The Instigator
Rockozer
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
CarpeNoctem
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Walking Dead Carol Ruins Validity of Show

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/17/2015 Category: TV
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 477 times Debate No: 84065
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

Rockozer

Pro

Hello everybody and welcome to my debate.

I am arguing about the show The Walking Dead, and the character Carol

At the time of this debate is the mid-season of season 6. And I feel with the show being this far, that Carol is more of a burden to the show.

Of course I will explain as I find an opponent to debate with
CarpeNoctem

Con

Hello, I will be accepting this debate and arguing for the Con side, against the resolution. My stance on this debate is that Carol is a pivotal character on The Walking Dead that has made advancements as a character but also advancements to the plot, and resulted in an overall increased quality of the show in general. I will also be making refutations as to why Carol is no longer a burden to the group of survivors that this TV show centers on.

I would also like to re-iterate that this debate is circa mid-season 6, so I would strongly advise that anyone who is not caught up with the show should not read any further. During the debate rounds, I may do an analysis of the decisions this character makes in detail, and also analyze events that have changed this character. I will not hesitate to talk about the events leading up to season 6, this may spoil it for anyone who is not caught up. I will not be labelling the spoilers in the rest of my arguments, therefore, you should consider this the final spoiler alert.

I am looking forward to a decent round of debating with the Pro side! Good luck to you, and I hope we both enjoy this.
Debate Round No. 1
Rockozer

Pro

Thank you for accepting my debate.

I am assuming that people who are tuning in this debate are aware of the plot of the show so I won't be doing a summary of any characters or events that happens.

Quite simply put I believe that Carol falls under the type of character that is used for pandering to a certain demographic.

She is essentially your strong, over come all the odds, female. The problem with these types of characters is that they are completely made for fan service, and are not practical.

Now I know what some people may be thinking. Hey its just a show, anything is possible. This is true. But as the title of this debate says, her character ruins the validity of the show.

How am I suppose to suspend my disbelief that a woman coming from a domestic abuse background, and no military or combat training, can hang with bigger, stronger, and faster foes? The creators are free to do what they want, but again, the validity of the lore and universe that they have created becomes conflicting with the audience.

If you want to label me as a bigot or chauvinist then that is your prerogative. But I just can't continue to believe what I am seeing in front of me as entertaining when a woman like her can fight toe to toe with Morgan, a man who has martial arts training and out weighs her. Even from a fictional stance it just not valid as believable.

I have much more to say but I will let the Con go.
CarpeNoctem

Con

The points that Pro makes in describing Carol as a strong "over come all odds female" is spot on. However, the argument that Carol's character is simply a fan-service and not practical does not particularly stand to reducing the validity of the show. The Walking Dead is a character-driven show and Carol is a unique character that provides depth. Her relationships and scenes with other characters on screen are one of the most realistic and appealing relationships on the show. For example, her screen chemistry with Sam (Jessie's younger son) portrays Carol as a maternal woman who lost her affectionate and caring instincts to the outbreak. I believe this increases the validity of the show, and adds to the quality of the programming. The Walking Dead being a character-driven show relies on characters like Carol connecting with the audience and makes for some very heart-felt scenes, (Lizzie and Mika being murdered after Carol sought to give guidance to them, Carol's daughter dying early on in the apocalypse). I would argue that characters like Carol make a human connection with the audience and despite your argument of them being impractical, the portrayal of impossible challenges being overcome is one of the greatest aspects of this show.

Now to refute the arguments you made about Carol being able to handle bigger, stronger and faster foes. The concept of the exigent circumstances of the apocalypse shaping survivors, and making them stronger is evident throughout the Walking Dead. I would like to bring up the example of The Governor, who was a normal family man before the outbreak. However, after the outbreak he turned into a persuasive leader, and then a bloodthirsty homicidal maniac. Similarly to the Governor, Carol was a soft woman who suffered from domestic abuse but over six seasons transformed into a stronger woman. Carol holding her own in a physical fight against Morgan is not completely unprecedented. Previously, Carol had been trained to operate weaponry. In season 5 Carol killed a total of twenty walkers. During the prison arc, Carol killed both Karen and Davis. Not to mention during the end of the Terminus arc, when Carol rescued Rick and the rest of the group, killing many of the people from Terminus. Carol also protected Alexandria in Season 6 when the Wolves invaded and killed a fair amount of those invaders, with little to no help from anyone else. This would lead me to believe that Carol being able to hold a fight against Morgan, due to her proved track record on the show, is not that far fetched. But why would the producers and the writers of the show choose to make Carol undergo such a radical transformation? Carol is the last known original female Atlanta camp survivor and is the only female to appear in all seasons. Turning Carol into a powerful and pivotal character is not a fan-service but reflects well upon women's image and how they are portrayed in media. Another example of this that TWD does very well is Michonne's character. This is one of the unique aspects of the show that sets it apart from other hit TV Shows, like "Game of Thrones",where female characters are only portrayed as damsels in distress, constantly getting raped and having to be saved. Empowering female characters doesn't reduce the validity of the show, it makes it more culturally responsible and makes female characters more relevant. In my humble opinion as a viewer, this increases the validity of the show, increasing the quality and the enjoyability of TWD as well.

Thank you for you (surprisingly quick) response and for your arguments.

Sources:
http://walkingdead.wikia.com...(TV_Series)
https://www.beamly.com...
Debate Round No. 2
Rockozer

Pro

Going off of your counter points. You say a good example the shows Carol strong is the relationship with Sam. Are you kdding me,this is one of the main points against her authenticity.

So she threatens a little boy's life but also offers to make cookies. Yeah I could see that possible in real life if she was an ex-military operative, but she is not. There aren't too many women who go through domestic violence, lose there daughter, lose two other children, and then able to have a straight face and tell a kid she is going to kill them. I don't care how "bad @ss" she is portrayed, that just doesn't happen. Naturally a female is going to have a nurturing temperament, and that is proven through science not just my opinion. Anybody can go research this but for the "points" of the debate I'll post a link.
http://thesinglewomanguide.com...

Now one may ask why is this relevant? Well it is relevant because the show is trying to mix all of these different qualities into a highly violate and emotional character that in the real world it just doesn't work. Like I said before you can't just combine beaten wife, turmoil of losing daughters, blowing up gas tanks, and fight hand to stick against a martial artist, and expect it to be viable, it just doesn't work. Yes of course it just fiction, but this show is based off of the physics and world that we live in so standard science and philosophy still applies.

Now you say Carol has had training, yea against slowing moving targets from a distance. The fight against Morgan was against a opponent who was physically superior and had the advantage in length with his stick. I don't think I need to really explain that just look at this botch fight. Starts at 1:45
https://www.youtube.com...
CarpeNoctem

Con

CarpeNoctem forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Rockozer

Pro

Well I am waiting for the Con to counter my point.
CarpeNoctem

Con

CarpeNoctem forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Rockozer

Pro

Well seeing how my opponent has not made any counter points I will close with this.

I am all for a good story, characters of different types being strong, and an interesting plot.

Looking at Walking Dead Carol I feel that she could be a great character, but her heroism was not earned it was given. Her attitudes and personality have gone up and down sporadically and without real purpose, instead of slow and natural.

It is good she overcame her abusive husband, but her coping with losing her daughter could have been shown more, at least for a full season. Once her daughter died she went immediately into a dark and cold I don't care about life anymore attitude, instead of mourning. Lets face it, that is just not a practical response.

I don't think any mother can just erase away her daughter being a zombie and then being shot in the face with the people whom she travels with.

And for people saying it is just a show, then let me reiterate. For us to extend our suspension of disbelief then certain things have to make sense to us real world people. And since the science of the shows universe are similar to ours, then we must take into account emotional situations in which how a person would actually act.

Hope you all enjoyed this "debate" and please vote for me
CarpeNoctem

Con

CarpeNoctem forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Rockozer 1 year ago
Rockozer
This debate will only be referencing the show. No comic tie ins at all.
Posted by Zarium 1 year ago
Zarium
I wish to debate with you - In my opinion, 99.99% of the characters there are a burden, but I can most certainly put up a valiant fight with scenes' where Carol helped :)

One Query, is this limited to the TV series, or are you using the comic as well?
Posted by WAM 1 year ago
WAM
I prefer her much more now than how she used to be...
No votes have been placed for this debate.