The Instigator
KingofTheSkullServants
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Harambe_666
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Veganism is being blown WAY out of proportions.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/7/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 715 times Debate No: 97739
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (20)
Votes (0)

 

KingofTheSkullServants

Pro

I'm going to be taking another stab at this topic.

I believe veganism is being blown way out of proportions because a lot of vegans seem to be in a mentality that veganism is the only way to go, and its actually the reason I'm not a vegan. One way that veganism is being blown out of proportions is the fact that some vegans try to make you feel guilty about eating meat.

I all seriousness, what's the point to veganism. Is it to say the animals? Is it to be more healthy? I'd like to know because the last time I debated on this topic, the person said it was bad for animals to be in slaughter houses, but he also said it was bad for them to be in the wild. So, I'd like to the purpose of veganism.
Harambe_666

Con

First debate!

I am not personally a vegan, but I highly respect vegans and I think that it is very inaccurate to say that veganism is being blown "WAY out of proportions." Veganism is a good way to lead a healthy lifestyle, to enforce animal rights and to improve the state of the natural environment.

Veganism is highly beneficial to one's health, and is also a good way to avoid several common diseases. Vegan diets are very low in saturated fat and cholesterol, commonly found in meat and dairy products, which has negative impacts to health such as heart disease and stroke. It is also an effective way to lower blood pressure, due to the extensive role of whole grains and vegetables in a vegan diet. Also, it has been proven that a vegan diet is capable of combatting diabetes, in which fats and sugar (commonly found in meat and dairy products) plays an important part. A vegan diet can help one lose weight and keep a healthy body mass index while maintaining a proper intake of important nutrients such as vitamins and proteins. It is also proven by studies that vegans and vegetarians live an average of three to six years longer than those who routinely consume meat and dairy.

Animal rights is also an important cause for which many people take on a vegan lifestyle. It is estimated that more than twenty thousand cows are slaughtered every day in the United States alone, and that 56 billion farm animals worldwide are killed each year for food. Though many people state animal mistreatment and poor living conditions for livestock as reasons to adopt a vegan lifestyle, what most people do not know is that the maltreatment of animals can be physically harmful for humans as well. When animals are slaughtered or mistreated, their bodies tend to release many harmful hormones to reflect a condition of stress. When humans consume meat products, these hormones are actually released into the human body and can cause side effects such as fatigue or malaise. Therefore, this mistreatment of animals is harmful both for the animals themselves and us humans.

Finally, adopting a vegan diet is a good way to reduce one's egological footprint and to make a positive difference towards the environment. It is estimated that it takes 722 gallons of water for every single pound of consumable beef to be produced. This can cause an unwanted stress on the already weak amounts of water in the world. According to many scientific claims, such as the one proposed by the Downstream Project, four to five earths would be necessary in order to sustain the world population durably if every human were to live like the average American citizen. A large factor behind this estimate is that the American public is the largest consumer of beef and other meat products worldwide, which uses a worryingly elevated amount of water.

In all, I think that there is nothing "out of proportions" to veganism. It is healthy and reduces one's impact on the environment. In the future, as resources lessen and more scientific studies are conducted in the field, I believe that more and more people will adopt a vegan diet for its many benefits. Though vegans remain the minority today, I still maintain a profound respect for their dedication to themselves and to the world.
Debate Round No. 1
KingofTheSkullServants

Pro

Okay, so to make myself clear on the "WAY out of proportions" part, I've seen vegans on the internet treat veganism as a religion and make it sound like if you're not a vegan, you're an awful human being.

Firstly, meat isn't a bad thing. Did you know that you can increase your metabolism speed by eating lots of high-protein foods. Most meats contain about 20 to 30 percent of protein. Coupled with the strength training, you can start building muscle mass. Protein helps with the growth and repair of damaged tissue, and those with muscle mass will have likely to have a faster metabolism speed. Before you say something along the lines of "but there are other sources of protein" meat has more protein than say peanuts.

Secondly, if veganism is to support animal rights, then why don't people know about their contribute to stuff like global warming, and erosion to the surrounding area, and air/water pollution. Yes, these are real things, animals can contribute to, it's not just humans who do this. While, yes, animals being in a slaughterhouse is a bad thing, you can't stop factories and slaughterhouses won't stop just because a few people say "but, my veganism". Also, if a majority of the population was vegan, there would be a major drop in fruit and veggie production because more people will be demanding veggies. I think that's how it works.

Finally, if you think the 722 gallons of water is bad, think about how much water it would take to water all the extra crops on top of the original amount of crops.
Harambe_666

Con

First off, when you say that vegans on the internet "treat veganism as a religion and make it sound like if you're not a vegan, you're an awful human being," you should give an example so that we know exactly what you're talking about. Of course there are vegans on the internet trying to persuade others to adopt a vegan lifestyle - they're simply passionate about their cause and wish to do good to the world through their own way. There's nothing wrong about that. These vegans are simply passionate and wish to defend their beliefs, as would social activists or just about anyone else. I also agree that there are individuals who go way beyond the limits in criticizing others on their lifestyles, but there will always be people of this sort, even non-vegans, who say that vegans are ignorant, uninformed, etc. No need to make it sound like vegans are the only ones doing this.

Of course, meat isn't necessarily a bad thing. I agree that it can be a good or even better source of protein, which helps in many bodily functions. However, a misconception that I think needs to be addressed is that the human body does not need as much proteins as we think - 56 grams for the average man and 46 grams for the average woman every day. That's about a twentieth of a kilogram. The average American consumes much more than this guideline, which amounts to fat gain and other health issues such as osteoporosis. This is one of the greatest reasons why America has the highest obesity rates in the Western world. Bodybuilding can also be achieved with other means than eating meat; there are endless examples of strong, healthy athletes who depend on a vegan diet, such as Mike Tyson. There are countless vegan foods containing reasonable amounts of protein, such as tofu and lentils. No need to depend so much on meat.

Secondly, I would like to correct you on several points you brought up in your argument. Vegans do know about their contribution to the natural environment, if that's what you're wondering by "then why don't people know about their contribute to stuff like global warming, and erosion to the surrounding area, and air/water pollution." This is a huge reason for which many people resort to veganism, and you can ask vegans around you to confirm that point. Also, 722 gallons of water is a lot compared to the amount of water used to grow vegetables. Only about 10 gallons of water is necessary to grow a pound of lettuce - you can see how the two compare. Also, a few vegans are definitely not enough to stop the animal slaughter business as a whole, but they are already making a difference to many animals, no matter how minimal, and that's what matters to them - knowing that they've done everything in their part to make a difference. Also, just because the slaughter business is unstoppable as of the moment doesn't mean that it is morally justified. And just because the slaughter business is still up and running right now doesn't mean that vegans should give up believing in a better world for the people, the animals and the environment. Also, animals don't cause pollution! I don't know where you got that information, but it's simply not true. Animals are part of a well-defined ecosystem that regulates every aspect of itself. The waste they create can be used to fertilise the soil. They consume plants in a well-defined manner so that the plants can always grow back. I've never heard of animals causing industrial pollution, or global warming, or mass deforestations. Humans are the main and ONLY cause to the rapid deterioration in the present world.

"Also, if a majority of the population was vegan, there would be a major drop in fruit and veggie production because more people will be demanding veggies. I think that's how it works."

"I think that's how it works."

If the majority of the population were vegan, there would be a major raise in fruit and veggie production because more people will be demanding veggies. A well-known, established rule is that the greater the demand, the greater the production numbers to meet that demand. This will mean more economic opportunities for farmers, and jobs for rural communities as well. Remember the transitions from fossil fuels to renewable energy sources? Electricity, for example, grew into a prevalent power source in a matter of years, and the same will occur if the majority of the population were vegan. The world would be a much better place if the majority were vegan.

I think THAT's how it works.
Debate Round No. 2
KingofTheSkullServants

Pro

Firstly, there are vegans on the internet that treat veganism as a religion. Though, I can't give an actual example, they do exist. In fact, I believe this is one of the reasons why a lot of people don't turn to veganism, its because of people on the internet. Vegans put a bad impression on themselves, thus, people decided to say no to veganism. I have nothing against veganism, you do you man, my issue is when you have vegans knocking on my hypothetical door (the internet) acting as a Jahovus witness and wants me to convert. And, yes, some vegans can be ignorant or uninformed because there will be vegans who will be those thing. Unfortunately, I have had the unfortunate displeasure of coming across one of those people on a YouTube comment section. They kept arguing other people in the comments and when I called him out on it, he made like a good 5 minute read, as a comment. I know I'm not going to detailed about it, but its one of those moments where you don't want to go back to it. Except I just went back to it, god damn it.

Secondly, not to be rude, but have you heard of this thing called limits. It's very helpful when eating. Also, meat isn't the only reason for obesity and the such, sodas, candy, chips, and other foods contribute to that. Yet, not even a mention on your end.

Third, if you can go to my page and look for my first vegan argument, you'll find that my opponent has all the information on animals being a danger to the environment right there. I would tolerate if the information would be used if me and my opponent were swapped, but nope, he just made a big cluster f*ck of a mess that is not being consistent. But, for real http://www.debate.org... here's the link. Go do the research because my opponent has done it for you.
Harambe_666

Con

To start off my last argument, I'd just like to say that if you find me rude or offensive during this round, don't be so surprised. After all, if you don't give others respect, expect them to return the favour.

The last person you debated on the topic was quite lacking in intelligence, and certainly did not know how to justify his case. From what I've seen, he was helping you for the entire duration of his arguments, and was certainly making a brilliant f*cking mess out of the debate. The thing is, everything emits pollution to a certain degree, but pollution caused by animals in the natural environment is minimal. They are part of a well-functioning ecosystem that controls itself on its own. Certainly, animals in the natural environment can pollute water to a small degree, or others, but it is nothing compared to the amount of pollution and resource consommation caused by man-led grazing and the livestock industry. Once again, the world can't tolerate 8 billion full-fledged meat consumers; it would take 5 earths to sustain 8 billion average Americans. At one point, people have to realize that our planet can support 8 billion vegans but not 8 billion meat eaters. Contrary to some of the comments, the amount of deforestation caused by vegetable farming is much smaller than the amount caused by grazing and livestock farming. One acre of land can yield 50000 pounds of tomatoes, but only 250 pounds of beef.

You can perhaps say that traditionally vegan peoples, such as the Chinese and Japanese, often tend to be shorter compared to their caucasian counterparts. However, this can have a genetic factor as well; humans adopt to their respective living conditions physically through a long period of time, and this is called "evolution." Their heights may also be related to diet, but it is important to keep in mind that historically, they had less food to eat than in many developed nations. Also, Japan has the longest life expectancy rate, partly due to their diet structure which is small on meat.

Now, just saying, I'm pretty sure that not all vegans treat their diet like a religion on the internet. If you've come upon one then good for you. They don't represent all vegans. Again, if you can't find a precise example then I'm assuming that the example doesn't exist and can't be found. In other words, you need proof in order for other people to believe you. Without it, it would be like me saying that meat-eaters worship meat and treat vegans like subhumans. Saying that one vegan who treats veganism like a religion represents all vegans would be like saying coming upon one ignorant and disrespectful meat-eater like you means that all meat-eaters are like you. The majority of vegans stick to their own and simply mind their own business. On the other hand, non-vegans like you are really not minding your own business. Simply let vegans be who they are, without any of the disrespect. F*cking ypocrite.
Debate Round No. 3
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Harambe_666 1 year ago
Harambe_666
Wow, I thought I only posted one comment.
My computer really is a piece of sh*t.
Posted by KingofTheSkullServants 1 year ago
KingofTheSkullServants
chill out, my dude. There's no need for spamming comments.
Posted by Harambe_666 1 year ago
Harambe_666
And, cooked meat tastes better in any way possible. Assuming, of course, that you're not talking about sushi. Vegans are definitely not the only ones who think that humans can't eat raw meat. That list extends to anyone with a pertinent knowledge of health and science.
Posted by Harambe_666 1 year ago
Harambe_666
And, cooked meat tastes better in any way possible. Assuming, of course, that you're not talking about sushi. Vegans are definitely not the only ones who think that humans can't eat raw meat. That list extends to anyone with a pertinent knowledge of health and science.
Posted by Harambe_666 1 year ago
Harambe_666
And, cooked meat tastes better in any way possible. Assuming, of course, that you're not talking about sushi. Vegans are definitely not the only ones who think that humans can't eat raw meat. That list extends to anyone with a pertinent knowledge of health and science.
Posted by Harambe_666 1 year ago
Harambe_666
And, cooked meat tastes better in any way possible. Assuming, of course, that you're not talking about sushi. Vegans are definitely not the only ones who think that humans can't eat raw meat. That list extends to anyone with a pertinent knowledge of health and science.
Posted by Harambe_666 1 year ago
Harambe_666
Modern humans can't eat raw meat. All commercial meat circulating around contain antibiotics, and bacteria/parasites to some degree. Also, no commercial meat is guaranteed 100% fresh. You're expected to cook it to ensure that it's healthy for you. Animals in the wild aren't that much better. Sure, ancient humans way back probably ate raw meat to some degree, but a huge number of them died of disease so...
Posted by Harambe_666 1 year ago
Harambe_666
Bitch
No they wouldn't
Humans rule the world because of their intelligence
Not because they eat meat
Tell me, why don't lions rule the world then?
Posted by TheBenC 1 year ago
TheBenC
If apes ate meat they would rule the world today.
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