The Instigator
SoutherngentFL
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points
The Contender
TheBostonMassacre
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points

Voting Racism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/23/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,495 times Debate No: 4778
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (17)
Votes (8)

 

SoutherngentFL

Con

As I watch the drive-by media cover the current Presidential race, I continue to hear that "Blacks are excited about voting for Obama because he's black".

In my mind, it is just as bigoted to vote for a person because of his race as it is to vote against that person because of his race.
TheBostonMassacre

Pro

To act like Obama's race has nothing to do with this election is just plain naive. Now im by no means advocating that someone's skin color is more important than their stances on the issues and merits in becoming president. Im also not saying that you should necessarily stand at the voting booth thinking about the color of the candidates' skin. But Barack Obama's ethnicity makes this election historic and has an effect on America's world stading. Almost every country with signifigant diversity has had leaders of many diverse backgrounds. But not the US. We're about 15% African American, 30% Hispanic and 10% Asian. Despite that, the biggest "shake up" weve ever had president wise was a 40 year old catholic in the 60's. If Barack Obama isnt elected, America looks like a racist country to the world.

http://youtube.com...

America looks like that when we elect another old white protestant. So I agree that basing your vote on race is wrong, but to expect the media to ignore it and act like its not an issue in this election is ridiculous
Debate Round No. 1
SoutherngentFL

Con

>To act like Obama's race has nothing to do with this election is just plain naive.
I would agree with this statement. The contention comes from voting FOR(and conversely AGAINST ) a person BECAUSE of their race. I would rather see an exchange of ideas and their expected results than using race as an advantage or detriment. Having said that, I return to my proposition that doing either is an exersize in bigotry.

>Im also not saying that you should necessarily stand at the voting booth thinking about the color of the candidates' skin.
Then we agree. Am I proud that a Black man can run for office and concievably win? Absolutely. But win or lose on his merits, not his race.

I remember 1970 in Tampa Florida being bussed to an inner-city school. The parents weren't happy, but we were 12 year olds and becoming very social oriented. What we learned was what should've been known: people are people based on their merits. We were (are) the generation that repudiated the old traditions (especially here in the south east)of racism. That's why we taught or children that "nigger" and "cracker" aren't words a polite person would say. We think, and taught our children that race isn't supposed to be an issue; then lived our lives by that rule. Bottom Line: voting according to race is, well: racism.

>If Barack Obama isnt elected, America looks like a racist country to the world.

The rest of the world castigates us anyway. Their opinion are more of a social concern than a political liability. Otherwise, they're guilty of bigotry.
TheBostonMassacre

Pro

Well when i picked up this debate, i noticed your opening statement was chastising the media for discussing how black people would be excited to vote for obama. Im merely disagreeing with the fact that your so opposed to that. Nobody's advocating voting for someone cause theyre black or white, im only advocating acknowledgment of how a perosn represents your nation as a part of the decision making process of voting. Each individual needs to ask themselves how someone represents their nation on a grand scale. Having a black guy who is smart, articulate and friendly to diplomacy changes the face of our nation in contrast to the last 8 years. Getting another white guy makes a different effect. Race does matter in this and is something to consider when voting and when covering (media wise).
Debate Round No. 2
SoutherngentFL

Con

>i noticed your opening statement was chastising the media for discussing how black people would be excited to vote for obama. Im merely disagreeing with the fact that your so opposed to that.
> Race does matter in this and is something to consider when voting and when covering (media wise).

I don't understand. We just agreed that voting for someone based on their race is an exersise in bigotry. Are you now proposing that a small amount of bigotry is acceptable?
There is no doubt that this election is historical because of Obamas' race. It's just as historical as Geraldine Ferraros' nomination for Vice President back in the 1980's. On this we disagree.
But again, the proposition is to vote for a person because of their ethnic backsground is just as racist as refusing to vote for a person because of that ethnicity.

Personally, I think the pride of the nation is anyone can run for any office, and win, in America, their ethnicity not becoming a factor. That will be the true social victory. We almost had that in this election until the current nominee said "their going to make you afraid of me,. . . did I mention he was black?"
Because our nation has decided, and taught our children that race isn't an issue if you're intelligent, that what makes a person viable for your friendship, is "the content of his character". This is the dream of the great American Martin Luther King.

>Having a black guy who is smart, articulate and friendly to diplomacy changes the face of our nation in contrast to the last 8 years. Getting another white guy makes a different effect. Race does matter in this

Again, I would rather have someone articulate a different view on national policy, but to claim because a "black guy" (your verbiage, not mine) makes it more impressive, illustrates the proosition. It's racist, it's bigotry, it's wrong.
I don't deny this is the situation, but the exersize of considering race while in the voting booth is, as we've already agreed: morally wrong. it's apartheid.
TheBostonMassacre

Pro

TheBostonMassacre forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
SoutherngentFL

Con

As I read Robert Novaks article today, he said: "Clearly, Obama has not yet convinced the people to accept a young, inexperienced African American as their president. Obama had virtually clinched the nomination when white working men in Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia poured out to vote and comfortably delivered their states to Hillary Clinton. This was not because of unalterable affection for her.

Obama's difficulty in reaching the 50 percent mark reflects an overwhelmingly white undecided vote of 10 to 15 percent."

While I aquiese there's truth to this statement, I detest the fact that race is an issue; pro or con.
TheBostonMassacre

Pro

TheBostonMassacre forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
SoutherngentFL

Con

As Dr. King stated, a man should be judge by his character, not the color of his skin. This involves the jug=dgement one makes when one enters the voting booth. When a person votes for (or against) a person based on ethnicity, it reals the bigotry in their own soul.

Those who say they want to give a person a "break", or they want to see a different ethnicity in a political office denigrates that ethnicity by saying their race is reason in itself to vote for that person. Are there any inferior races? If so, then out of humanity give that race a grade curve. If one race is as good, or intellient, or honorable as another: then don't demean the person by patrinizing them with some kind of pity-vote.

If a person votes against a person based on ethnicity, they demean themself, and illustrate to the world that they are an ignoramous who can't get past appearance.

Vote; but vote intelligently. Vote on facts, beliefs, convictions; but never vote based on a persons race. It's the difference between being a Dr. King or an Archie Bunker or George Jefferson.
TheBostonMassacre

Pro

TheBostonMassacre forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by SoutherngentFL 9 years ago
SoutherngentFL
Wow, all I can say is. Good for you. I do know black people, but I don't think of them as "black people". Those who's race stick out in my mind are the ones who have bought the "government owes me" syndrome.

Those who don't are just my friends. Seems that you probably don't know any white people, except those who walk around in guilt- no thanks. I didn't do anything to feel guilty about.

I wish you well, my friend.
Posted by stand4something 9 years ago
stand4something
You've convinced me that you dont know any black people....lol...so you work with poor disadvantaged black people that I'm sure you think your better than...after all it was them and their parents that choose to think the government owes them something hence living together in their clustered socio-economic hood. You actually blamed Sharpton and Jesse Jackson for racial devison and epidemic black poverty.....CLASSIC.....your a twit. I dont mean to insult you but damn....you sure do insult me with your ignorance....this is why i dont mess with the south.
Posted by SoutherngentFL 9 years ago
SoutherngentFL
To the contrary. I think we have brokn many barriers. When I was a child, the onlt time you saw a black person in the neighborhood was on trash day. Living in a working class neighborhood, it wasn't the income that separated us, it was the racial divide.
As for the amount of interaction I've had with "blacks"; I can tell you that I've worked inner-city ministries since 1983. Working with families through a Sunday School program, teaching parents to read, and now I work at a rescue mission, rehabilitation facility where roughly 70% of those who come through are black. I remind these men and women that God "looks on the heart of man" so if someone else uses another criteria (I usually pinch my white skin when I say this) they think they're better than God. This is exactly what Dr King was talking about in his great speech saying the content of a mans character is what counts, not the color of his skin.
No, I have no guilt over racism, I wonder if Obama could say the same. When I hear his Pastor, I seriously doubt that he can.
My generation, while not perfect, embodies the example that people who think, can change the challenges of this great nation. All from the "South" too!

I think public schools are still polarized by race because there is an element (Jackson, Sharpton, et. al) who've convinced people that they can be poor and the government owes them something. These people live together social-economically and therefore their kids attend school together.
You've not offened me, but you've not convinced me that their aren't racist who will vote for Obama just because he's black. And that's just wrong.
Posted by stand4something 9 years ago
stand4something
Ohhh southern agent.....your generation hasnt broken many color barriers other than removing the guilt from maintstream american identity. Their is a reason why the public school system is roughly as segragated as its ever been, black communities are similarly depressed as they were in the generation prior to you. I doubt you know very much about Dr. King and what he stood for because all we have today is a Micky Mouse characteracher of him. Dr. King was unapoligitically against our militaristic government, and called for a revolution of thought that to date, certainly was never realized....and probably never even revealed to you and most of "your generation". If a man is still judged on his merrit than why are things still so trendously unequal in our criminal justice and educational systems? Why does the united states government unequivicably still see a white life as more valuable than a black life in the areas where it is asked to make that determination.

Also, I didnt mean to offend you by asking you to ask a black person if you have the chance. I genuinly dont think you have much experience with people that think or look much differently than yourself based on the things your saying.
Posted by SoutherngentFL 9 years ago
SoutherngentFL
Bostonmassacre, Hope your grandmother is better. Best wishes.
Posted by TheBostonMassacre 9 years ago
TheBostonMassacre
BTW, my beliefs on my profile were backwards, i hit "against" when i meant "in favor" for alot of them. fixed now, Im certainly not against abortion, but in favor of late term. lol
Posted by TheBostonMassacre 9 years ago
TheBostonMassacre
Im very sorry, my grandmother got ill and i had to fly down to Florida to see her. I didnt have much access to a computer while there. Please vote for my opponent.
Posted by SoutherngentFL 9 years ago
SoutherngentFL
EXAMPLES OF WHY RACISM IN ELECTIONS DETRACTS FROM THE ISSUES

From the AP wire: 'Is race a factor in this election? Of course it is,' said Maurice Wilson, who serves as vice president of the Urban League chapter in San Diego.
That's simply stating the obvious, said several black voters at the Orlando convention.

At another convention in Florida: One McCain supporter, Daniel Hirsh, sported a shirt with a homemade print that implored ``Don't Let the USA become an Obama-Nation.'
He said he opposed the Democrat for one major reason: ``He's a racist. Just recently, in his last speech, he played the race card.'
Posted by Im_always_right 9 years ago
Im_always_right
I know this is WAY off topic, but there is nowhere else to ask this and point out funny fact:

TheBostonMassacre (Pro) is in favor of late term abortion, but against abortion....

TheBostonMassacre (again pro) proves my theory about being against th US, and for Bush....my theory is "One can only be in favor of one...."

Sorry, again way off topic, I wish they would have a place on peoples profiles, so you can post comments like that....
Posted by SoutherngentFL 9 years ago
SoutherngentFL
Indeed I have asked more than several. Some came out and enunciated they were proud to vote for Obama because it's "about time we got a black man in". That was the motivating factor for my initiating the debate.
What I find interesting is you statement "if I know or come into contact with any black people".

That's as offensive as me saying to you to ask white people if they're voting for McCain because he's white: if you even know or see any white people.

Mine is the generation that's puposefully broken the racial barriers we saw in society as children. We're the first generation to teach our children that Dr. King was right when he said not to judge a man by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character- and we've lived the priciple personally. Let me ask you: do you not agree that it's wrong to vote for or against a person because of that persons race? The premise is simple, secinct, and reasonable.
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Vote Placed by stand4something 9 years ago
stand4something
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