The Instigator
utahjoker
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
RationalMadman
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points

War on Drugs

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
RationalMadman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/11/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,636 times Debate No: 27134
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (2)

 

utahjoker

Con

War on drugs is both a failure and against freedom.

I will be taking the con side of the argument.
RationalMadman

Pro

Let me tell you about harmful drugs.

First off Heroin.

Your character limit is very short so I shall leave it at that. I would like to see how you can justify a government not taking down heroin.

Sources:
[1] http://www.talktofrank.com...;

Debate Round No. 1
utahjoker

Con

Of course Heroin is a very dangerous drug and it causes health problems and even death, but the deaths caused by the war on drugs which include Heroin are extremely out numbered. In the years of 2011-12 55,000 Mexicans and Americans died in the war on drugs compared to the 6,500 that die because of Heroin. America spends about 20 billion dollars on the war on drugs each year that is money coming from tax payers and the last time I checked the United States is in a 16 trillion dollar debt, spending money like this causes much of the problems the United States faces today.Everyone has a right to make their choices as Americans. The last time I checked it said America is free and if someone chooses to use Heroin that is a choice they will have to live with or won't live with. I don't want a government telling me what I can or cannot put in my body this is the biggest government that is possible. I question your character if you allow over 55,000 people to die because America is too scared to let Americans make their own choices.

Souces-http://www.nytimes.com...
RationalMadman

Pro

A government's job and duty is to govern and lead its people to a direction in which they gain the most profit whilst still maintaining harmony amongst the society. It is not the people's friend, it is not the people's slave it is their master, leader and guider. Just because every American (assuming this random scenario would occur) wanted to take heroin, they must utilise force and oppress the people FOR THEIR OWN GOOD. A government is great as libertarians if the people are smart. It is when they are stupid and want to harm themselves that it must step in and destroy the wrong path while leaving the right and just path open for them to take. It is the same as telling your child that if they eat certain sweets or drink you will punish them severely, destroy their stash and shall monitor them with the utmost intent, it's for their own good.

Liberty is lovely when it is amongst smart people. Unfortunately many people,like those who want to take heroin, are quite stupid and need to be shepherded like sheep.

You are stating quotes of money but I tell you this; saving lives and preventing harm of your people is what a government should spend almost all disposable income on! Saving people from danger, such as class A drugs, is ESSENTIAL!

I shall now hand it over to you to counter this.
Debate Round No. 2
utahjoker

Con

First flaw in your argument is that you claim to be a libertarian, but your argument goes agianst a fundmental principle of personal freedom and the biggest personal freedom out their is that we as Americans should be allowed to put in our bodies what we want to. The government isn't the people's master it is acutallyt thier to serve us and give us as much freedom and liberty as needed.
Second the greatest thing about this country is that everyone has liberty in their lives no matter what they look like, believe, or how large their IQ is because we are still human and as humans we have rights.
Lastly, people who use heroin know that is isn't good for them and classifying them as all stupid people who need to be shown how to live their lives is almost insulting to those who have unpopular opions and ways of live.

My argument is about freedom and liberty, yours is about government control.
RationalMadman

Pro

"First flaw in your argument is that you claim to be a libertarian" I never once claimed that anywhere in my debate.

"The government isn't the people's master it is actually[sic] thier[sic] to serve us and give us as much freedom and liberty as needed." You never justified this. Considering that the entire purpose of law is to restrict and set boundaries, there is no true liberty with a government.

"the greatest thing about this country is that everyone has liberty in their lives no matter what they look like, believe, or how large their IQ is because we are still human and as humans we have rights." Firstly, what is 'this country' you never once stated that we were not discussing worldwide war on drugs. Secondly, if everyone has liberty why is there prison? Thirdly, do you seriously think someone with an IQ below 70, which is essentially retardation[1], has actual liberty in whatever you mean by 'this country'? You never justified why being human is an automatic ticket to have the right to take drugs.

"people who use heroin know that is isn't good for them" If they did know that, they are either suicidal or should be banned from using it.

" classifying them as all stupid people who need to be shown how to live their lives is almost insulting to those who have unpopular opions[sic[ and ways of live." Actually there is scientific backing to ban people the right to take heroin, as I highlighted in round one. Merely being unpopular or weird is not warrant, in itself, for removal of one's rights.

Sources:
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by RationalMadman 4 years ago
RationalMadman
not zero just not infinite.
Posted by utahjoker 4 years ago
utahjoker
RationalMadman you have zero sense of human freedom.
Posted by RationalMadman 4 years ago
RationalMadman
mark you are an idiot.
Posted by mark23456 4 years ago
mark23456
The war on drugs is the most idiotic thing the government has done to gain control.Every drug needs to be legalized you should decide whether its for you or not. No one should have control over your decisions but your own self.
Posted by utahjoker 4 years ago
utahjoker
I meant to say I looked at RationalMadman's profile and he claims to be a Libertarian but is anti- gun rights, drug rights.
Posted by utahjoker 4 years ago
utahjoker
I looked at RationalMadman's profile yet he is anti-gun and drug legalization.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by One_Winged_Rook 4 years ago
One_Winged_Rook
utahjokerRationalMadmanTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Con wins the argument because Pro never countered his 55,000 people die from the War on Drugs and only 6,500 die because of drugs... Pro continued to use "saving lives" as reason for the War on Drugs, but never countered this argument.. so that doesn't really make sense
Vote Placed by ax123man 4 years ago
ax123man
utahjokerRationalMadmanTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro took the extreme nanny state position and Con didn't do a good job of countering that. Con's best argument was probably the death numbers from round 2. Pro didn't really address that, but Con didn't seem to notice, instead making the mistake of using Con's profile information as part of the debate.