The Instigator
Pro (for)
0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

Verse 71

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/12/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,180 times Debate No: 23569
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)




What would be best would be to know

without knowing you know,

or not to know

without knowing that you do not know.

It's that second layer that kills you.

The healthy are just the folks

who don't yet know they're sick.

Con makes arguments in R1

And is silent in R3

For the sake of balance.


"What would be best would be to know

without knowing you know,

or not to know

without knowing that you do not know."

I oppose, it would be better not to know, but knowing that you do not know. Ignorance must be flaunted not concealed. It is the way minds expand. The only difference between a Wise man and a Fool is that the Wise man knows he is a fool. Pro suggests deluding ourselves into believing that we know, and hiding our lack of knowing. I encourage it, it is the only path to truth.

Night Heron Revealed
By a Rising Harvest Moon
Which, is lovelier?
Debate Round No. 1


Not knowing that we do not know, is not the delusion that we do know.

Not knowing that we do know, is not the delusion that we do not know.

Removing the second layer is not replacing the second layer.

What would be best would be to experience life without experiencing experience;

Knowing about yourself ceasing to oppose knowing yourself,

Observing the moments of life ceasing to oppose living the moments of life,

The striving for meaning ceasing to oppose the striving of living.

Know others by knowing yourself.
Overcome others by overcoming yourself.
Understanding what is enough is enough.
Presence is perseverance.
Coming to stillness is forging ahead.
Find life by accepting death.


Through zeal, knowledge is gotten;
through lack of zeal, knowledge is lost;
let a man who knows the double path of gain and loss thus place himself that knowledge may grow.

You choose to extinguish the hunger for knoweldge
You chose to douse the thirst for growth

Knowing is the lie, not knowing is the truth, not knowing of your absence of knowing is the delusion

Before I depart
for a bewildering world
I'm already lost
Debate Round No. 2


The issue is of awareness; knowledge of our knowledge.
We may laud the zealous sage,
We may incite his hunger for knowledge,
We may magnify his thirst for growth,
But we must not mistake knowledge for awareness,
For awareness is the name of knowledge on the second level.
This is the matter we contemplate.
The value of knowledge is not.
That is the first level.
It would be best to simply know or not know.
To know that we know, to know that we do not know,
This is the second level, the level that kills.
In this level, we know we are dying.
It is the question of how quickly.
The only healthy are those who don't realize they are sick.
The awareness of dying complicates living.
Burdened with our own death we are disquieted,
Our zeal is diminished.
It would be better to set down that burden,
And embrace the zeal unreservedly.

I thank Con for his participation, and the voters for reading.
Per the OP, Con's R3 will be blank as we have both had 2 attempts to affirm or negate Verse 71.


Let my silence be as loud as the howling wind
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by 16kadams 6 years ago
Posted by XimenBao 6 years ago
It makes me happy that Travniki rolled with this one.
Posted by Oryus 6 years ago
Posted by bossyburrito 6 years ago
Posted by XimenBao 6 years ago
Surely THEBOMB, the debate that can be spoken is not the debate.

Posted by Oryus 6 years ago
Interesting... this seems difficult though..? Requires a very astute interpretation... which could lead to many problems :) like that v
Posted by THEBOMB 6 years ago
what's the debate?!?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 1dustpelt 6 years ago
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Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: wtf