The Instigator
bcresmer
Pro (for)
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The Contender
DevonNetzley
Con (against)
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WWII weapon debates

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/25/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,296 times Debate No: 20640
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
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bcresmer

Pro

This debate is about WWII weapons.
You must choose a pistol, rifle, submachine gun, LMG, and gernade.

I choose the Luger pistol, the M1A1 carbine, the PPsH-41, the MG-42 aka The Meat Chopper, and the Sticky Gernade.

Good Luck Con!
DevonNetzley

Con

Yay! This is gonna be a good one. ^.=.^

My choices are the following below.
M92 automatic. Pistol.
Gewehr 43. Rifle.
Beretta Model 38. Submachine gun.
M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle. LMG.
White Phosphorus Grenade. Grenade.

Good luck Pro.
Debate Round No. 1
bcresmer

Pro

The Pistole Parabellum 1908 or Parabellum-Pistole (Pistol Parabellum), popularly known as the Luger, is a toggle-locked recoil-operated semi-automatic pistol. The Luger, in later years, was also made into a full-auto pistol. It fires a 9x19mm Parabellum round, with a 8 round clip or a 32 round drum mag.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

The M1 carbine is a lightweight, easy to use semi-automatic carbine that became a standard firearm for the U.S. military during World War II, the Korean War and the Vietnam War, and was produced in several variants. It was widely used by U.S. and foreign military, paramilitary and police forces, and has also been a popular civilian firearm. It fires a .30 Carbine round and has a 15 or 30 round mag. It was also made in select-fire mode, with means it is also capable of full-auto fire
http://en.wikipedia.org...

The PPSh-41 was a Soviet submachine gun designed by Georgi Shpagin as an inexpensive, simplified alternative to the PPD-40. Intended for use by minimally-trained conscript soldiers, the PPSh was a magazine-fed selective-fire submachine gun using an open-bolt, blowback action. Made largely of stamped steel, it had either a 35 round box or a 71 round drum magazine, and fired the 7.62�25mm pistol round.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

The MG 42 is an universal machine gun that was developed in Nazi Germany, and supplemented and sometimes replaced the MG 34 general-purpose machine gun in all branches of the German Armed Forces, though both weapons were manufactured and used until the end of the war. The MG 42 has a proven record of reliability, durability, simplicity, and ease of operation, but is most notable for its ability to produce a stunning volume of suppressive fire. The MG 42 has one of the highest average rates of fire of any single-barreled man-portable machine gun: between 1,200 and 1,500 rpm, which results in a distinctive muzzle report. The MG42 fires a 8x57mm IS round.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

I was unable to get info on the sticky grenade because my school blocked the site, so I wont be able to source it.
The Sticky Grenade was usually just a hand grenade or mine with tar or grease on it to make it stick. Manly used by the British in Africa, they were used primarily as anti-vehicle devices.

Good luck Con
DevonNetzley

Con

Thanks man i will take this luck on with me.
But to start i think i named my pistol the wrong name in the acceptance. Its the Beretta M92, sorry. My memory was oh so fuzzy on it, shoulda check if i was right first. But better now than later in r4.

The Beretta M9, formally Pistol, Semiautomatic, 9mm, M9, is a 9�—19mm Parabellum pistol of the United States military adopted in 1985. It is essentially a military specification Beretta 92F, later the 92FS. The M9 won a competition in the 1980s to replace the M1911A1 as the primary handgun of the U.S. military, beating out many other contenders, and only narrowly defeating the SIG P226 for cost reasons. It officially entered service in 1990. Some other models have been adopted to a lesser extent, namely the M11 pistol, and other models remain in use in certain niches.The M9 was scheduled to be replaced under a United States Army program, the Future Handgun System (FHS), which was merged with the SOF Combat Pistol program to create the Joint Combat Pistol (JCP). In early 2006, the JCP was renamed Combat Pistol (CP), and the number of pistols to be bought was drastically cut back. The joint U.S. Army/Air Force Modular Handgun System could select a commercial off-the-shelf handgun to replace the M9 pistol in Fiscal Year 2011�€"12 if budget funds allows the implementation of the study.
Statistics.
Weight 952 g (33.6 oz)
1,162 g (41.0 oz) loaded
Length 217 mm (8.5 in)
Barrel length 125 mm (4.9 in)
Cartridge 9x19mm Parabellum
Action Short recoil
Muzzle velocity 381 m/s (1,250 ft/s)
Effective range 50 m
Feed system 15 round detachable box magazine
Sights Iron sights

The Gewehr 43 or Karabiner 43 (G43, K43, Gew 43, Kar 43) is an 8x57mm IS caliber semi-automatic rifle developed by Nazi Germany during World War II. It was a modification of the G41(W) using an improved gas system similar to that of the Soviet Tokarev SVT40.
Statistics.
Weight 4.1 kg (9.7 lb)
Length 1130 mm
Barrel length 546 mm (21.5 inches)
Cartridge 8x57mm IS
Action Gas-operated
Muzzle velocity 775 m/s (2,328 ft/s)
Effective range 500 m, 800 m with scope
Feed system 10-round detachable box magazine
Sights iron sights, Zf42 optical crosshair sight

The MAB 38 (Moschetto Automatico Beretta Modello 1938), Modello 38, or Model 38 and its variants were the official submachine guns of the Royal Italian Army introduced in 1938, and used during World War II. The guns were also used by German, Romanian, and Argentine armies of the period.
Statistics.
Weight MAB 38A: 4.2 kg (empty)
MAB 38/42: 3.27 kg (empty)
MAB 38/49: 3.25 kg (empty)
Length MAB 38A: 946mm
MAB 38/42: 800mm
MAB 38/49: 798mm
Barrel length MAB 38A: 315mm
MAB 38/42: 213mm
MAB 38/49: 210mm
Cartridge 9�19mm Parabellum / Cartuccia Modello 38
Caliber 9mm
Action Blowback
Rate of fire 600 rpm
Muzzle velocity 429 m/s (1,407.12 ft/s) (9�19mm Parabellum)
Effective range 250 m
Feed system 10, 20, 30, or 40-Round Detachable Box Magazine

The Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) was a family of United States automatic rifles (or machine rifles) and light machine guns used by the United States and numerous other countries during the 20th century. The primary variant of the BAR series was the M1918, chambered for the .30-06 Springfield rifle cartridge and designed by John Browning in 1917 for the U.S. Expeditionary Corps in Europe as a replacement for the French-made Chauchat and M1909 Benet-Mercie machine guns.The BAR was designed to be carried by advancing infantrymen, slung over the shoulder and fired from the hip, a concept called "walking fire"—thought to be necessary for the individual soldier during trench warfare. However in practice, it was most often used as a light machine gun and fired from a bipod (introduced in later models. A variant of the original M1918 BAR, the Colt Monitor Machine Rifle, remains the lightest production automatic gun to fire the .30-06 Springfield cartridge, though the limited capacity of its standard 20-round magazine tended to hamper its utility in that role.
Statistics.
Weight 7.25 kg (15.98 lb) (M1918)
Approx. 11 kg (24 lb) (M1922)
6.0 kg (13 lb) (Colt Monitor)
8.4 kg (19 lb) (M1918A1)
8.8 kg (19 lb) (M1918A2)
9.0 kg (20 lb) (wz. 1928)
Length 1,194 mm (47.0 in) (M1918, M1922, M1918A1)
1,215 mm (47.8 in) (M1918A2)
1,110 mm (43.7 in) (wz. 1928)
Barrel length 610 mm (24.0 in) (M1918, M1922, M1918A1, M1918A2)
611 mm (24.1 in) (wz. 1928)
458 mm (18.0 in) (Colt Monitor)
Cartridge .30-06 Springfield (7.62x63mm)/.303 British (7.7x56mmR)/7x57mm Mauser
(M1918, M1922, M1918A1, M1918A2)
7.92x57mm Mauser (wz. 1928)
6.5x55mm (Kg m/21, m/37)
Action Gas-operated, tilting breech block
Rate of fire 500–650 rounds/min (M1918, M1922, M1918A1)
500 rounds/min (Colt Monitor)
300-450 or 500-650 rounds/min (M1918A2)
600 rounds/min (wz. 1928)
Muzzle velocity 860 m/s (2,822 ft/s) (M1918, M1922, M1918A1, M1918A2)
853 m/s (2,798.6 ft/s) (wz. 1928)
Effective range 100–1,500 yd sight adjustments (maximum effective range)
Maximum range Approx. 4,500-5,000 yd
Feed system 20-round detachable box magazine
Sights Rear leaf, front post
784 mm (30.9 in) sight radius (M1918, M1922, M1918A1)
782 mm (30.8 in) (M1918A2)
742 mm (29.2 in) (wz. 1928)

The No. 77 Grenade was a British white phosphorus grenade used during the Second World War. The No. 77 was introduced in 1943 and consisted of 8 ounces of white phosphorus, an impact fuse and a tin casing. It was intended for laying down smoke screens and as a signalling device. The grenade was also very effective as an anti-personnel and incendiary weapon.Once the grenade exploded, the contents (i.e. the white phosphorus) would scatter and ignite as soon as they touched the air. This made the grenade extremely dangerous — hence its usefulness in combat.
When the war had ended, many of the grenades had become dangerous, due to corroding of the inferior tin plate steel used in the manufacture of the grenade bodies. In 1948 the grenade was determined to be obsolete and all were destroyed to minimize the danger they could have caused.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Thats my opening argument, i now leave for Pro to make his response.
Good luck.
Debate Round No. 2
bcresmer

Pro

The Beretta M9, formally Pistol, Semiautomatic, 9mm, M9, is a 9�—19mm Parabellum pistol of the United States military adopted in 1985. It is essentially a military specification Beretta 92F, later the 92FS. The M9 won a competition in the 1980s to replace the M1911A1 as the primary handgun of the U.S. military, beating out many other contenders, and only narrowly defeating the SIG P226 for cost reasons. It officially entered service in 1990

Um, this is WWII weapons. Unfortuneilty, your pistol is not from World War II. Since this is the case, pistols are no longer involved.

M1A1 Carbine
Weight 5.2 lb (2.4 kg) empty
Length 35.6 in (900 mm)
Barrel length 18 in (460 mm)
Cartridge .30 Carbine
Action Gas-operated, rotating bolt
Rate of fire Semi-automatic (M1/A1)
850–900 rounds/min (M2/M3)
Muzzle velocity 1,990 ft/s (607 m/s)
Feed system 15 or 30-round detachable box magazine
Sights Aperture L-type flip or adjustable rear sights, barleycorn-type front sight
As you can see, it has a bigger ammo capacity, bigger round, and a higher muzzle velocity.

PPsH-41
Weight 3.63 kg (8.0 lb) (without magazine)
Length 843 mm (33.2 in)
Barrel length 269 mm (10.6 in)
Cartridge 7.62�25mm Tokarev
Action Blowback, open bolt
Rate of fire 900 rounds/min
Muzzle velocity 488 m/s (1,600.6 ft/s)
Effective range 150 m
Feed system 35-round box magazine or 71-round drum magazine
Sights Iron sights

The PPsH-41 is lighter, shorter, and has a way higher rate of fire. It was so good that the Germans used capured PPsH's.

MG 42
Weight 11.57 kg (25.51 lb)
Length 1,120 mm (44 in)
Barrel length 533 mm (21.0 in)
Cartridge 8x57mm IS
Action Recoil-operated, roller-locked
Rate of fire 1,200 rounds/min (varied between 900–1,500 rounds/min with different bolts)
Muzzle velocity 755 m/s (2,477 ft/s)
Effective range 1000 m
Feed system 50 or 250-round belt

This MG was feared by the Allies. The Army made films for Allied troops to deal with the fear of facing the "Meat Chopper".

I say we drop the gernades as well seeing as I cant look up info on them.
DevonNetzley

Con

Yeah man we can drop grenades, but i really would rather not. And about the pistol thing sorry dude, can't believe i thought it was ww2 era. Anywhoo.

In your argument against my Gewehr 43, your M1A1 Carbine. You Don't list it's effective range. Where as mine is 500 m. 800 m with scope attached. You also explain the M1's Muzzle velocity, 1,990 ft/s (607 m/s). This is great for it's own design, but is beat by my Gewehr 43, 775 m/s (2,328 ft/s). Thats at least a 168 m/s difference, a 338 ft/s difference. These two play major roles in war, meaning the difference between life and death by how much faster, and farther your firearm can strike.

Now in your second response, your PPsH-41 against my MAB 38 submachine gun. In almost every way your weapon does look more effective than my choice. But you have not matched them stat for stat. I saw that your weapons effective range is 150m. While mine is 250m. This is nearly twice your range. And if i am not correct as the PPsH-41 Is fired over time it becomes very inacurate when over used or fired continuously. Making it a very inaccurate weapon.

Now in your final response on your lmg choice, the MG 42 versus my BAR. I have notice a few differences in the two. First to trump is weight issue. Your MG weighs at 11.57 kg (25.51 lb), my choice weighs about 7.25 kg (15.98 lb). Making it a lighter weapon more manuverable choice. The next thing was the Muzzle velocity. Your MG 42 fired about 755 m/s (2,477 ft/s), mine however was 860 m/s (2,822 ft/s). This is another example of faster takedowns upon the enemy. Now in the final stat that i matched up was the effective range. Your MG 42 range measured in at 1000m, where mine was 4500-5000yd 4128-4587m. This is makes for a much great killing distance than your selection.

I now leave it to my opponent to make his responses.
Good luck man! ^.=.^
Debate Round No. 3
bcresmer

Pro

Britain developed the No 74 ST Grenade, popularly known as a sticky bomb, in which the main charge was held in a sphere covered in adhesive. In anticipation of a German invasion, the British Army asked for ideas for a simple, easy to use, ready for production and cheap close-in antitank weapon. The ST Grenade was a government sponsored initiative, by MIR(c), a group tasked with developing weapons for use in German and Italian occupied territory, and they placed the ST Grenade into mass production at Churchill's insistence, but seeing how it was operated, the British Army rejected it for the Home Guard much less their regular forces. The No 74 Grenade was later issued to troops as an emergency stop-gap measure against Italian tanks in North Africa, where it proved�€"to the surprise of many�€"highly effective. Later in the war, French partisans used the No 74 effectively in sabotage work against German installations.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

In your argument against my Gewehr 43, your M1A1 Carbine. You Don't list it's effective range. Where as mine is 500 m. 800 m with scope attached. You also explain the M1's Muzzle velocity, 1,990 ft/s (607 m/s). This is great for it's own design, but is beat by my Gewehr 43, 775 m/s (2,328 ft/s). Thats at least a 168 m/s difference, a 338 ft/s difference. These two play major roles in war, meaning the difference between life and death by how much faster, and farther your firearm can strike.

Just because you can shoot faster doesnt mean you have will hit the target. As you know from your history lessons, The US M1 Garrand and M1A1 Carbine were the most heavyly used weapons of WWII. The Gewehr 43 was interduced to late to do any real fighting.

Now in your second response, your PPsH-41 against my MAB 38 submachine gun. In almost every way your weapon does look more effective than my choice. But you have not matched them stat for stat. I saw that your weapons effective range is 150m. While mine is 250m. This is nearly twice your range. And if i am not correct as the PPsH-41 Is fired over time it becomes very inacurate when over used or fired continuously. Making it a very inaccurate weapon.

This is where training comes in. The Russians were trained to fire in smalll bursts to 1 not waste ammo and 2 to remain accurte. Also, it was used in urban combat, which took place in the PPsH 41's range. It was also cheap to make. The impetus for the development of the PPSh came partly from the Winter War against Finland, where it was found that submachine guns were a highly effective tool for close-quarter fighting in forests or built-up urban areas. The weapon was developed in mid-1941 and was produced in a network of factories in Moscow, with high-level local Party members made directly responsible for production targets being met.

A few hundred weapons were produced in November 1941 and another 155,000 were produced over the next five months. By spring 1942, the PPSh factories were producing roughly 3,000 units a day. The PPSh-41 was a classic example of a design adapted for mass production (other examples of such wartime design were the M3 submachine gun, MP40 and the Sten). Its parts (excluding the barrel) could be produced by a relatively unskilled workforce with simple equipment available in an auto repair garage or tin shop, freeing up more skilled workers for other tasks. The PPSh-41 used 87 components compared to 95 for the PPD-40 and the PPSh could be manufactured with 7.3 machining hours compared with 13.7 hours for the PPD. Barrel production was simplified by using barrels produced for the 7.62mm M1891 Mosin-Nagant rifle: the rifle barrel was cut in half, and two PPSh barrels were made from it after machining the chamber for the 7.62mm Soviet submachine gun cartridge.

Now in your final response on your lmg choice, the MG 42 versus my BAR. I have notice a few differences in the two. First to trump is weight issue. Your MG weighs at 11.57 kg (25.51 lb), my choice weighs about 7.25 kg (15.98 lb). Making it a lighter weapon more manuverable choice. The next thing was the Muzzle velocity. Your MG 42 fired about 755 m/s (2,477 ft/s), mine however was 860 m/s (2,822 ft/s). This is another example of faster takedowns upon the enemy. Now in the final stat that i matched up was the effective range. Your MG 42 range measured in at 1000m, where mine was 4500-5000yd 4128-4587m. This is makes for a much great killing distance than your selection.

Ok, you have me beat at the distance, but it doesnt mean anything when you only have 20 rounds before you have to reload. trust me, I've fired both weapons. The BAR is a bitch to pick up, pull the clip out, put a new one in, and line back up to the target in a short amount of time. And again, the firing rate of the MG42 was FEARED by the Allies in WWII.
DevonNetzley

Con

Let's keep this going. This is so much fun man. ^.=.^

White phosphorus is a material made from a common allotrope of the chemical element phosphorus that is used in smoke, tracer, illumination and incendiary munitions. Other common names include WP, and the slang term "Willie Pete," which is dated from its use in Vietnam, and is still sometimes used in military jargon. As an incendiary weapon, white phosphorus burns fiercely and can set cloth, fuel, ammunition and other combustibles on fire, and cause serious burns or death.In addition to its offensive capabilities, white phosphorus is also a highly efficient smoke-producing agent, burning quickly and causing an instant bank of smoke. As a result, smoke-producing white phosphorus munitions are very common, particularly as smoke grenades for infantry, loaded in grenade launchers on tanks and other armored vehicles, or as part of the ammunition allotment for artillery or mortars. These create smoke screens to mask movement, position or the origin of fire from the enemy. White phosphorus is used in bombs, artillery, mortars, and short-range missiles which burst into burning flakes of phosphorus upon impact.The British Army introduced the first factory-built WP grenades in late 1916. During World War II, white phosphorus mortar bombs, shells, rockets and grenades were used extensively by American, Commonwealth, and, to a lesser extent, Japanese forces, in both smoke-generating and antipersonnel roles. The British military also used white phosphorus bombs against Kurdish villagers and Al-Habbaniyah in Al-Anbar province during the Great Iraqi Revolution of 1920.Air burst of a white phosphorus bomb over the USS Alabama during a test exercise conducted by General Billy Mitchell, September 1921.In the interwar years, the U. S. Army trained using white phosphorus, by artillery shell and air bombardment.In 1940, when the invasion of Britain seemed imminent, the phosphorus firm of Albright and Wilson suggested that the British government use a material similar to Fenian fire in several expedient incendiary weapons. The only one fielded was the Grenade, No. 76 or Special Incendiary Phosphorus grenade, which consisted of a glass bottle filled with a mixture similar to Fenian fire, plus some latex (see also Molotov cocktail, Greek fire). It came in two versions, one with a red cap intended to be thrown by hand, and a slightly stronger bottle with a green cap, intended to be launched from the Northover projector (a crude 2.5 inch blackpowder grenade launcher). These were improvised anti-tank weapons, hastily fielded in 1940 when the British were awaiting a German invasion after losing the bulk of their modern armaments in France in May 1940. Instructions on each crate of SIP grenades included the observations, among other things:Store bombs (preferably in cases) in cool places, under water if possible.Stringent precautions must be taken to avoid cracking bombs during handling.These weapons were generally regarded as presenting a danger to their own operators and were never deployed in combat.At the start of the Normandy campaign, 20% of American 81 mm mortar rounds were white phosphorus. At least five American Medal of Honor citations mention their recipients using white phosphorus grenades to clear enemy positions, and in the 1944 liberation of Cherbourg alone, a single U.S. mortar battalion, the 87th, fired 11,899 white phosphorus rounds into the city. The U.S. Army and Marines used white phosphorus shells in 107-mm (4.2 inch) mortars. White phosphorus was widely credited by Allied soldiers for breaking up German infantry attacks and creating havoc among enemy troop concentrations during the latter part of the war.Incendiary bombs were used extensively by the German, British and U.S. air forces against civilian populations and targets of military significance in civilian areas, including London, Hamburg, and Dresden. Late in the war, some of these bombs used white phosphorus (about 1–200 grams) in place of magnesium as the igniter for their flammable mixtures. The use of incendiary weapons against civilians was banned by signatory countries in the 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons Protocol III. The USA signed Protocols I and II on March 24, 1995 under the Clinton Administration (and the amended article II on May 24, 1999) and later Protocols III, IV, and V, on January 21, 2009 under the Obama Administration.A USAF Security Police Squadron member packs an 81 mm white phosphorus smoke-screen mortar round during weapons training, 1980.White phosporus munitions were used extensively in Korea, Vietnam and later by Russian forces in Chechnya. According to GlobalSecurity.org, during the December 1994 battle for Grozny in Chechnya, every fourth or fifth Russian artillery or mortar round fired was a smoke or white phosphorus round. In Iraq, the Saddam Hussein regime used white phosphorus, as well as chemical weapons that are scheduled in the Chemical Weapons Convention, in the Halabja poison gas attack during the Iran–Iraq War in 1988, according to the ANSA news agency. Another news report said "US intelligence" called WP a chemical weapon in a declassified Pentagon report from February 1991:"Iraqi forces loyal to President Saddam may have possibly used white phosphorus chemical weapons against Kurdish rebels and the populace in Erbil and Dohuk. The WP chemical was delivered by artillery rounds and helicopter gunships." So in other words i believe your grenade has lost against mine.

"Just because you can shoot faster doesnt mean you have will hit the target. As you know from your history lessons, The US M1 Garrand and M1A1 Carbine were the most heavyly used weapons of WWII. The Gewehr 43 was interduced to late to do any real fighting." Yes my friend you are correct on that. Just because you can shoot faster doesn't necessarily mean faster kills. I want to clarify by stating that the Grerhr 43 fires at a higher rate. By 1940, it became apparent that some form of a semi-automatic rifle, with a higher rate of fire than existing bolt-action rifle models, was necessary to improve the infantry's combat efficiency. The army issued a specification to various manufacturers, and both Mauser and Walther submitted prototypes that were very similar. However, some restrictions were placed upon the design:no holes for tapping gas for the loading mechanism were to be bored into the barrel;the rifles were not to have any moving parts on the surface;and in case the autoloading mechanism failed, a bolt action was to be included.
Both models therefore used a mechanism known as the "Bang" system (after its Danish designer Soren H. Bang). In this system, gases from the bullet were trapped near the muzzle in a ring-shaped cone, which in turn pulled on a long piston that opened the breech and re-loaded the gun. This system is in contrast to the more common type of gas-operated system, in which gasses are tapped off from the barrel, and push back on a piston to open the breech to the rear. Both also included 10-round magazines that were loaded using two of the stripper clips from the Karabiner 98k, utilizing the same German-standard 8x57mm IS rounds.The Mauser design, the G41(M), failed. Only 6,673 were produced before production was temporarily halted, and of these, 1,673 were returned as unusable. The Walther design, the G41(W), is in outward appearance not unlike the Gewehr 43. Most metal parts on this rifle were machined steel, and some rifles, especially later examples utilized the bakelite type plastic handguards.

I'm losing space.
"Its parts (excluding the barrel) could be produced by a relatively unskilled workforce with simple equipment available in an auto repair garage or tin shop, freeing up more skilled workers for other tasks."
To your PPsH-41 if it was in mass production. Doesn't that mean that it was very cheeply made as well as easily broken or damaged?

Well i now leave it to my opponent
Good lu
Debate Round No. 4
bcresmer

Pro

I will concede the gernade. You win that one Con.

To your PPsH-41 if it was in mass production. Doesn't that mean that it was very cheeply made as well as easily broken or damaged?

No, it means that they good crank out hundreds a day, at really low cost. The PPsH-41 was one of the best submachine guns that came out off WWII. I don't wanna say armys, but i don't know the right word, they used the PPsH-41 up into the Iraqi War. Even the Germans used it in WWII. They printed out user manuals in german for people to use it.

On your rifle rebuttel, all you did was copy and past Wikipedia, so that is disquilfied.

Also, you never mentioned your LMG.

Tsk Tsk Con, Don't get scared now.
DevonNetzley

Con

What do you want from me man, i ran out of character space. Tsk tsk on you for not extending the character limit. I couldn't include my sites but here it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
There. Now that i have listed my sites i can add my lmg and other things. ^.=.^

"No, it means that they good crank out hundreds a day, at really low cost. The PPsH-41 was one of the best submachine guns that came out off WWII. I don't wanna say armys, but i don't know the right word, they used the PPsH-41 up into the Iraqi War. Even the Germans used it in WWII. They printed out user manuals in german for people to use it."

You never made an attack on my submachine gun, so therefore i assume that you have dropped it.
There were many small variations introduced on the G/K43 throughout its production cycle. The important consideration is that no changes were made to the rifle design specifically to coincide with the nomenclature change from Gewehr to Karabiner, with the exception of the letter stamped on the side. Careful study of actual pieces will show that many G-marked rifles had features found on K-marked rifles and vice versa. There is therefore no difference in weight or length between the G43 and the K43. Variations in barrel length did exist, but those were the product of machining tolerances, differences between factories, and/or experimental long-barreled rifles. An unknown number of late-war K43 rifles were chambered for the 7.92x33mm cartridge and modified to accept StG44 magazines. K43 with mounting railThough most G/K43's are equipped with a telescopic sight mounting rail, the vast majority of the rifles were issued in their standard infantry form without a scope. When equipped with a scope, it was exclusively the ZF 4 4-power telescopic sight. No other known scope/mount combinations were installed by the German military on G/K43's during World War II. Many strange variations have shown up after the war, but all have been proven to be the work of amateur gunsmiths. Rifles with a broken-off butt are common, as German soldiers were instructed to render semi-automatic rifles useless when in danger of capture.

"On your rifle rebuttel, all you did was copy and past Wikipedia, so that is disquilfied."

Don't be so quick to jump the gun pro. As I have stated before, I ran out of character space and could not post any sources. But they are at the top.

"Also, you never mentioned your LMG."

Here it is.
The U.S. entered World War I with an inadequately small and obsolete assortment of various domestic and foreign machine gun designs, due primarily to bureaucratic indecision and the lack of an established military doctrine for their employment. When the declaration of war on Imperial Germany was announced on 6 April 1917, the military high command was made aware that to fight this machine gun-dominated trench war, they had on hand a mere 670 M1909 Benet-Mercies, 282 M1904 Maxims and 158 Colts, M1895.[3] After much debate, it was finally agreed that a rapid rearmament with domestic weapons would be required, but until that time, U.S. troops would be issued whatever the French and British had to offer. The arms donated by the French were often second-rate or surplus and chambered in 8mm Lebel, further complicating logistics as machine gunners and infantrymen were issued different types of ammunition. A live fire demonstration of the BAR in front of military and government officialsIn 1917, prior to America's entry to the war, John Browning personally brought to Washington, D.C. two types of automatic weapons for the purposes of demonstration: a water-cooled machine gun (later adopted as the M1917 Browning machine gun) and a shoulder-fired automatic rifle known then as the Browning Machine Rifle or BMR, both chambered for the standard U.S. .30-06 Springfield cartridge. Browning had arranged for a public demonstration of both weapons at a location outside of Washington, D.C. known as Congress Heights. There, on 27 February 1917, in front of a crowd of 300 people, Browning staged a live fire demonstration which so impressed the gathered crowd, that he was immediately awarded a contract for the weapon and it was hastily adopted into service (the water-cooled machine gun underwent further testing).
Additional tests were conducted for U.S. Army Ordnance officials at Springfield Armory in May 1917 and both weapons were unanimously recommended for immediate adoption. In order to avoid confusion with the belt-fed M1917 machine gun, the BAR came to be known as the M1918 or Rifle, Caliber .30, Automatic, Browning, M1918 according to official nomenclature. On 16 July 1917, 12,000 BARs were ordered from Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company who had secured an exclusive concession to manufacture the BAR under Browning's patents (Browning's U.S. Patent 1,293,022 was owned by Colt). However Colt was already producing at peak capacity (contracted to manufacture the Vickers machine gun for the British Army) and requested a delay in production while they expanded their manufacturing output with a new facility in Meriden, Connecticut. Due to the urgent need for the weapon, the request was denied and the Winchester Repeating Arms Company (WRAC) was designated as the prime contractor. Winchester gave valuable assistance in refining the BAR's final design, correcting the drawings in preparation for mass production. Among the changes made, the ejection pattern was modified (spent casings were directed to the right side of the weapon�€"instead of straight up).The M1918 is a selective fire, air-cooled automatic rifle using a gas-operated long-stroke piston rod actuated by propellant gases bled through a vent in the barrel. The bolt is locked by a rising bolt lock. The gun fires from an open bolt. The spring-powered cartridge casing extractor is contained in the bolt and a fixed ejector is installed in the trigger group. The BAR is striker fired (the bolt carrier serves as the striker) and uses a trigger mechanism with a fire selector lever that enables operating in either semi-automatic or fully automatic firing modes. The selector lever is located on the left side of the receiver and is simultaneously the manual safety (selector lever in the "S" position, weapon is "safe", "F", "Fire", "A", "Automatic" fire). The "safe" setting blocks the trigger.
The weapon's barrel is screwed into the receiver and is not quickly detachable. The M1918 feeds using double-column 20-round box magazines, although 40-round magazines were also used in an anti-aircraft role; these were withdrawn from use in 1927. The M1918 has a cylindrical flash suppressor fitted to the muzzle end. The original BAR was equipped with a fixed wooden buttstock and closed-type adjustable iron sights, consisting of a forward post and a rear leaf sight with 100 to 1,500 yard range graduations. Bayonets for the BAR were not manufactured in great quantity and are thus extremely rare. They consisted of a spike form with a slat on the top side, attaching to the bottom of the barrel in the conventional fashion.As a heavy automatic rifle designed for support fire, the M1918 was not fitted with a bayonet mount and there was never bayonet was ever issued. Only one experimental bayonet fitting was ever made for the BAR by Winchester. This was a standard, M1917 bayonet fitted at the Winchester factory with a special muzzle ring. The bayonet was attached to a standard M1918 BAR by means of a special experimental flash hider assembly.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Ok i am getting tired. My opponent stated that his grenade selection was inferior to my choice, so my grenade has won. He aslo fails to attack my rifle selection, the Gewehr 43, so it is assumed that he has dropped the argument. I mentioned my lmg choice to compensate for runnig out of space on my last argument.

Anyway thanks this was a blast. Vote Con! ^.=.^
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by DevonNetzley 5 years ago
DevonNetzley
But besides that, I don't think I did bad job.
Posted by DevonNetzley 5 years ago
DevonNetzley
I ran out of character space on round 4. lol it was supposed to have a lot more on my Gewehr 43 and at the end was "Good luck pro." ^.=.^ Good luck dude.
Posted by bcresmer 5 years ago
bcresmer
Its a weapom debate, not a army debate
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Lol yeah he could have cheated... Or used panzer tank division or... German me262 squadron etc .
Posted by Connor666 5 years ago
Connor666
How about....THE ATOMIC BOMB!!! I WIN!
Posted by DevonNetzley 5 years ago
DevonNetzley
This is gonna rock. ^.=.^
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