The Instigator
Sans_the_Ander
Con (against)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
MrBrooks
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points

War on Terror

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
MrBrooks
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/23/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,121 times Debate No: 22265
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

Sans_the_Ander

Con

8,000 characters Time to argue - 72 hours

Resolved: The positive impact of the war on terror on the United States outweighs the negative impact of the war on terror on the United States.

I will be arguing against this resolution, or that the United States receives more of a negative impact from the war on terror than a positive one.

First round for acceptance. No semantics or trolling please.

Forfeited rounds = Lose the debate
MrBrooks

Pro

I accept my opponent's challenge and look forward to the debate. I will be arguing that the positive impact of the War on Terrorism outweigh the negative impacts.
Debate Round No. 1
Sans_the_Ander

Con



I thank MrBrooks for accepting this debate.

I must admit I am recycling a case I tried to use previously (http://www.debate.org...) where my opponent FF'd all rounds. I decided to use it again to see how it does in a forfeit-free debate.


---The war on terror will never end---

Think about it.... The United States (U.S.) is at war with terror. Not with a country, not with a specific terrorist organization, but with terror. So technically, the U.S. is at war with every single terrorist and terrorist cell around the world. Terrorism will always exist. There will always be extremists ready to commit acts of terrorism for whatever reason they may have. If the U.S. remains in this war on terror, then the war will NEVER END. Former U.S. President George W. Bush talked about the goals of the "war on terror" in a September 20, 2001 speech, in which he said it "will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated." [1] So there you have it. This war will not end until EVERY terrorist around the world has been defeated. EVERY SINGLE TERRORIST. That simply is not possible for the U.S. to accomplish. This war is not beneficial for the U.S., mainly because it will NEVER END. So we can also say that the costs of the war will be never-ending, along with casualties.

Subpoint A : Cost

The American economy is really struggling right now. It is being projected that the U.S. government will have a budget deficit of approximately 1.6 trillion dollars. [2] That means that the U.S. government is spending 1.6 trillion dollars more than we actually have. Wondering how much a trillion dollars really is? If you went out and spent one dollar every single second, it would take you more than 31,000 years to spend a trillion dollars. [2] So yeah that's a LOT of money. How is the war on terror affecting this situation? If the fiscal year budget for 2012 is approved, the total costs will be $1.415 trillion. [3] That's right. If we were out of this war on terror, the U.S. government would have an extra 1.415 trillion dollars in their pocket. All of that money would almost completely eliminate the budget deficit the U.S. is facing. Continuing this never-ending war on terror will just result in trillions and trillions of dollars being spent, and guess what - since the war on terror will never end, the spending of trillions of dollars on this war will never end! That isn't very helpful to the U.S. economy, therefore it is definitely not beneficial for the U.S.

Subpoint B: Casualties

The war on terror launched by George W. Bush Jr. has led to the deaths of at least 227,000 people. [4] This includes 6,580 Americans. [5] I know that compared to other wars the U.S. has been involved in, 6,580 deaths seems like a small number. However, Americans are still dying. Americans are losing their lives in a war that has no end, and the numbers of American deaths will just keep rising and rising. These Americans would not have to die if the U.S. was not involved in this never-ending war.

---Foreign relations are not being helped---

Remember the statistic where the war on terror has killed at least 227,000 people? Well, 116,657, or 51 percent, of those deaths were civilians. [4] A war where terrorists are being eliminated is one thing. Right now, over half of the people being killed in this war on terror are civilians. The U.S. has a hand in these civilian deaths. How do other countries view the U.S. when these civilians are being killed? Andrew Kohut noted that, "the ongoing conflict in Iraq continues to fuel anti-American sentiments. America’s global popularity plummeted at the start of military action in Iraq, and the U.S. presence there remains widely unpopular." [1] The Pew Research Center conducted a survey that expresses the same results. Support for the war on terror has decreased drastically in Britain, France, Germany, Japan, and Russia since 2002. Less than a fifth of the populations of Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey support the war. [1] Being involved in the war on terror is causing major harm to the American image. Countries around the world disapprove of the war, and they see the U.S. not as saviors of the world, but as oppressive bullies. International relations are being harmed by this war on terror, and that does not benefit the U.S.

I will admit - the U.S. is fighting terrorism. Terrorists are being reduced where the U.S. is focusing their efforts. Al Queda has taken a big hit since bin Laden was taken out. However, the U.S. is receiving more of a negative impact than a positive one. Yes they are fighting terrorism. The U.S. is attempthing to protect itself and other nations against acts of terrorism. That is a positive impact of this war on terror. But when will this war end? This war is a war against TERRORISM. There will always be terrorism. Right now there are 154 known terrorist groups around the world. [6] So let's say the U.S. wipes out every single terrorist in Iraq and Afghanistan. Will they move on to Ireland? The U.K.? Israel? India? There are terrorists ALL OVER. If the actual goal of this war is to wipe out every terrorist, it will never end. And that means the costs and the casualties will never end. The war on terror will just keep on putting the U.S. trillions of more dollars in debt, while thousands and thousands of Americans and civilians will keep on losing their lives. How will other countries view the U.S. after continuing the never-ending war against terror? Support for the war has already dropped significantly in countries around the world. Support for the U.S. will continue to drop with it. The U.S. will just create more enemies while trying to eliminate enemies. And that is counterproductive.

These negative effects on the U.S. cannot be ignored. The U.S. is trying to rid the world of terrorists. While this is a noble cause, it has a negative impact on the U.S. that cannot be outweighed. The negative impact on the U.S. that results from this war on terror is simply too much.

I look forward to my opponent stating his case.




1 - http://en.wikipedia.org......

2 - http://www.businessinsider.com......#

3 - http://en.wikipedia.org......

4 - http://owni.eu......

5 - http://en.wikipedia.org......

6 - http://www.nationmaster.com......



MrBrooks

Pro

America’s Place in the World

The United States plays a unique role on the world stage; it is the vanguard of the free exchange of goods and services, and also ideas to a certain extent. The United States ensure freedom of the seas, the protection of weaker countries from aggressors, and the stability of the world community.

Our country does not do this for ideological reasons alone. Our country plays this role for a simple reason; it is in our best interests to do so. Our economic prosperity and national security are so integrated into the fabric of the world community that we benefit every time a country open its borders to the free exchange of trade and ideas, and we suffer every time a country closes itself off from the world.

This is why it is in our best interests to fight terrorism wherever it threatens to undermine national, regional, or global stability. Terrorists seek a variety of goals ranging from overthrowing the government, to simply influencing the government to adopt or disown a policy; all terrorists seek to cut their people off from the world and force their narrow-minded vision upon them. They seek to rebel against the globalized system that America has the most stake in. [1]

The task may seem daunting, because there are many terrorists in the world. While it is true that many terrorist groups exist, there is significantly less that have global reach or that have the means to achieve their destructive agendas. The United States is best compared to a doctor. A doctor will treat a patient with cancer by surgically removing the tumors, but he will simply give a patient with a cold good consel and medicine so that the patient can treat himself at home.

The patient with cancer would be Afghanistan, which required direct intervention, because the government itself sponsored terrorist groups that had global reach and threatened the stability of the global system. The patient with the cold is Mexico, which US forces provided funds and training to so they could fight the drug cartels themselves. The point is that while we should pursue the War on Terror, we do not always have to invade countries to do so. [2]

Experience will Lower Costs

The costs of the war will go down as time goes on as well. As we learn more and take in the lessons only experience can give, we’ll find cheaper and more efficient ways to defeat terrorists. We’ve already made progress, just look at the precision in which we killed Osama Bin Laden. Just look at the progress of the Iraq and Afghan wars. Over time we learned how to better fight terrorism. In the future we’ll be able to hunt terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda without conventional forces and costly campaigns; we’ll be able to eliminate these groups with precise and surgical strikes. [3]

As we remove the cancer we also equip nations to deal with terrorism themselves. This is preventative medicine, and cheaper than doing it ourselves. I will admit that we have made mistakes in this war, but mistakes are always made at first and what matters is learning from them. We have learned.

Cost of Life

People will die in this struggle, but we cannot let that deter us. This is a cause worth fighting for; for both practical and ideological reasons. It is also important to remember that the majority of civilian deaths are caused by terrorists and not US forces. In fact, the advent of smart bombs and new sophisticated targeting systems, coupled with a strict code of conduct among ground forces, has made the War on Terrorism unique in that there are not nearly as many civilian deaths caused by US forces as there were in prior wars; like Vietnam and World War 2. [4] [5]

In contrast to this, terrorists specifically design weapons and tactics to cause as much death among innocent as possible; suicide bombs, kidnappings, improvised explosive devices, and more. [6]

Conclusion/Global Opinion

The world may publically condemn us for the War on Terrorism, but the world benefits from it, just like we do. We are making the world safer, even my opponent admits this. That in the long run will outweigh the negatives. A safe world where commerce and ideas flow freely without the threat of violence is a world where the United States will always win.

[1] http://www.heritage.org...
[2] http://www.rawstory.com...
[3] http://www.cfr.org...
[4] http://www.iraqbodycount.org...
[5] http://www.ethicapublishing.com...
[6] http://www.un.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Sans_the_Ander

Con

I apoligize but I must concede. I got caught up in a bunch of other stuff and completely forgot to prepare my refutations. Sorry once again. Vote Pro


MrBrooks

Pro

Vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 3
Sans_the_Ander

Con

Once again, vote Pro.
MrBrooks

Pro

Vote for terrorism.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by JeffTucker001 1 year ago
JeffTucker001
The tragedy in Boston is incomprehensible. However devastating, senseless and random terrorism on our soil may seem, terrorists striking America always lose.

The bombers in Boston lost, in mere seconds after bombs exploded. Instead of promulgating some thought or cause"be it politics or foreign policy"they lost. They"re losing today, and they will continue to lose for decades to come. We neither care about your names, nor will we sympathize with your cause. We don"t care about which state, city or country from which you hail. But you will feel justice.

While the cowards who triggered the bombs fled the scene, hundreds of "ordinary" Americans were unwittingly minted as heroes. But you see there is nothing ordinary about Americans. People of every religion, color, ethnic background and political party put aside their fears and sense of self preservation, and focused squarely on helping the injured. Our people have come to this country from every place in the world to be rich with what matters most"freedom, opportunity and religious rights. Our strength rests in these principles, and we steadfastly unite to protect them.

Our media"sometimes maligned from left, middle or right"provide the world with unparalleled and moving vignettes of heroism, sacrifice, tragedy and courage from responders and victims alike. We grieve and celebrate lives of those we lost, and embrace and give thanks for lives saved as one American family.

The survivors"both victims and family members will be surrounded by the love and support of friends, family and our citizenry. Many will have a long road to physical and emotional recovery. They will be lifted by our love, our hope and our admiration. Their recoveries and their stories that will be told in the months and years ahead will lift the spirit of our great nation. These attacks bring us together like no other event does.

As a nation, our prayers are with the injured and killed and their grieving families. As a nation, we are o
Posted by Sans_the_Ander 2 years ago
Sans_the_Ander
@16k
I know right? If he forfeits the round for some reason, would it be bad conduct to take back the concession and go ahead and post refutations? Cuz I would have another 3 days to write them and this time I wouldn't forget about it
Posted by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
brooks, just say vote PRO and the debate ends faster
Posted by DragonX 2 years ago
DragonX
I'm for it because if we don't go to war to take down the terrorist we're encouraging the terrorist to push us around & commit more crimes against every other countries. It also better that the terrorist understand that we shouldn't be pushed around like harmless animals. It is impossible to reason with a terrorist because of he fact that they are to focused on killing others. This is something that must be taken seriously if we don't pursue on hunting them down we are encouraging them to kill more especially us. There's no way a terrorist will stop because of 1 attack they will continue to do so. There are going to be innocent people killed of course that is going to happen but the soldiers are not going to get everything despite being superhuman( in my opinion) are still going to be inaccurate so they can not always specify on who are terrorist or not because of several factors. There are enemies that are going to try to infiltrate are going to be disguised as U.S Troops. So lets keep all of that in mind shall we. Keep in mind what the U.S troops do have to o through. It's very easy to criticize a person when you're not in their situation
Posted by Wallstreetatheist 2 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
But, if you're against the war on terror, then how is the military-industrial complex going to continue record profits?? What will be an adequate substitute to motivate middle-easterners to kill US citizens more than killing their family members and establishing hated regimes?? You're just crazy!
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
Sans_the_AnderMrBrooksTied
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Total points awarded:34 
Reasons for voting decision: He said vote for terrorism ;) jk I need to give more points to pro, but still listen to pros instructions.
Vote Placed by airmax1227 2 years ago
airmax1227
Sans_the_AnderMrBrooksTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Stephen_Hawkins 2 years ago
Stephen_Hawkins
Sans_the_AnderMrBrooksTied
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Total points awarded:16 
Reasons for voting decision: FF