The Instigator
Midnight1131
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
Dilara
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Vaccines Cause Autism

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Midnight1131
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/6/2015 Category: Health
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 796 times Debate No: 73022
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (1)

 

Midnight1131

Con

I will be debating on the side that vaccines do not cause autism.


The burden of proof is on my opponent to prove that vaccines DO cause autism.


First round is acceptance only.
Dilara

Pro

I accept. I will be debating the side that vaccines do cause autism (as well as other problems).
Thanks for debating with me!.
Debate Round No. 1
Midnight1131

Con

I thank my opponent for this debate. I forgot to mention earlier, but the last round is only for rebuttals, no new arguments will be introduced then.


I'd like to define vaccine. [All definitions are from oxford dictionaries]

Vaccine
A substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases

Throughout history, vaccines have been the best method against preventing disease. There are many diseases that were rampant in the past, but they have been erradicated or are close to erradication thanks to vaccination. These diseases include -
  • Polio
  • Smallpox
  • Measles
  • Tetanus

These diseases, had they still been common, would've been killing hundreds of thousands of people today.

Many people believe that vaccines cause autism. This belief was strengthened after a scientific paper released in 1998 by former medical researcher, Andrew Wakefield. This paper was published in the medical journal The Lancet. It was later revealed that Wakefield had manipulated evidence, and had many conflicts of interest. In 2004, this paper was partially retracted, and was fully retracted in 2010. The Lancet's editor-in-chief called it "utterly false." Wakefield was found guilty of professional misconduct, and he is no longer allowed to practice medicine. The scientific community agrees that no evidence links autism and vaccination.

Research has gone into what causes autism, and a few interesting things have been found. Autism has a genetic component, but there is more. In siblings that both have autism, the genetic risk factors aren't the same. There hasn't even been any real evidence to fully explain why autism occurs, so it's senseless to suddenly blame it on vaccines.

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://www.bmj.com...

http://www.healthline.com...

http://www.unicef.org...

http://www.dailyrx.com...

http://www.nature.com...

http://www.healthline.com...

Dilara

Pro

Thanks for debating with me!
1. It's important to remember that vaccine manufacturers fund the research on vaccines. Therefor vaccine researchers are less likely to be honest about their findings. There is a conflict of interest. Vaccine manufactures also spend 100million dollars a year on advertisements. That's more than any other industry including the oil industry.
2. It's also important to note that there is little science on the molecular cellular level about vaccines.
3. The vaccines we have did not go through a 4 year clinical trial but a 16 month trial. This was very irresponsible and dangerous.
3. Mercury and aluminum both cause brain damage. Eating aluminum is less likely to cause brain damage because it is excreted quickly. But aluminum is vaccines is made to stick around. Aluminum in vaccines causes brain damage. Vaccines also contain mercury.
4. Chris shaw a pediatrician did an experiment with mice, giving them aluminum and mercury. The test found that after receiving the mercury the mice became more irritable and suffered cognitive and physical damage. No one had debunked dr Shaws study. If he is wrong than the pro vaccine doctors should be able to debunk it but they.a won't because can't.
5. Vaccines affect everyone differently. However the vaccine industry acts as of it is a one size fits all matter, as if all people will react to vaccines the same way. Children who get autism from vaccines are more allergic than children who don't get autism from it.
4. It is common knowledge that mercury and aluminum cause brain damage and yes autism. Both mercury and aluminum are found inside of vaccines. It was in July of 1999 that the American association of pediatrics and vaccine manufacturers made a statement saying that Mercury should be lessened of eliminated from vaccines. The amount of mercury put in vaccines was reduced but not eliminated.
5. In the film "a greater good" a little boy named Jordan king is featured. Jordan was a happy healthy baby. Than he was vaccinated. His family noticed that he became more irritable, began to walk on his toes and that he would jump up and down and flap his hands when excited but in a strange way. He also became unable to speak. John Green Jordan's doctor tested him for mercury and found that Jordan had very high levels of mercury. His parents tested the pant in their house, the saw dust in the basement but found no mercury. It is undeniable that the mercury had come from the vaccines he was given. Jordan along with 5,600 other people in the omnibius autism proceedings that examined the link between vaccine snake autism in 2001
6.!Many vaccine Injuries have resulted in law suits. One such case includes graham vs Wyeth lab and resulted in 15 million dollars being payed to the Grahams to make up for a severe vaccine injury. Than there's Johnson vs american cynamind ended up resulting in the Johnson's winning 18 million dollars.
7. There are so many vaccine injuries that a program called the vaccine compensation program fund was set up. Every time you receive a vaccine you pay a 75 cent tax that will go to a family who has been affected by a vaccine injury.
8 Victoria christener was also featured in the greater good. She died at 6 moths old due to vaccines. Immediately after the vaccinations she would get fevers ect. Than one day she stopped breathing and passed away.
9. In Wichita Kansas a girl named gabby swank was injured from 3 gardisil shots. She now has had two stokes and has partial vision, partial paralysis in the right side of her face and has many seizures.
10. In 2014 William WxThomas a former lead researcher in vaccine studies done by the cdc blew the whistle and admitted that he was complicate in the cdcs cover up of their own findings that autism and vaccine were linked. He spoke to Brian Hooker sa man whose child was injured from vaccines, and admitted that the cdcs vaccine study published in 2004 had been falsified and that evidence showing a link between autism and vaccines was taken out. Colleen Boyle who helped falsify the study testified under oath that vaccines didn't cause autism. With the help of congressman Bill Paisley they obtained the data showing that there is a 340% risk of getting autism for boys who had the mmr shot on time compared to those who had it later. The full study was out one the translational nuerodegeneration site and is called "mmr vaccine timing and autism in young African American boys reanalysis of cdc study". It also found that young black it's were twice as likely to get autism from vaccines than young white boys. A youtube video called "CDC whistle blower revealed" on the autism media channel has the interview with Mr. Thomas. It can be found in the site "cdc responds: admits omitting vaccine rates of autism".
Thanks!
Debate Round No. 2
Midnight1131

Con

I will start off with rebuttals. And I'd like to point out that my opponent didn't refute any of my arguments in the previous round.

Rebuttals
1. It's important to remember that vaccine manufacturers fund the research on vaccines. Therefor vaccine researchers are less likely to be honest about their findings. There is a conflict of interest. Vaccine manufactures also spend 100million dollars a year on advertisements. That's more than any other industry including the oil industry.

My opponent states that because vaccine manafacturers fund the research on vaccines, they're less likely to be honest about their findings. This isn't solid evidence that they lied about anything, and until there is, this isn't a valid point. My opponent also states that vaccine manufacturers spend 100 million dollars a year on advertisments. My opponent provided no sources to prove this, so this point is also invalid until there is a source to prove it.

2. It's also important to note that there is little science on the molecular cellular level about vaccines.

I'm not entirely sure what my opponent is trying to say here. Because the molecular biology is the mainly deals with the interactions of various systems inside a cell. Also, the "molecular cellular level" isn't an actual thing. Living organisms are classified into different levels, starting at the molecular level, THEN the cellular level, and then tissue, organ, and system level. I'd like my opponent to better clarify what they mean by "molecular cellular level" in the next round.

3. The vaccines we have did not go through a 4 year clinical trial but a 16 month trial. This was very irresponsible and dangerous.

My opponent does not provide any evidence for this. And they also don't give any reason as to HOW this was "very irresponsible and dangerous."

3. Mercury and aluminum both cause brain damage. Eating aluminum is less likely to cause brain damage because it is excreted quickly. But aluminum is vaccines is made to stick around. Aluminum in vaccines causes brain damage. Vaccines also contain mercury.

Again, my opponent provides NO SOURCES. Specifically, ALUMINUM SALTS are used in vaccines, they are non-toxic, and there is no evidence that these are related to any health effects[1]. As for mercury, specifically in vaccines, they use thimerosal, and that contains very low doses of mercury. These have not been linked to any bad side effects, but still, in 1999, vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal levels should be reduced, but only as a PRECAUTIONARY measure[2.]

4. Chris shaw a pediatrician did an experiment with mice, giving them aluminum and mercury. The test found that after receiving the mercury the mice became more irritable and suffered cognitive and physical damage. No one had debunked dr Shaws study. If he is wrong than the pro vaccine doctors should be able to debunk it but they.a won't because can't.

My opponent provides very little detail on this, and no sources. They do not give any link to Chris Shaw's study, and the best I found from an internet search was a biased source conducting an interview with him, that provided no information at all. Obviously, high doses of aluminum and mercury are dangerous, but vaccine manufacturers use aluminum in very low doses, following standards set by the World Health Organization, and mercury is being phased out only as a precautionary measure, as it was used safely for 100 years in vaccines.

5. Vaccines affect everyone differently. However the vaccine industry acts as of it is a one size fits all matter, as if all people will react to vaccines the same way. Children who get autism from vaccines are more allergic than children who don't get autism from it.

The amount of people who have had negative side effects is very small, and they are isolated cases, which have proven no link between vaccines and diseases. My opponent says children who get autism from vaccines are more allergic than children who don't, and she doesn't provide any sources, again. This point is invalid until there is a legitimate source provided.

4. It is common knowledge that mercury and aluminum cause brain damage and yes autism. Both mercury and aluminum are found inside of vaccines. It was in July of 1999 that the American association of pediatrics and vaccine manufacturers made a statement saying that Mercury should be lessened of eliminated from vaccines. The amount of mercury put in vaccines was reduced but not eliminated.

My opponent keeps saying the same thing over and over again. And, as I said before, the lessening of mercury from vaccines is just a precautionary measure, because the low doses haven't been linked to any diseases for many years.

5. In the film "a greater good" a little boy named Jordan king is featured. Jordan was a happy healthy baby. Than he was vaccinated. His family noticed that he became more irritable, began to walk on his toes and that he would jump up and down and flap his hands when excited but in a strange way. He also became unable to speak. John Green Jordan's doctor tested him for mercury and found that Jordan had very high levels of mercury. His parents tested the pant in their house, the saw dust in the basement but found no mercury. It is undeniable that the mercury had come from the vaccines he was given. Jordan along with 5,600 other people in the omnibius autism proceedings that examined the link between vaccine snake autism in 2001

My opponent provides no sources for this story again, it's just a film. My opponent doesn't even provide a link to John Green's research, or Jordan's case. Until there is a valid source for this, this is an invalid point.

6.!Many vaccine Injuries have resulted in law suits. One such case includes graham vs Wyeth lab and resulted in 15 million dollars being payed to the Grahams to make up for a severe vaccine injury. Than there's Johnson vs american cynamind ended up resulting in the Johnson's winning 18 million dollars. 7. There are so many vaccine injuries that a program called the vaccine compensation program fund was set up. Every time you receive a vaccine you pay a 75 cent tax that will go to a family who has been affected by a vaccine injury.

My opponent again, provides no sources, not for the case, or for the tax. But of course there's a vaccine compensation program, because there will always be isolated cases in which a person is harmed, but these cases aren't solid evidence of a link between vaccines and diseases.

For point 8, my opponent references that film, and again, provides no sources. This is another isolated case, and is no solid evidence for vaccines.

10. The full study was out one the translational nuerodegeneration site and is called "mmr vaccine timing and autism in young African American boys reanalysis of cdc study".

This study was retracted in 2014 [3.] It obviously had major flaws in the research, which is why it was retracted. So this point is invalid.

Conclusion
My opponent provided NO SOURCES to prove any of her points. Instead, she referenced isolated cases, and one study that was later retracted. Isolated cases cannot be counted as solid evidence. And the one study was retracted, which shows there was major problems in the research against vaccines.
  1. http://www.webmd.com...
  2. http://www.cdc.gov...
  3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
Dilara

Pro

Here army sources. www.greatergoodmovie.org/news-views/doctors-and scientists-with concerns-about vaccines/
www.greatergoodmovie.org/news-views/cdc-whistleblower-update/
www.greatergoodmovie.org/news-views/cdc-whistleblower-dr-william-thompson-public-statement/
healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc-whistleblower-cdc-covered-up-mmr-vaccine-link-to-autism-in-african-american-boys
health impact news.com/2014/cdc-whistleblower-comes-forward-admits-cover-up-on-vaccine-link-to-autism/
healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc-caught-hiding-data-showing-mercury-in-vaccines-linked-to-autism/
Debate Round No. 3
Midnight1131

Con

My opponent hasn't refuted any of my arguments for the past 2 rounds. And instead used this whole round for sources, so I will examine them for this round.

The greater good, even though my opponent says is a neutral film, is a biased anti-vaxxer production. It claims there is a link between autism and vaccines, and uses examples as well. Normally there has to be a strong correlation to establish a link between two things like this, but the Greater Good uses a grand total of 3 examples. Individual side effects happen, they happen with every medical treatment, but that doesn't mean there is a real and urgent link between that type of medical practice and whichever side effect happens.

Health impact news is also a biased source. It's motto is "news that impacts your health that other media sources won't tell you." On the front page I found an article suggesting that "essential oils" are more effective and less dangerous than approved drugs. They say this, and they say a "rapidly growing body of research" supports this idea. But they only provide a link to a news article in "the atlantic," which is just your general news website, and the author has very limited qualifications.

So to conclude, my opponent hasn't provided any new arguments, and hasn't refuted any of my arguments from the previous 2 rounds. My opponent's sources were biased, these sources would never focus on any of the benefits of vaccines, which, as I said in the first round, there are many.
Dilara

Pro

Vaccines can do good. But not for everyone. Everyone reacts differently to vaccines. I have showed the evidence linking vaccines to autism and I have given examples. What works for most people won't work for everyone. People should be able to choose wether or not to inject mercury and aluminum into their kids or their own bodies.
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by SlenderKitty 1 year ago
SlenderKitty
Don't forget, thimerosal uses ethylmercury, a harmless organic mercury that leaves the body quickly.
Posted by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
Woah ok. I didn't realize that was the last round.

I thank my opponent for this debate. And please don't start any new arguments in the last round.
Posted by BblackkBbirdd 1 year ago
BblackkBbirdd
Far more people would die of an outbreak of the disease (like Polio or something) than the number of people who get complications from the vaccine.
Posted by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
Still, it only showcases a few isolated incidences. Instead of providing a real link. But I'll save that for the debate.
Posted by Dilara 1 year ago
Dilara
It's a good movie though and it has voices who are pro and anti vaccine. It's neutral.
Posted by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
A film isn't a good source. But please don't turn this into a comment section debate.
Posted by Dilara 1 year ago
Dilara
They're all in the movie "the greater good"
Posted by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
Besides, when I looked up John Green the only results that came up was the author of "the fault in our stars"
Posted by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
You should include them in your arguments, people vote on who has better sources.
Posted by Dilara 1 year ago
Dilara
Look them up for the sources
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by tajshar2k 1 year ago
tajshar2k
Midnight1131DilaraTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Con was the only one who gave a constructed argument. Con's case rested on proving that the guy who said vaccines cause autism was wrong, and Vaccines do not cause autism. Con provided links to prove his claims were correct. Pro merely searched up links to where its says vaccines cause autism. However, she didn't give any arguments to why she thinks so. So in my opinion, Con won, because he gave arguments and refuted.