The Instigator
Smarticles
Pro (for)
Losing
16 Points
The Contender
candice
Con (against)
Winning
48 Points

Vegetarinism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/8/2008 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,109 times Debate No: 3133
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
Votes (19)

 

Smarticles

Pro

I think eating meat is horrible especially if you know what happens to them. That is just my opinion, but not everyones but I decided I would see how many people are vegetarians on debate.org...and who isn't. And to see if I can change anyones mind.
candice

Con

What is interesting to me, is that most vegetarian's have never kept a garden, or seen Animals raised and produced for human consumption. As I am from Oklahoma, and grew up on a farm, I have done both of these things. Who are you to say that a farmer cannot treat an animal intended to be eaten with respect, and care? Many vegetarian's are basing these opinions off of horror video's they've seen from the random abuse of animals. Large cultivated fields attract lizards, rodents, rabbits, turtles, squirrels,(and so on) and then larger predators attracted to those vermin and small animals. What do vegetarian's suppose happens to the animals in those crops as they're harvested with large machines? All these animals are killed. Not to mention (if your not going organic) the harmful chemicals released directly effecting the environment around which they are used. Then after the crops have all been plucked, they're readied for travel to the grocery store. All the animals I mentioned earlier(that weren't killed from the harvesting machines) are now left with no shelter or food, and are now vulnerable to they're predators. Thus, the continuation of the natural food chain. Human's, are included in this food chain, which leads me to my next point:

Human's are not intended to be vegetarians. Vegetarian's get protein from nuts and soy, which has proven to be bad when taken in mass quantities for long periods of time. 10 reasons soy should not be a humans main source of protein:

1.High levels of phytic acid in soy reduce assimilation of calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and zinc. Phytic acid in soy is not neutralized by ordinary preparation methods such as soaking, sprouting and long, slow cooking. High phytate diets have caused growth problems in children.

2.Trypsin inhibitors in soy interfere with protein digestion and may cause pancreatic disorders. In test animals soy containing trypsin inhibitors caused stunted growth.

3.Soy phytoestrogens disrupt endocrine function and have the potential to cause infertility and to promote breast cancer in adult women.

4.Soy phytoestrogens are potent antithyroid agents that cause hypothyroidism and may cause thyroid cancer. In infants, consumption of soy formula has been linked to autoimmune thyroid disease.

5.Vitamin B12 analogs in soy are not absorbed and actually increase the body's requirement for B12.

6.Soy foods increase the body's requirement for vitamin D.

7.Fragile proteins are denatured during high temperature processing to make soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein.

8.Processing of soy protein results in the formation of toxic lysinoalanine and highly carcinogenic nitrosamines.

9.Free glutamic acid or MSG, a potent neurotoxin, is formed during soy food processing and additional amounts are added to many soy foods.

10.Soy foods contain high levels of aluminum which is toxic to the nervous system and the kidneys.
Source: http://www.westonaprice.org...

Fat's and proteins found from animals, have already been broken down and refined, and are more suitable for human bodies thereafter to breakdown and use for more refined and rounded nourishment.

The argument that "eating meat is horrible" doesn't make me want to all of a sudden have everyone in the world stop eating it. How naive to think that when people are starving in parts of the world (that you don't see) should give up a huge part of they're food source. So you don't have to think of animals being killed. What about HUMANS dying of hunger?

I have many more arguments, but I don't want to make this super long, and there's two more rounds.

Thank you Smarticles for starting this debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Smarticles

Pro

"Vegetarian's get protein from nuts and soy" Vegetarians don't only get protein from nuts and soy. And if its bad to eat soy alot then they could just eat nuts. I'm pretty sure that nuts don't have soy in them. Here is ten reasons why soy is good for you.

1) Soy foods and Diabetes
May slow absorption of glucose into the bloodstream.
May also protect against damaging effects of glucose-induced oxidation, common in people with diabetes.

2) Soy foods and Reduced Cancer Risk
Rich in phytochemicals (plant-chemicals). While not nutrients, may be important for overall health and in particular, for reducing risk of cancer.

3) Soy foods and Osteoporosis
Soy protein helps conserve body calcium better than that of animal protein.
Compounds in soy called isoflavones may simultaneously increase bone formation while decreasing bone breakdown.

4) Soy foods and Heart Disease
Soybeans are extremely low in saturated fat and free of cholesterol.
Consuming 25 grams of soy protein daily has shown to lower blood cholesterol.
Beyond cholesterol reduction, soy foods may favorably affect other risk factors for heart disease (i.e, makes arteries more flexible). Therefore, soy may be helpful for everyone, not just those with high cholesterol.

5) Soy foods and Menopause
May play a role in regulating menopausal symptoms like hot flashes and night sweats.
Asian women, regular consumers of soy, do not experience the unpleasant symptoms of menopause; soy may be the reason.

6) Soy foods and Breast Cancer
Animal studies have found that adding soy to the diet reduces the number of breast tumors by 25 to 50 percent. Therefore, becoming a regular soy consumer early in life may be particularly important.

7) Soy foods Meet Protein Needs
Soy protein is a complete protein. It is equal in quality to animal proteins, such as that found in milk and meat. Soy has been recognized as such in the new USDA food guidelines.

8) Soy foods and Kidney Health
Evidence shows the type of protein in soy foods does not affect the kidneys in the same way animal proteins do. Soy protein does not cause the kidneys to work as hard as they must to break down animal protein. In susceptible individuals, substituting soy protein for animal protein may reduce the risk of developing kidney disease.

9) Soy foods and Prostate Cancer
Studies indicate soy components may delay onset of tumor growth and decrease size of tumors present.
As little as one serving of soy foods a day (ex: one cup soy milk or 1/2 cup tofu) may be enough to reduce the risk of developing prostate cancer.

10) Soy foods as Part of a Healthy Diet
Making soy a part of the diet is one of the best defenses against disease.

Source:http://www.soycooking.com...

Also I know lots of people think that PETA is not true and exaggerates so please go to http://www.slaughterhousecam.com... and watch the videos.
candice

Con

You gave me some counter argument's about soy. Yes, there are different reason's that soy is bad for you in the long run, and also can be in the short term, slightly beneficial. You failed, Smarticles, to say anything about animals dying while crops were harvested. Or, my stating animals can be treated with care and respect intended to be eaten. So you actually didn't say ANYTHING else except for quotes from a website not based on research, but biased because they are SELLING accessories for cooking with soy!

Also, like I previously stated (that you said nothing about whatsoever) was eating food available to you is better than to die of starvation. Would you like to have the native African tribes stop eating meat they have been eating since they're people began? You also said nothing about pesticides. Or anything about ANY arguments I made.

If everyone will notice, I stated that most vegetarians are basing they're biased against eating animal's because of random horror video's they've seen. Exibit A, at the end of Smarticles retort to me. Yes, sometimes animal's get abused. Sometimes, people get abused. This does not mean either one of these are condoned, or endorsed. If your so worried about not eating meat because of this reason, why not fight for the good treatment of animals? If there are obviously companies you feel are not treating they're animals correctly, why not do something about THAT, instead of asking me to stop eating meat. While your at the outback, looking down on me eating my steak, your doing nothing about what your upset about.

So, as I said previously human being's are NOT naturally designed to not eat meat. You, feel bad about the fact that these creature's lives are being taken for nourishment. Is there some kind of preconceived, and false notion you have about the natural life of animals? Perhaps you see a cow, dying peacefully by the fire in a big front room somewhere in the back of your brain? What about those animals which are predators that will otherwise kill, and devour the cow otherwise? Should we go ahead and after ALL humans stop eating meat, make lions vegetarians to? No, you say? Is this perhaps because it is NATURE? Haven't HUMANS eaten meat since we have found the very first traces of our ancestors? So it is NATURAL for us to eat meat?

Every living thing on this earth, will eventually die. Why not use these animal's and prolong they're use in a positive way?
Debate Round No. 2
Smarticles

Pro

Ok then... "but biased because they are SELLING accessories for cooking with soy" That is not the only site there is for why soy is good. There are woman's health sites, like
(gardenandhearth.com/Womens-Health-Beauty/Benefits-of-Soy.htm) and even educational magazine sites like (http://www.usc.edu...).

There is tons of proteins of vegatables. If you go to (http://www.weightlossforall.com...)there is a chart for how much protein there is in vegetables.

"You also said nothing about pesticides" Vegetables get washed before being sold.

PESTICIDES
Common belief: U.S. Department of Agriculture protects our health through meat inspection
Reality: fewer than 1 out of every 250,000 slaughtered animals is tested for toxic chemical residues
Percentage of U.S. mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT: 99
Percentage of U.S. vegetarian mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT: 8
Contamination of breast milk, due to chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides in animal products, found in meat-eating mothers vs. non-meat eating mothers: 35 times higher
Amount of Dieldrin ingested by the average breast-fed American infant: 9 times the permissible level

Many animals get pesticides in them from eating plants. People think that all of the animals get tested when usually only a small amount of them do.

And if you want to know about meat vs. vegetables go to http://www.vegsource.com.... It tells you about why vegetarianism is good. But I'm not saying that only vegetarianism is good. Eating meat can be good too. It just depends on how you feel.

"I stated that most vegetarians are basing they're biased against eating animal's because of random horror video's they've seen. Exibit A, at the end of Smarticles retort to me" Some vegetarians are vegetarians because of the slaughter house videos, yes. But others are because they care about their own health.

CHOLESTEROL

Number of U.S. medical schools: 125
Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30
Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four years in medical school: 2.5 hours
Most common cause of death in the U.S.: heart attack
How frequently a heart attack kills in the U.S.: every 45 seconds
Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50 percent
Risk of average U.S. man who eats no meat: 15 percent
Risk of average U.S. man who eats no meat, dairy or eggs: 4 percent
Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption of meat, dairy and eggs by 10 percent: 9 percent
Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption by 50 percent: 45 percent
Amount you reduce risk if you eliminate meat, dairy and eggs from your diet: 90 percent
Average cholesterol level of people eating meat-centered-diet: 210 mg/dl
Chance of dying from heart disease if you are male and your blood cholesterol level is 210 mg/dl: greater than 50 percent

CANCER

Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat daily compared to less than once a week: 3.8 times
For women who eat eggs daily compared to once a week: 2.8 times
For women who eat butter and cheese 2-4 times a week: 3.25 times
Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times
Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who consume meat, cheese, eggs and milk daily vs. sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times.

AND FINALLY, PESTICIDES

Common belief: U.S. Department of Agriculture protects our health through meat inspection
Reality: fewer than 1 out of every 250,000 slaughtered animals is tested for toxic chemical residues
Percentage of U.S. mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT: 99
Percentage of U.S. vegetarian mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT: 8
Contamination of breast milk, due to chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides in animal products, found in meat-eating mothers vs. non-meat eating mothers: 35 times higher
Amount of Dieldrin ingested by the average breast-fed American infant: 9 times the permissible level

SOURCES FROM: http://www.vegsource.com...

"If there are obviously companies you feel are not treating they're animals correctly, why not do something about THAT, instead of asking me to stop eating meat" Me and my friends are going to find these companies and get big groups of people someday and do alot about it so animals are treated fairly. I already am doing stuff about it. My friends and I all feel that animals should be treated humanely and are thinking about how we can change this.

"While your at the outback, looking down on me eating my steak, your doing nothing about what your upset about." I am not going to look down at any one eating steak or any kind of animal because everyone has the right to eat meat and they can if they want to I am not going to hate them or think they are weird because they eat meat.

"So, as I said previously human being's are NOT naturally designed to not eat meat" They might not be naturally designed to not eat meat but human's aren't designed to not eat vegetables. There is a reason for everything and I don't think there would not be a reason for vegetables to be on Earth.

"So it is NATURAL for us to eat meat?" It is natural for us to eat meat but it is also "natural" for us to eat vegetables and fruit. There is nothing wrong with eating these.

"Every living thing on this earth, will eventually die. Why not use these animal's and prolong they're use in a positive way?

Yes we can use animals in a positive way, but we can do that without doing it inhumanely.
candice

Con

Yes, your correct Smarticles, vegetables ARE washed before they're put on the shelves at your supper market. What I was bringing to your attention, is that the pesticides effect the ANIMALS in a negative way, that live around the veggie patch. You said: <> So, you realize that pesticides on vegetables are effecting animals. Is this ecceptable to you? So basically, your argument is now not against treating animals with respect, and keep them healthy and alive, it's now a health issue for humans? There has been no solid facts that vegetarian's are healthier, and they DO NOT live longer than they're meat eating counter parts. AKA, everyone else that eats' what are body's naturaly need. The fat's and proteins in animals have already been refined, broken down, and are healthier for us to use for nourishment for ourselves.

<>

Good for you! Thinking about way's to better our world is wonderful! You have again NEGLECTED to address my saying that animals intended to be eaten CAN, and usually DO get treated with respect. Perhaps, you should write these companies, and do research to endorse the companies that have proven to use tactics that make you feel comfortable. Inform people who eat meat, which treat they're animals according to the law's, and practices America wants they're companies to abide by. So that we can all support the well being of animals. This, does not mean that we should all stop eating meat though.

<>

Yes, Smarticles there are, indeed a use for vegetables. For us to eat them. Just because you eat meat, doesn't mean you can't eat every tasty veggie under the sun! Which proves another point, why are all these animals on earth? Don't you think they have a little bit to do with being food? Come on, they're for more than being pets.<< "So it is NATURAL for us to eat meat?" It is natural for us to eat meat but it is also "natural" for us to eat vegetables and fruit. There is nothing wrong with eating these. >> Again, I never stated we shouldn't eat vegetables, Smarticles.

<

My point exactly Smarticles. In every round I have said this. So this helps your case in what way?

I have stated that animals can, and DO get treated with respect and care, intended to be eaten. Expecting EVERYONE on earth to be a vegetarian is ridiculous. If you have issue's with something going on, try and fix it! If you think the way that yarn is made is horrible, don't try and get everyone to stop wearing sweaters, fix the way the yarn is made. Okay, strange example, but hopefully you get my point.

Nobody should feel bad eating meat. It's healthy for you, and mostly animals are treated well. It would be very cost, and time inefficient to sit around torturing animals all day. Don't be lead to believe that every, or ever most companies do this.
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Lydia_Rose 7 years ago
Lydia_Rose
"Human's are not intended to be vegetarians."
This isn't necessarily true. Humans tend to have more similarities with herbivores than with carnivores. (http://www.celestialhealing.net...) if you navigate through the website, there are other facts on vegetarians and meat eaters. I am a vegetarian and in my opinion, i like it. I've been one for almost a year and after i quit meat, i felt cleaner and renewed. Plus, neither diet is perfect. Just as meat is bad for you in the long term and possibly in short term, it can be the same for soy products. if some people want to be vegetarians, okay. If they want to eat meat, then okay with that too. It's your body, you decide what you want to put in it!
Posted by HellKat 8 years ago
HellKat
Do you mean everybody?

If so, as they say, everything in moderation. If more people were vegetarian that would be good for the environment, but also, if everybody only ate the amount of meat that is recomended in the food guide that too would be good for the environment. The reason farming is so bad for the environment is because we eat meat as not only a meal, but also a snack, causing higher demand for meat and land to breed and raise cattle. Same goes for fish.

If everybody simply stopped eating meat, well, that would not have the consequences one may think it would. When a predator like the human race is removed from the food chain all of the species it once ate begin to grow in numbers, especially in areas where humans are the only species to prey on that animal. When that happens, and the predator is removed, no longer in the equation to balance things out, the results are that the population of that species becomes out of control. So really, humans eating meat, in moderation of course, is not really all that bad of a thing.

And if everybody ate only vegetables they would need to eat more vegetables, crop demand would go up, and when that happens more land is needed, so really, we'd just be in the same boat anyways.
Posted by JAEHYUK 8 years ago
JAEHYUK
Everybody would agree that becoming a vegetarian is an environmentally friendly thing to do. Modern farming is one of the main sources of pollution in our rivers. Beef farming is one of the main causes of deforestation, and as long as people continue to buy fast food in their billions, there will be a financial incentive to continue cutting down trees to make room for cattle. Because of our desire to eat fish, our rivers and seas are being emptied of fish and many species are facing extinction. Energy resources are used up much more greedily by meat farming than my farming cereals, pulses etc. Eating meat and fish not only causes cruelty to animals, it causes serious harm to the environment and to biodiversity.
Posted by HellKat 9 years ago
HellKat
If you eat it properly meat is "anything but toxic to the body"

In fact, on an episode of wife swap they featured a family who ate only raw meat that they raised themselves and some dairy, they may have eaten some vegetables I'm not sure, but anyways, they were prefectly healthy, and as far as i knew never got sick.
Posted by dweyand07 9 years ago
dweyand07
I don't get people who are Veggiehead.

We need meat in our body too. But, most of all, we need plants and nature to be able to have stable enviroment.

I would rather eat meats than plants because I would need plants to be able to have better oxygen to breathe.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
Ethiopians are NOT germane to the conversation

Rich affluent Americans are the subject at hand- not folks who NEED meat to survive and live a hearty life of hunting and gathering

America is FAT, DISEASED and HURTING becuase of the SAD- Standard American Diet, which is based on MEAT, SUGAR , and SALT

Deny it all you want, facts are facts

OBESITY, HEART DISEASE, COLON CANCER, and most other dreaded diseases are all based on the rotting flesh diet-

It has been PROVEN in STONE

listen to all the health adds- they all have to say "along with a diet rich in fruits and vegetables and expercise"

I am not going to tell you what to eat, but to argue that eating meat is anything but toxic to the body is silly

SOLARMAN
Posted by candice 9 years ago
candice
Yes... starving Ethiopians shouldn't eat meat because of BAD KHARMA! Wow... laughable...
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
eating meat is the main cause of the digestive problems in America

eating meat is the SOLE cause of colon cancer, and so it evertually KILLS prematurely

eating meat uses 10 times the resources as the vegatables (water, crops, land, fuel)

eating meat brings KARMA implications that most dont understand because they are insulated from the effects-

and besides

there are only about 8 types of meat and are THOUSANDS of different plants, legumes and other plant based things to eat

so meat is BORING anyway

SOLARMAN
Posted by candice 9 years ago
candice
So, Solarman thinks that eating meat is death... even though it keeps people alive... and the animals will die anyway... Hmmm... intersting...
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
the debate is OVER

Vegatarianism is the WAY OF LIFE

Eating animals is DEATH

read Dr Anderson

www.ariseandshine.net

peace!

SOLARMAN
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