The Instigator
sadolite
Pro (for)
Losing
28 Points
The Contender
askbob
Con (against)
Winning
43 Points

Walmart Stampede

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 11 votes the winner is...
askbob
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/28/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,492 times Debate No: 6082
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (58)
Votes (11)

 

sadolite

Pro

I believe that every effort should be made using video surveillance to identify as many of the people involved in the ridiculous stampede and tragic death of that Walmart worker in Long Island. Walmart will of course be sued and held liable while all those responsible will walk away scott free with their peace of crap 25 dollar CD player and suffer no consequences for their actions. These people need to pay the family of this dead worker for their loss and they also need to be charged with manslaughter and thrown in jail. These people need to be made examples of so this never happens again. There is nothing that Walmart sells that is worth killing someone for. Just for the record, I never shop at walmart because just about everything they sell is made in Chinese sweat shops. But on this issue I have to take Walmarts side. I guarantee they will be sued and held liable while those responsible will walk away scott free.
askbob

Con

Hey sadolite, how's it going? I hope we can have a meaningful debate and keep it polite. I wish you the best.

In this debate I will be for walmart being sued. I am not against sueing any offenders that are caught, I simply believe walmart should be sued as well.

In my opinion this has revealed the worst side of human nature. Reading this story was absolutely sickening. I pray that the families of the man and unborn child who died in this barbaric act of human savagery will be held in everyone's prayers. They sure will be in mine.

Onto this debate.

My opponent, by being opposed of Walmart being sued, is making the dubious claim that Walmart is simply not at fault to any degree.

As is shown in the MSNBC video, there was "thousands of shoppers" at the Walmart store. Not one security member was hired apart from Walmart employees who are not trained in crowd control.

If my opponent has any knowledge of history, he would easily know that crowd control is essential to enstilling peace. Walmart had the knowledge of the size of the crowd outside. Hiring a few policemen for an hour of crowd control would have been an easy simple task that would have saved the lives of two men.

Therefore Walmart, although they cannot be blamed for the entirity of this mess. Is responsible to a degree. Therefore they should be sued.

I would like to thank my opponent for this enthralling debate and look forward to the next round.
Debate Round No. 1
sadolite

Pro

Whats up with the assumption on your part that I will be rude? I only react when people attack me on a personal level and they always start it, not me. So in a sense you open this debate with an unfounded accusation. You have no reason to even think I would be impolite. Remember who started it.
Now on to the debate. I do accept your video as a source, I accept all sources no matter where they come from. They are all sources of information and all sources should be considered in any debate no matter what the topic. People who reject sources based on their source without even considering or reading the substance of the source are usually unable to dismiss it using science or some other form of logical explanation. I watched your video and it absolutely proves that nothing will be done to locate or apprehend any of the people involved in the death of the Walmart worker. The news media outlet in this video has already tried and convicted Walmart as being 100% liable for not having enough security on hand. They make no mention what so ever about the people responsible nor do they even mention that any kind of investigation will be made into apprehending those responsible. They don't even interview a single police officer. As far as they are concerned it is case closed, it's Walmarts fault.
Let me pose a question to my opponent. Suppose they hired a police officer, and it still happened would Walmart still be liable. Why should a store have to hire a police officer to open their doors for business? If Walmart has to do this in order to protect itself from liability then every single store in the US should have to bear the same burden and expense. If other stores don't have to do this and Walmart does then I guess the whole concept of "Equality under the law does not apply" Next my opponent wants Walmart to predict the actions of people on a daily bases and hire the police to open their doors for business when they think people will stampede the doors and kill it's employees in order to protect themselves from liability. Again if Walmart has to do this then every single store in the US should have to do the same thing. Equal protection under the law. Now lets look at other situations where people are killed in stores and public buildings. Should all McDonalds be required to have armed guards in their stores at all times to prevent raving lunatics from killing all of it's customers to protect it's self from liability? Should the post office have to do the same thing? My opponent wants to place blame where it does not belong. We are human beings with the ability to think. We are not a bunch of cattle that can be spooked by a loud noise. What happened here is called a riot. And the perpetrators of this riot need to be brought to justice and held accountable. My opponent places the impossible task of making business predict human behavior in order to protect them selves from liability for the actions of others. This is illogical and ridiculous. Instead we should make examples of those involved, publicly humiliate them, sue them and throw them in jail. This will not happen again if people know they will suffer consequences for their actions such as these. But we all know who has the deep pockets and we all know nothing will be done to bring anyone to justice. Walmart will bear the full burden and those responsible will walk away scott free.
askbob

Con

My opponent recognizes the following

Walmart hired absolutely no security for a crowd that was over the thousands.

Again I would like to remind the voters that this isn't whether the persons involved should walk away scott free but whether Walmart shares part of the blame no matter how small.

Essentially walmart does share part of the blame for not hiring even one security officer.

I never mentioned the inherent ability of Walmart to look through a crystal ball and predict the future. However when a crowd becomes extreme (meaning in the thousands of people) and nothing is done to correct a situation, then I do believe Walmart is at fault.

Should Walmart or any other store have to hire crowd control when there is indeed no crowd? No.

Should McDonalds have to guard there stores from lunatics? No however if there are lunatics raving outside, making an attempt to lock the doors and call the police would be acceptable.

Essentially walmart is partially to blame because there was a situation on their premises and they did absolutely nothing to fix it. Hiring a few security guards would have easily put the full of the blame on the crowd. However they made no such action and therefore should be held responsible.

Voters do not be fooled into thinking this is a one way street this is whether Walmart should be PARTIALLY be held to blame and not fully. No one denies that the offending members of the crowd should be punished to the ABSOLUTE fullness. However I do not believe that WALMART should walk away SCOT FREE.
Debate Round No. 2
58 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by sadolite 6 years ago
sadolite
I am still waiting to see someone brought to justice.

Figured I re post because I knew no one would ever be brought to justice. They didn't even try nor did they ever have any intention. And like I said, Walmart had to pay a huge settlement even though they did nothing wrong.
Posted by sadolite 7 years ago
sadolite
I am still waiting to see someone brought to justice.
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
thought I would repost this: "I keep waiting for those other people who are equally responsible to be brought to justice." Anyone who voted for con care to eat crow now!
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
I keep waiting for those other people who are equally responsible to be brought to justice. I won this debate hands down. The people who voted for my opponent live in the same fairy tail world as he does. The legal justice system has become nothing more than another corrupt pile shi# like the rest of our govt. And don't say it is the only system we have because it can be changed and it can be reformed. They will sue Walmart because that is where the legal justice system and the lawyers will get their money. They wont make a dime pursuing anyone else. So to say that Walmart is partially responsible is to say they are 100% responsible, if no one else is going to be pursued. Simple logic for someone who lives in reality, impossible for someone who buries their head in the sand and says it should be both parties when it clearly isn't and never will be. Welcome to reality, it's an ugly place.
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
Actully they don't have bars anymore, steel doors with narrow windows, at least the holding cell anyway. never did any real time just over night. Why pay bail if your going to get out the next morning anyway.
Posted by jason_hendirx 8 years ago
jason_hendirx
>I have been to jail for this

Pics or didn't happen.
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
Believe it or not I used to be the biggest liberal, god hating religion loathing individual you ever met. All it got me was more hate. Met someone who changed my heart, God. I don't hate anymore. I just get Extremely annoyed at certain individuals who don't know their boundaries with me. It is hard to keep faith, and live by the teachings of the bible. That is why so many people reject it. It is impossible to be 100% perfect at this. This is the core argument for the non believer, they see a believer fall from grace and say see you are a hypocrite. What they don't want to understand is, it is the effort to keep trying to be faithful and live by the teachings of the bible and be repentant for your fall from grace. Non believers think anyone who falls from grace is doomed to go to hell so there is no point to god and religion at all. They don't even try, those are the people who will go to "hell" so to speak in my opinion. It is never to late to find god. But don't for one minute think you found god after you have committed a heinous crime and are headed to the electric chair or prison for life. To late for you. My opinion of course.
Posted by askbob 8 years ago
askbob
"I have been to jail for this" Oh really? That sucks.
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
To all, Please forgive me. I was having a bad week and let jason hendrix get to me. I was doing really well at not responding to personal insults for awhile. But my personality is to confront anyone who makes unproked personal attacks on me and my character and yes jason I have been to jail for this. I will continue to try refrain from responding to it but give no guarantees.
11 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by DiablosChaosBroker 8 years ago
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