The Instigator
27376
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
baus
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

Vegetarians and vegans should at least let their kids try meat out once.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
baus
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/24/2014 Category: Health
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 707 times Debate No: 55361
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

27376

Pro

In my opinion, kids born to vegetarian households should be allowed to try meat out. Because it is their decision if they want to eat meat or not. If they do, then when they go out to eat or over to a friends house they should be allowed to eat meat. I'm not saying that the vegetarian parents should cook meat on their grill, oven, etc. what I'm saying is to let the kid eat what he wants when He out to eat.
And if the kid doesn't like meat or he truly does believe that meat us murder, then he can choose to live that lifestyle. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Some parents would say that you can make your own decisions when your older. But by that time since the kid has never had meat. They will get sick from it everytime they try to eat it.
Plus, kids can get bullied at school fir being a vegetarian. Or worse, kids could try to force them to eat meat. Which could mean a lawsuit.
I will get into much more detail with each of these things as the debate moves on. And once again, I'm not against people being vegetarians.
baus

Con

First let's look at the moral issue. If you are vegetarian, especially vegan, you believe that eating meat is inherently immoral and that to do so is making you pure scum. If you didn't have this belief, then why are you vegetarian to begin with?

Vegetarianism and Veganism is not simply avoiding to eat meat and animal-related products, it's going so far as to say that there is moral loss and scarification to one's soul or moral debt if they choose to do this.

Why on Earth should such parents allow their children to scar their own soul or tarnish their lack of karmic debt?

There is simply no reason at all.

Let me now list Pro's arguments and disprove them one by one:

(1) "It is the child's decision whether they consent to eating meat or not."

This is false for a variety or reasons. First of all, "children" are, by definition, below the age of majority as theis is the exact age of a society where a child is labelled an adult [http://www.bclaws.ca...]. The age of majority is the age at which the concept of 'consent' is even considered to be possible for a person to give.

(2) "I'm not saying that the vegetarian parents should cook meat on their grill, oven, etc. what I'm saying is to let the kid eat what he wants when He out to eat."

This is actually worse fr a vegan or vegetarian to do because if they cook it on their own grill, then they can ensure they're buying is organic whereas in a restaurant you have no clue how cruelly that animal was being treated in it battery farm environment before ending up on your plate. thus the parents are more likely to be funding inorganic farming in a restaurant than at their own home. This is especially true if the 'eating out' is a a fast-food outlet.

(3) "And if the kid doesn't like meat or he truly does believe that meat us murder, then he can choose to live that lifestyle."

why must the parents let their child beak one of their most sacred values for the sake of the child then regretting it ever broke the value in the first place? That's not only putting a burden fo guilt on the parents but causing hte kid to frever regret eating the meat it could have avoided eating.

(4) "Some parents would say that you can make your own decisions when your older. But by that time since the kid has never had meat. They will get sick from it everytime they try to eat it."

This is an absolute lie. It is a literal biological lie. There is absolutely no correlation between time in life that one first eats meat and the probability that they will get sick from it.

(5) "Plus, kids can get bullied at school fir being a vegetarian."

Then discipline the bullies, not the vegetarian.

(6) "Or worse, kids could try to force them to eat meat. Which could mean a lawsuit."

They can also be forced to have sex with an older man, which could lead to a lawsuit, should we let them have a go at sex because of that?
Debate Round No. 1
27376

Pro

"This is false for a variety or reasons. First of all, "children" are, by definition, below the age of majority as theis is the exact age of a society where a child is labelled an adult [http://www.bclaws.ca......]. The age of majority is the age at which the concept of 'consent' is even considered to be possible for a person to give."

All you are saying is that children are not of the age of majority. All that law says is that in court children is to be concidered a minor if he/she is under the age of 19, instead of 21. This law is intended to be used in court cases.

"This is actually worse fr a vegan or vegetarian to do because if they cook it on their own grill, then they can ensure they're buying is organic whereas in a restaurant you have no clue how cruelly that animal was being treated in it battery farm environment before ending up on your plate. thus the parents are more likely to be funding inorganic farming in a restaurant than at their own home. This is especially true if the 'eating out' is a a fast-food outlet."

What i meant by they dont have to use their oven, grill, etc is that most vegans and vegetarians dont cook stumtff on a grill where meat has ever been. What i was infering was that it doesnt have to make your heat source corrupt. Also, you dont have to give your kid mcdonalds, you can give him something good from a coney island or a nice restaraunt. But not too nice to spoil them.

"why must the parents let their child beak one of their most sacred values for the sake of the child then regretting it ever broke the value in the first place? That's not only putting a burden fo guilt on the parents but causing hte kid to frever regret eating the meat it could have avoided eating."

The reason why letting a kid break his parents beliefs is because its what they believe in. Its not your right to take away something so simple that doesnt harm them or ruin their life forever. If the child chooses never to try meat, then thats their decision. Kids have rights that they dont know they have thanks to you.

"(4) "Some parents would say that you can make your own decisions when your older. But by that time since the kid has never had meat. They will get sick from it everytime they try to eat it."

Plenty of vegetarians get sick from eating meat again. Very few can get away from that habit. But if the vegetarian is willing to go thru a few weeks of sickness than theyll be back to normal. A journey that few are willing to take. (http://www.divinecaroline.com...).

"Then discipline the bullies, not the vegetarian."

Disciplining bullies is a lot harder than you think. Most dont care avout rules and dont care about what happens to them.

"They can also be forced to have sex with an older man, which could lead to a lawsuit, should we let them have a go at sex because of that?"

First off, thats rape and thats illegal. Meat is not illegal and is one of the most normal things there is on earth. Second off, their is a lot more consequences to sex than there is to trying meat.
baus

Con

My opponent concedes that the law ignores a kid's/child's ability to give consent until they reach the age of majority. Thus to bring consent up with a child/kid is futile.

How would cooking meat make your heat source corrupt any more than it would make the kitchen in the restaurant corrupt for it to cook that meal for you? I don't care if you even go to 5-star restaurant, you have no idea how badly the animal you're getting was treated when it was alive and the restaurant would most likely sugarcoat it if you happened to ask them. Restaurants are too profit-oriented to care about organic produce and if you did find a farm that sold organic meat, there is still the issue of violating your vegetarian, or vegan, code to begin with.

You say it doesn't harm or ruin their life forever but if you believe in karma, it can make them severely in karmic debt or if you think your child will grow up to become vegan or vegetarian they'll have a burden of guilt for having eaten that meat that will haunt them for the rest of their lives as they can't even blame the parents for making them do it, they would blame themselves for their whole life for eating it and hate themselves. There is absolutely nowhere in the law that states that kids have the right to eat meat if their parents are vegetarian or vegan.

firstly you said "eating meat again" what did you mean by "again"? That would completely destroy your case. Your own source states "Not all vegetarians-turned-omnivores feel sick after their first meal back, because we don"t all have the same diets and therefore don"t digest everything the same way and with the same results." [http://www.divinecaroline.com...] They then mention that it's only those who begin at fast food outlets who begin the sickness initiation. Thus, if the vegetarian has a balanced diet, according to your own source, they will not suffer form any ailments. This, much more scientifically verifiable, source phttp://sciencenordic.com...] states that it is only going to make them will if they just have a huge T-bone steak for dinner without any other foods to supplement it. That would make anyone sick. point is invalid and actually false. The eating of meat doe snot make a vegetarian sick, it's merely how balanced a diet they have when they begin. Some vegetarians begin binge meat-eating and your own sources say that this is the only thing that makes them sick. On top of that letting the kid eat meat only once int heir childhood will not make them any more capable of digesting meat at a later stage because their stomach would have long 'forgotten' it.

I don't care how hard it is to discipline bullies. You are going to discipline them because letting a vegetarian get punished for their way of life by bullying is not acceptable in the slightest.

Actually, forcing a child to eat meat against their will is called child abuse. If other children do it, it's called non-sexual molestation because they touched the child's body, especially the mouth, in a way that traumatizes them. In worst-case scenarios it's referred to as blackmail.
Debate Round No. 2
27376

Pro

For the record, im not a vegan or vegetarian and i believe that eating meat is a great thing. Please dont try to change my viewpoint though, because you wont. Ive just seen too many kids born out of vegan/vegetarian households and they never eat meat because their parents put a ton of lies in their head.

"My opponent concedes that the law ignores a kid's/child's ability to give consent until they reach the age of majority. Thus to bring consent up with a child/kid is futile."

My point exactly. All you are missing though is that this law is for court purposes. If anyone goes into your source and reads that law thoroghly, anyone can easily tell its for court cases only. "

"How would cooking meat make your heat source corrupt any more than it would make the kitchen in the restaurant corrupt for it to cook that meal for you? I don't care if you even go to 5-star restaurant, you have no idea how badly the animal you're getting was treated when it was alive and the restaurant would most likely sugarcoat it if you happened to ask them. Restaurants are too profit-oriented to care about organic produce and if you did find a farm that sold organic meat, there is still the issue of violating your vegetarian, or vegan, code to begin with."

The reason why you cook on a seperate grill is so the stuff left behind infrim meat such as smells, fat, pieces of meat,etc doesnt get left behind. If your a true vegan tou dont have anything to do with meat products, right? And if yhat doesnt bother you then move out to where theres no one for a lot of miles and raise your own pigs and cows. Or, even easier is to take them crawfish hunting or if you live by the coast then take them fishing.

"firstly you said "eating meat again" what did you mean by "again"? That would completely destroy your case. Your own source states "Not all vegetarians-turned-omnivores feael sick after their first meal back, because we don"t all have the same diets and therefore don"t digest everything the same way and with the same results." [http://www.divinecaroline.com......] They then mention that it's only those who begin at fast food outlets who begin the sickness initiation. Thus, if the vegetarian has a balanced diet, according to your own source, they will not suffer form any ailments. This, much more scientifically verifiable, source phttp://sciencenordic.com......] states that it is only going to make them will if they just have a huge T-bone steak for dinner without any other foods to supplement it. That would make anyone sick. point is invalid and actually false. The eating of meat doe snot make a vegetarian sick, it's merely how balanced a diet they have when they begin. Some vegetarians begin binge meat-eating and your own sources say that this is the only thing that makes them sick. On top of that letting the kid eat meat only once int heir childhood will not make them any more capable of digesting meat at a later stage because their stomach would have long 'forgotten' it."

What i meant by they would eat meat again is i was saying that they might have of had meat before, si now they are trying it again. No body gets sick from just eating meat at a dinner. Only vegetarians would because thay are not used to it.

"I don't care how hard it is to discipline bullies. You are going to discipline them because letting a vegetarian get punished for their way of life by bullying is not acceptable in the slightest."

Yes bullies do need to be stopped, but there is worse things out there than being made fun of for being vegetarian.

"Actually, forcing a child to eat meat against their will is called child abuse. If other children do it, it's called non-sexual molestation because they touched the child's body, especially the mouth, in a way that traumatizes them. In worst-case scenarios it's referred to as blackmail."

We are not fircing children to ear against there will. All im saying is that children have the right to choose. If they dont want to eat meat then thats fine, but if they do they should have every right to do so.

You keep talking about karma. Whats so bad about eating meat. Does this mean im going to die by a beart attack at age 79 instead of peacefully in my sleep at 80 for eating animals? If so then thats fine by me.
baus

Con

Sorry, the link I meant to post for the second link was this: http://sciencenordic.com...

The law is not only for court cases. Court cases occur when the law applying to an individual is suspected as having been disobeyed where it should have been obeyed. They must obey the law at all times outside of the court room and the law applies throughout an entire action at all times. It has no time that it switches on or off. The consent of children is nonexistent, according to the law, both inside and outside of a courtroom.

I am still at a loss as to why on Earth you are asking a vegan to break their entire code of ethics to curse their child's soul when they can avoid doing so and be happier, as can the child.

You again lie that vegetarians would get sick form eating meat. This is a lie. I am telling you to your face that you are absolutely lying and that your own source contradicts you and you continue to lie. This is severely poor conduct on your part.

I have no idea as to why you would condone bullying a vegetarian to make them eat meat as remotely acceptable. I , additionally, do not understand why this means the parents should allow their kid to eat meat once in their life or how there is any relation between the two.

You said, in round one, that children can force the child to eat meat. You now are retracting that statement and conceding a major point in your debate.

I do not believe in karma, nor do I understand how it works but many vegetarians are associated with religions that do. http://www.pages.drexel.edu...

Although Hindus prefer to call it Dharma, as opposed to Karma, the concept is extremely similar in regards to meat-eating.

I conclude that there is absolutely no grounds on which parents should allow their child to eat meat once.
Debate Round No. 3
27376

Pro

27376 forfeited this round.
baus

Con

Extending all arguments.
Debate Round No. 4
27376

Pro

I am sorry for forfeiting the last round as i was busy. And thank you for doing the same. I respect you much more now.

And i am tired of repeating myself everytime. Everything im going to say to you is in the third round. Its that simple. Its up to the parents. Obviousely you are not going to let your kids have meat. But if that kid wants to have meat it is his/hers right as an american to do so. What you are saying by forcing all vegetarians/vegans to continue to do so.

Also. If the worlds food supply runs out and the easiest thing to eat is a pig, cow, turkey, etc. you are saying is youd rather die than ti stay alive? Man hunted and ate meat for centuries and they didnt owe and karma debt to anybody. Meat is a naturalthing and the fact that you dont want to eat it is fine by me. But the fact that you are forcing your kid to eat none of it even if they want to is a form if torture. Seriously, if you put steak in front if me and id have to eat beans and stuff everyday because my parents told me to would be torture.

Thanks for the fun debate.
baus

Con

I shall do this in a (c)ontention and (r)ebuttal style against my opponent's R5.

C: It's up to the parents.
R: And so it should be.

C: Obviously you are not going to let your kids have meat.
R: This has nothing to do with my own beliefs.

C: If a kid wants to have meat it is his/her right as an American to do so.
R: No it isn't. There is absolutely nowhere in American law that says children must be permitted to have meat as and when they want it.

C: What you are saying by forcing all vegetarians/vegans to continue to do so.
R: That made absolutely no sense.

C: If the world's food supply runs out and the easiest thing to eat is a pig, cow, turkey, etc. you are saying is you'd rather die than let it stay alive?
R: You said it's the easiest option. If i were a vegetarian, or vegan, I wouldn't take this 'easier' option, I'd survive by tougher means.

C: Man hunted and ate meat for centuries and they didnt owe and karma debt to anybody.
R: Global warming.

C: Meat is a natural thing.
R: Especially when it comes from a human being.

C: The fact that you dont want to eat it is fine by me.
R: I love meat.

C: The fact that that you are forcing your kid to eat none of it even if they want to is a form of torture.
R: No it isn't, it's a form of self-discipline, which is a very important thing to learn in maturity.

C: Seriously, if you put steak in front if me and I'd have to eat beans and stuff everyday because my parents told me to would be torture.
R: We should have just broken your fingers one by one instead, I guess.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by 27376 3 years ago
27376
On one of your r's in r5. Global warming isnt real si its not a karmatuc debt.
Posted by ExsurgeDomine 3 years ago
ExsurgeDomine
'Vegetarianism and Veganism is not simply avoiding to eat meat and animal-related products, it's going so far as to say that there is moral loss and scarification to one's soul or moral debt if they choose to do this.'

Did this seriously go uncontested? I'm a vegetarian, but I don't think it's morally wrong (per se) to eat meat.
Posted by baus 3 years ago
baus
Sorry this is the science link for my round 2: http://sciencenordic.com...
Posted by Dilara 3 years ago
Dilara
I'm a vegetarian and I'm going to let my kids try meat (samples in supermarkets, dishes when we're out) as long as it's not from a factory farm.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 3 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
27376bausTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Good debate. Pro ff'd one round, conduct goes Con. No major spelling diffs. Con won most of the points and rebutted most of Pro's points, and provided more sources.
Vote Placed by Cold-Mind 3 years ago
Cold-Mind
27376bausTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: 1.Pro brought up that kids would be bullied for being vegetarian, which is presumption I don't agree with, but even if it was true, I don't see how "trying meat out once" would help in that case. 2. Pro made redundant talk in beginning of rounds 3 and 5. 3. Con made well formatted round 5. 4. Pro forfeited.