The Instigator
ishallannoyyo
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Agent_Orange
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Vampires are better than Werewolves

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/31/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,726 times Debate No: 24940
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
Votes (1)

 

ishallannoyyo

Pro

I saw that Agent_Orange had 4 debates and in all 4 his opponents forfeited their rounds. As a result, I would like to challenge Agent_Orange to this debate, a topic he has debated but unfortunately his opponent forfeited.

R1 is acceptance, R2 - 4 arguments, R5 conclusions.

I look forward to an entertaining and exciting debate.
Agent_Orange

Con

I accept the challenge.And look forward to this debate.
Debate Round No. 1
ishallannoyyo

Pro

I thank my opponent for accepting this debate challenge. Before I begin, I would like to lay out some definitions and rules which I forgot to do in R1 (I was in a rush), yet thankfully we have addressed these issues in the comments. For the voter’s reference, the definitions and powers of vampires and werewolves will be in the comments.

We will assume that it is a world war, half of the human population are vampires, half of the human population are werewolves. No semantics and trolling, any forfeiture will be considered a concession. I will now move on to my first contention.

1. WEREWOLVES ARE ONLY IN WOLF FORM ONCE A MONTH

It is common knowledge that werewolves only become werewolves at the full moon. Thus, for the majority of any month of the year they will be in human form, and thus vulnerable to vampires as they bite humans, not werewolves. Thus, through the entire year werewolves would POSSIBLY ONLY POSE A THREAT 12 nights a year. The majority of the other time, they are humans. My opponent may argue that while in human form, they could still win the war against vampires by hunting them down during the day and seeking refuge at night. I will refute this straw man’s theory now.
We can see through folklore, tales, and works of fiction that humans are notoriously incompetent and finding and killing vampires. Vampirism in the 1800s drove people to hysterics, often falsely accusing people of being vampires, and then killing them. Because of their woeful inadequacy, when people died, it was tradition to drive stakes through their heart or put bricks, lemons, or garlic in their mouths to prevent them from coming back to life as a vampire. [1] In Bulgaria, archaeologists have discovered over 100 bodies with iron spikes through their torso. [2] Count Dracula slept in has castle for centuries, and humans didn’t kill him. [3] The people knew about him as the people of Transylvania were in perpetual fear that he would awake. Furthermore, Slavs and Gypsies even worked for Dracula, protecting him while he slept or when transporting his coffin. We can see that while the vampire is sleeping, the humans wouldn’t be able to harm any of the vampires. When a werewolf returns to human form, they will have no memory of when they were a werewolf. There are some that have such strong will they can turn into a werewolf whenever, but this would be fatally dangerous for humans as they would go after humans if no vampire was present. [4]


2. EVEN IN WEREWOLF FORM, THE VAMPIRES WOULD DEFEAT THEM

Vampires are described to be 20 times stronger than the average human. Werewolves are described to have the strength of an animal. Vampire claws deliver 8000 pounds of force to their target, shown in the Deadliest Warrior. [3] Vampire can transform into any creature of the night, or even mist, making them essentially indestructible in that form. If required, a vampire can escape quickly from a werewolf or humans hunting them by turning into mist. Furthermore, vampires and werewolves have had disastrous run-ins before. Lycans (living dead werewolves) were almost completely eradicated by a single group of powerful vampires.[4] Werewolf power also depends on the moon, if there is heavy cloud cover than their power is severely negated. Older werewolves require more and more moonlight to fully transform into a werewolf. [4]

3. VAMPIRES ARE INTELLIGENT

Vampires possess unnatural speed, strength, and healing. My opponent may argue that werewolves have the same strength, senses, and speed as a vampire. The primary difference between a vampire and werewolf is how vampires retain human intelligence while werewolves give in to their feral nature. Thus a battle between vampires and werewolves would be ridiculously one sided as the vampires can work together while the werewolves howl at the moon and attack anything that moves. Though werewolves may form packs, they act like real life wolf packs, there will always be contests for the alpha and beta male.[4]

My opponent will without a doubt use this argument:

Humans can hang garlic and holy symbols around their household to ward off vampires and thus deprive them of blood.

This is incorrect. In Dracula, garlic is literally draped across every wall, every window, every crack and Dracula still enters and bites Lucy and converts her to a vampire.

So, without a doubt a vampire would thrash a werewolf in a fight until it goes home with its tail between its legs. I look forward to my opponent’s response.

  1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
  2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
  3. http://deadliestwarrior.wikia.com...
  4. http://mysticinvestigations.com...
Agent_Orange

Con

Best of luck to my opponent.

So for this war the population of earth is split in two, between the vampires and the werewolves. That leaves about 3.5 billion a side. Remember that.

CONTENTION 1."WEREWOLVES ARE ONLY IN WOLF FORM ONCE A MONTH"
Once upon a time, I would have been forced to concede this point, but in modern fiction the werewolf is able to transform whenever he wants. He is also able to keep his intelligence intact. Examples include the very popular young adult books Blood and Chocolate(http://en.wikipedia.org...(novel)), Twilight(http://en.wikipedia.org...(series)), but also The Dresden Files,Wolf Breed, Mortal Instruments, Big Fish ,Teen Wolf, The Howling(1981), True Blood, Okami ,and my personal favorite, The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim.

Contention 2:EVEN IN WEREWOLF FORM, THE VAMPIRES WOULD DEFEAT THEM
I'm not so sure about that. Van Helsinghttp://en.wikipedia.org...(film)has the titular character turning into a werewolf and defeating Dracula himself. Even if this were the case, It's a moot point anyway. I'll show you why. Where are these numbers coming from anyway? With so many variations on these two classic mythologies, it's impossible to just declare a degree of strength.

Contention 3. VAMPIRES ARE INTELLIGENT
Well we've established that wolves are too. Moot point.

Argument 1. The sun is a werewolves best friend.
My opponent made a point about humans not being able to find vampires during the day. Well those humans didn't have the smelling power of a wolf. If I'm head of the werewolf army, we're going hunting in the day. We find werewolves, we burn them or stake them while they sleep. Also we can harness the power of the sun in the form of UV flashlights. Amazon has a bunch of them. http://www.amazon.com.... We can use those at night to burn vampires. Can't say it won't work, we all seen Blade do it.

Argument 2. Your people are starving to death. Vampires can only feed on the blood of humans. They're are none left. Guess who's getting weaker everyday

Argument 3. You can never gain more troops.
A war this powerful can last decades. However vampires can not breed and since all humans are dead, you will only continue to loose numbers. The werewolf side can continue having and raising children to fight.

So in closing all I have to do is hunt you and your people down during the day and at night have our houses surrounded but UV lights . All the while you people are starving to death.
Debate Round No. 2
ishallannoyyo

Pro


I thank my opponent for his comments. I would now like to take this time to refute the arguments brought forth by my opponent.


In modern fiction the werewolf is able to transform whenever he wants.


My opponent’s entire case hinges on this point. Though in modern fiction the werewolf can transform whenever he want, in folklore (which is what I used to base my powers) the werewolf cannot. If we were to use modern fiction, vampires are not weak to sunlight, garlic, the stake, or decapitation (Twilight). With Van Helsing, stake, sunlight, and garlic all don’t effect Dracula. Since the lore of vampires and werewolves come from folklore, I believe that we should use folklore and not modern fiction as the basis for the abilities of vampires and werewolves, thus werewolves only transform at the full moon. [1]


Van Helsing has the titular character turning into a werewolf and defeating Dracula himself.


As I have shown regarding the lore of werewolves (R2), an entire race of werewolves were obliterated by a single group of vampires.


Well we’ve established that wolves are too.


If we go on folklore, this is clearly incorrect.


The sun is a werewolves best friend.


Clearly incorrect, werewolves only transform at the full moon, which is at night.


Vampires can only feed on humans.


Which werewolves are for the majority of the month.


Also we can harness the power of the sun in the form of UV flashlights.


This is a flawed statement. Traditionally in vampire folklore, vampires aren’t destroyed by sunlight. In fact, in Dracula Count Dracula goes out into the sun. Vampires aren’t destroyed by the sun, instead they are weakened. However, they are not severely weakened to the point where humans can overcome them. Dracula in the sunlight managed to beat off and escape from human males pursuing him. Even in the sun, vampires maintain enhanced strength and speed. Even in folklore, vampires aren’t weak to the sun. The idea that vampires are weak to the sun came from the film Nosferatu. [2]


Your people are starving to death.


As I have shown already, this is incorrect.


You can never gain more troops.


As I have shown already, this is incorrect.


Clearly, vampires would crush werewolves.


SOURCES


1.http://en.wikipedia.org...


2. http://www.draculas.info...


Agent_Orange

Con

First and foremost my opponent NEVER specified whether to use folklore or not. He gave a definition in the comments which I agreed with. Werewolves being able to transform when they want fits into his definition. He just says "Able to transform at the full moon" Well they can. So my argument still sticks.

But lets say they could only do it once a month. The sunlight is still their best friend.

My opponent says "Traditionally in vampire folklore, vampires aren't destroyed by sunlight. In fact, in Dracula Count Dracula goes out into the sun. Vampires aren't destroyed by the sun, instead they are weakened. However, they are not severely weakened to the point where humans can overcome them. Dracula in the sunlight managed to beat off and escape from human males pursuing him. Even in the sun, vampires maintain enhanced strength and speed. Even in folklore, vampires aren't weak to the sun. The idea that vampires are weak to the sun came from the film Nosferatu."

I'd like to point out that vampires being weak to sunlight, was something HE pointed out in HIS defintion. He's trying to retcon his weakness because I'm expertly exploiting them. Vampires are weak to sunlight and UV rays. Countless vampire media shows them bursting into flames as soon as sunlight touches their skin. SO THIS POINT STANDS.

As for the point of you starving to death. If it was my way and vampires can transform when they want, as per standard nowadays and you didn't specify what media to take it from, then you're fighting werewolves. You can't feed on werewolves. I'll give it to you that you can feed on them as humans but my wolves would be under order to NEVER be human around vamps. We'll outlast you

If they can only be a wolf once a month, then we hunt during the day and at night we stay in forts rigged up with giant UV lights. You get close and you'll fry. We'll also have holy symbols and garlic everywhere. WHICH YOU SAID VAMPIRES WERE WEAK TO. We'll outlast you.

You can't turn werewolves in to vampires. Even if you could you'd only make my forces stronger.

Your move.
Debate Round No. 3
ishallannoyyo

Pro


I thank my opponent for his comments. I would now like to take this time to refute some of the arguments brought forth by my opponent. Our different ideas regarding era needs to be addressed if this debate is to remain a debate.


He just says “Able to transform at the full moon” Well they can. So the argument sticks.


I feel this is semantics, but I will let it pass.


I’d like to point out that vampires being weak to sunlight was something HE pointed out in His definition.


The definition came from traditional folklore and common beliefs regarding vampires. I am not trying to “retcon” my “weakness”, merely using sources from the same era as my opponent. If we were using modern fiction, then vampires aren’t weak to sunlight as shown in Twilight, so his point regarding the UV flashlights is null and void.


I’ll give it to you that you can feed on them as humans but my wolves would be under order to NEVER be human around vamps.


This wouldn’t occur if we used folklore, they would have no choice. In Twilight, the vampires can still defeat the werewolves, even in wolf form.


If they can only be a wolf once a month, then we hunt during the day and at night we stay in forts rigged up with giant UV lights. You get close and you’ll fry. We’ll also have holy symbols and garlic everywhere.


My opponent has provided almost no sources for his assertion that UV lights affect vampires, as in folklore it is the natural sun that causes vampires to burst into flames. As I have shown already regarding symbols and garlic, Dracula still managed to slip through.



I feel that this debate has devolved into an era battle, I would like my opponent to clear up whether he meant modern folklore and ancient, classic folklore and we will use what my opponent decides as the basis for the rest of the debate.


Agent_Orange

Con

It wouldn't make sense to just pick and choose which qualities I want from over hundreds of werewolf stories. I have explicitly chosen details and traits that show up in a majority of modern folklore. For instance in the popular HBO drama Tru Blood, the werewolves are not weakened by silver at all, but it burns vampires and makes them weak. However I did not include this because it is not something that pops up often. It's only something the writers of Tru Blood created. However other features, such as werewolves being able to transform at will show up often in other media. So I used those traits.

The definition came from traditional folklore and common beliefs regarding vampires. I am not trying to “retcon” my “weakness”, merely using sources from the same era as my opponent. If we were using modern fiction, then vampires aren’t weak to sunlight as shown in Twilight, so his point regarding the UV flashlights is null and void.

Yeah but see, that's not a common occurance of Modern ficition. In fact that wasn't even in the books. That was specifically created for the movie and mocked endlessly because it was so ridiculous.

This wouldn’t occur if we used folklore, they would have no choice. In Twilight, the vampires can still defeat the werewolves, even in wolf form.

Actually Vampires being able to defeat a werewold one-on-one is very common in modern fiction but my wolves would only attack in packs and only after we've let you starve to death.

Here's proof that UV would work on vampires http://trueblood.wikia.com...;
http://marvel.wikia.com...'s_UV_Grenade_001.jpg
Debate Round No. 4
ishallannoyyo

Pro

I thank my opponent for his comments. I would now like to take this time to refute some of the arguments brought forth by my opponent.

Yeah but see, that's not a common occurrence of modern fiction.
Incorrect. The Vampire Diaries, True Blood, and Twilight (all three of these IMMENSLY POPULAR) all portray vampires to have a certain resistance over the sun. In The Vampire Diaries, vampires wearing jewellery that a witch has cast a spell on are invulnerable to the sun and in True Blood if you stand on the other side of a special window the sun can't harm you. Also, I would not consider Marvel's Blade to be as popular as both The Vampire Diaries and Twilight combined, thus those "UV grenades" won't work as they aren't portrayed in enough popular modern fiction.

Actually Vampires being able to defeat a werewolf one-on-one is very common in modern fiction but my wolves would only attack in packs and only after we've let you starve to death.
So us vampires are so stupid we wouldn't band together just like in Twilight and hunt you down? Also, the entire Cullen family in Twilight survives off of animal blood. Also, why can't we just drink the blood in hospitals? You know, the gallons of the stuff in blood donation banks? This raises another question, what will werewolves eat? Traditional folklore's have werewolves having an insatiable desire to devour human flesh, however we need to use modern fiction.


I feel that this debate has turned into a joke with the majority of the rounds bickering on whether we should use modern fiction or the traditional folklore's that created the myths of these characters. Thus, I feel that this debate should remain a tie, yet the decision ultimately lies with the vote. I would remind my opponent that no new arguments can be posted in his final round.
Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 2 years ago
PowerPikachu21
OBJECTION!!!

Pro contradicted himself a bit

At the end, he said they needed to use modern fiction when he was continually wanting to use folklore.

Also, Pro told Con to not argue further, and Con agrees, then Pro says that Con dropped arguments, plus, R5 was supposed to be just conclusions, but Pro made a whole rebuttal during R5. Maybe that was supposed to happen? I'm not sure, but I don't really like this. I'm saying Con was better.
Posted by ishallannoyyo 5 years ago
ishallannoyyo
You just dropped your argument for R5...
Posted by ishallannoyyo 5 years ago
ishallannoyyo
Yay! Violence :)
Posted by Agent_Orange 5 years ago
Agent_Orange
OK. War it is.
Posted by ishallannoyyo 5 years ago
ishallannoyyo
If I don't get a response before I need to post my argument, I'll just go with a war between the two.
Posted by ishallannoyyo 5 years ago
ishallannoyyo
I've already written a whole speech on the basis that they would battle it out.
Posted by ishallannoyyo 5 years ago
ishallannoyyo
Wait, NOT OK.

I would rather it be like the other debates on this website where the werewolf and vampire would battle it out, that's way cooler and there are more things to argue than "You can fly! You can punch real hard! You can kick real hard!" you know?
Posted by ishallannoyyo 5 years ago
ishallannoyyo
Ok
Posted by Agent_Orange 5 years ago
Agent_Orange
No. Better as in more preferable to be.
Posted by frozen_eclipse 5 years ago
frozen_eclipse
dude you have to let me no when this is done i totally want to vote on this...lol
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Zaradi 5 years ago
Zaradi
ishallannoyyoAgent_OrangeTied
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Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: There's literally no way to accurately vote on this without arbitrary judge intervention. Pro is correct that this debate hinges on which era we pull information from (if folklore, then vampires and if modern fiction, then werewolves). But you two both argued as if you presume your era to be the better one without providing arguments as to why your era should be preferred. So this gives me as a judge no way to pick an era to go off of without stepping past my bounds. No vote.