NOT RELATED?

6. 'Quote - Your doing basically the same thing with the medical industry. How am I supposed to prove it isn't if your going to keep denying evidence? If I showed you a germ, you would simply say "no, faked imagery" or some rubbish. I have literally nothing to work with here. Nonetheless, here are images of germs:

http://www.livescience.com......

Reply - Giardia is obviously a small parasite. It is not a bacterium or a virus. It is similar to the malaria parasite. Parasites can cause minor irritation to healthy people and might cause trouble if ingested in large doses by faecal material ingestion. If you eat crap - you get sick, big deal! I would be surprised if you didn't.

7. Quote - Simply because you can't see something, that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist, and saying otherwise is ignorant. I would suggest that, If you are so incredibly suspicious of the medical industry the only way to prove it to yourself is to buy a microscope, and get someone ill to sneeze on it, and look through the binocular bit, and see the germs crawling about. A good one is only about $170 - $250. Or look at a toilet seat or something...anything really.

Reply - I used to work in an electron microscope unit as a photographer, so I don't need your $170 dollar microscope thanks.

8. Quote - The first one was a dud
The second one just crashed my computer every time I open it
Third one is simply suspicious

Reply - (a) http://vactruth.com...

(b) Get a better computer.

(c) The third one it too embarrassing and graphic - lol http://www.vaclib.org...

9. Quote - Nevertheless, saying that vaccines are a fraud is like saying your body's immune system is bollocks.

Reply - The body's immune system is iodine based. The medical system deny's that iodine is the key to good health and uses radiation, chemicals and surgery to make money.
AWSM0055

Con

I know I probably shouldn't do this, but I honestly don't care. I give up. Everything I say at this point is refuted with lots of stupid and simple ignorant and outdated claims.

I make an argument, I back it up with evidence, and then you erase it with conspiracy or stupid.

I don't care if I lose this debate. I'm just mind boggled how anyone could live under such a hideous rock.

You completely ignore all medical and scientific data with woo. I don't know...I don't know what to say or where to start...

Shall I redo all of medical research ever collected for the last 200 years again just to prove it isn't fraud?

And iodine based body? WTF? The body needs iodine but IODINE BASED?
Debate Round No. 3
Akhenaten

Pro

Yes, iodine can replace most medicines and costs next to nothing. Its every doctors worse nightmare come true. If the public ever finds out, they may not need so many doctors any more. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

Don't tell anybody!

Iodine's true role as clearly making up more than 1/2 of the body's Immune System has yet to be understood by humanity and even the most learned Alternative Health Practitioners who still are into thinking that it is only the G.I. tract and the Lymph System that do the predominant share of the work as the body's Immune System.

While herbs and other remedies have their place as supplements, they have been depended on to have to do too much of the work as a remedy-restorative in the absence of the Iodine having been restored to its vital Immune System Component role of purifying the complete bloodstream of the body (something which it does in the Thyroid every 17 minutes) and then allowed to do its appointed job of keeping the body free of pathogens, metals and toxins, but first kicking out the build up of toxins, metals and parasites that have been unnaturally allowed to build up in the absence of having the sufficient level of Iodine over years and years.

It appears that we are already built with the best possible blood purification system imaginable-- but the purifying active ingredient has been removed from us.

A French chemist in the early 1800's discovered a violet vapor escaping from seaweed when he poured a little too much sulfuric acid on it.

This was found to be a substance with such a naturally powerful antiseptic quality that it is even now the antiseptic of choice before any number of surgeries performed. It is incredibly cheap, costing only pennies, and has the antiseptic purifying capabilities of the most expensive ultraviolet/ozone purification systems used in the very best hot tubs, aquariums and pools. No chemicals are required.

Turns out it is a component of a balanced body and is supposed actually make up the greater part of our immune system -- but that has been displaced out of the receptor sites by the addition of Fluorines/Fluorides (Water), Chlorines(Water), Bromines(put in Flour) either without your knowledge and/or consent.

All blood in the body is designed to pass through a full 1.5 grams of this powerful natural 'antiseptic' named after the greek word for 'Violet' called 'IODINE' every 17 minutes...

Yes -- all blood in the body is designed to pass through a full 1.5 grams of this powerful natural 'antiseptic' in the thyroid gland and the iodine in the muscles and breasts. Hospitals simply paint the skin prior to surgery with iodine and in 90 seconds the area free of more than 90% of pathogens.

We are designed to be continually and naturally purified by a violet concentrate substance similar to the ultraviolet/ozone purification systems in the very best hot tubs, aquariums and pools.

All cancers, tumors, are preceded by the cyst stage, and no cyst can develop in an iodine purified bio-system with enough iodine present.

All fibroids, all cysts, all cancers in the breasts, the prostate, or anywhere else are found to be fully prevented and even reversed with the restoration of the normal levels of Iodine both in the Thyroid, and in the body tissues as a normal background saturation level.
AWSM0055

Con

Gobbledygook...
Debate Round No. 4
64 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by palmertio0 1 year ago
palmertio0
Wow. People are stupid aren't they? Thanks for the addition to the running list of idiocity.
Posted by AWSM0055 1 year ago
AWSM0055
@palmertio0

You don't even know some of the sh*t I've seen:

https://m.youtube.com...
Posted by palmertio0 1 year ago
palmertio0
I don't know how flat earthers still exist.
Posted by AWSM0055 1 year ago
AWSM0055
OMG...that last sentence of your argument!

"We are made from viruses and bacteria. When you get sick, the viruses and bacteria come out of the cells to fix the environment which has become unsuitable for the cell"

I can't breath....HAHAHAHA...*wheeeze*...Hahaha...omg...omg...I'm laughing so hard....omg...I'm gonna die...*wheeeeeeze*...quick get me some iodine!...

*Chomp chomp*

...

*sound of body hitting the floor*

RIP...fare well...

The amount of idiocy you have shown in one sentence dwarfs even the flat earth society...
Posted by AWSM0055 1 year ago
AWSM0055
Firstly, sorry for being away. My life has been slightly hectic.

But for retarded Egyptian God quack guys arguments.

You say the body's immune system needs a 'weapon' like iodine to kill germs...which is wrong.

Cells don't act like humans, as if they need a separate chemical or tool to use as a weapon. The immune system is like a lion, where the weapon (I.e. Teeth) is built into the animal. Immune system cells (I.e. T cells) don't need a weapon because they ARE the weapon.

Your reasoning suggests that I should give a bear or lion an RPG because it's super effective at killing. While it IS effective at killing, a bear or lion or such wouldn't know what to do with it because they're not designed to use separate entities as weapons.

But because your so convinced that germs don't make people sick, next time your taking a sh*t, make sure to eat some of it, and then we'll see how sure you are about that claim. Or lick an ATM or something. Or get someone with a cold to sneeze on you. Even better, travel to Africa among the Ebola-infested population and see how long it takes till you get sick.

"What's his stupidity level?"

"ITS OVER 9000!!!"
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
I have never said that disease and germs don't exist. My statement is that - 'Germs are the result of disease, not the cause of disease'. (Antoine Bechamp)

Germs, viruses and bacteria are just the building blocks of life. They are not our enemies. We are made from viruses and bacteria. When you get sick, the viruses and bacteria come out of the cells to fix the environment which has become unsuitable for the cell. This is called pleomorphic cell theory.

Iodine is very cheap and easy to get. Big pharma doesn't want people to know about iodine as being a cure-all element and spreads propaganda to divert peoples attention away from iodine. There is big money in patenting expensive chemical concoctions which are ineffective and act as masking agents.
Posted by palmertio0 1 year ago
palmertio0
GODDAMIT. I will quote myself word for word: "We're not denying that iodine isn't important." OF COURSE YOU CAN'T BE HEALTHY WITHOUT IODINE! But it, as we've been trying to explain to you for the past week is that IODINE DOESN'T CURE ALL DISEASES!

As a side note, your analogy is extremely weak. You can make a videogame with FORTRAN if you want to. You could simulate a complex mathematical system with ja<x>vascript. Anyways, you still prove my point. Getting iodine from food may be more natural and have slightly better absorption rates (iodized salt can be added to food to achieve this), but the iodine you take in from vitamin supplements WILL STILL BE ABSORBED.

Again I say: why would "Big Pharma" allow iodine supplements and iodized salt to be sold if they want to keep us sick?

Also, please explain every single image in this library and what they are of if they are no bacteria/virus.
http://phil.cdc.gov... (Click on EM Imagery under the Featured Phil Collections tab)
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
If you press the print function on your computer you can get a copy for about $10.00 worth of paper and ink.
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
If you press the print function on your computer you can get a copy for about $10.00 worth of paper and ink.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by famousdebater 1 year ago
famousdebater
AkhenatenAWSM0055Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con essentially forfeited the final round.
Vote Placed by Greg4586 1 year ago
Greg4586
AkhenatenAWSM0055Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to pro for FF. Now onto arguments, first to you pro. You claim germ theory is false, for germs do not cause disease/illness for it is your diet/lifestyle that makes the difference. Ok, while your diet and lifestyle has huge influence over your health that doesn't prove germ theory false. Let me give an example: If you inject a sample of HIV into your bloodstream, you're going to get HIV regardless of how good your diet and lifestyle is. While you may be better off with a better diet that doesn't change anything. Con, however did prove with evidence that vaccines do in fact work and have saved lives. Pro's sources were 1. Pretty shady or didn't work. 2. Didn't really prove that vaccinations do not cause disease, but rather sanitation/ diet is important to stopping disease. That contradicts his previous germ theory argument, and doesn't really support his argument.