The Instigator
Mr.Oxley
Con (against)
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0 Points
The Contender
Poisonchocolate
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Was Athenian Democracy really a democracy?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/29/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 341 times Debate No: 64149
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

Mr.Oxley

Con

No it was not.
Poisonchocolate

Pro

I accept this debate! I look forward to seeing your argument, and good luck!
Debate Round No. 1
Mr.Oxley

Con

Only free men who were 20 years old and had completed military training were allowed to vote. That means that only around 10% of the population were allowed to take part in the government. This does not sound like rule by the people this sounds like rule by a small group of people which is the definition of oligarchy, not democracy.
Poisonchocolate

Pro

Poisonchocolate forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Mr.Oxley

Con

Another aspect that backs this up is that every year, the Council of 500 would vote one member out who was thought to be the most undemocratic. This person was then exiled for ten years. Exiling people does not equal freedom.
Poisonchocolate

Pro

Poisonchocolate forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Mr.Oxley

Con

Mr.Oxley forfeited this round.
Poisonchocolate

Pro

Poisonchocolate forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Mr.Oxley

Con

Mr.Oxley forfeited this round.
Poisonchocolate

Pro

This is the same text as in the comments:

So, to start of with, we need to define democracy. The Oxford English Dictionary uses this definition, which is, with slight variations, quite similar to most other definitions: "Government by the people; esp. a system of government in which all the people of a state or polity (or, esp. formerly, a subset of them meeting particular conditions) are involved in making decisions about its affairs, typically by voting to elect representatives to a parliament or similar assembly". They key words here are "or, esp. formerly, a subset of them meeting particular conditions".
For the Athenians, their particular conditions were to be a male citizen who had completed military training. Slaves, freed slaves, children, women, and foreigners were not allowed to vote. Of this small eligible group, the vast majority participated in the government, resulting in, overall, a rate of 10-20% of all Athenians voting. Compared to in America, where ~60% of people are eligible to vote, and ~60% of them actually do vote (resulting in about 40% of Americans voting), this number is not very far off.
So, while their voting population is smaller than the US, it still complies with the definition for democracy, and was a great improvement over most other governments at the time. In fact, some people would argue that it is more democratic than our present-day republic, in which people do not vote on actual laws, they only elect people who make the laws. Athens had a direct democracy, in which all eligible people voted for everything. Simply having more restrictions on who is allowed to vote does not make a society undemocratic.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Poisonchocolate 2 years ago
Poisonchocolate
Alright! So, as the actual argument system has been compromised, we shall continue the debate from the comments section (certainly glad to help you and your students!).

So, to start of with, we need to define democracy. The Oxford English Dictionary uses this definition, which is, with slight variations, quite similar to most other definitions: "Government by the people; esp. a system of government in which all the people of a state or polity (or, esp. formerly, a subset of them meeting particular conditions) are involved in making decisions about its affairs, typically by voting to elect representatives to a parliament or similar assembly". They key words here are "or, esp. formerly, a subset of them meeting particular conditions".
For the Athenians, their particular conditions were to be a male citizen who had completed military training. Slaves, freed slaves, children, women, and foreigners were not allowed to vote. Of this small eligible group, the vast majority participated in the government, resulting in, overall, a rate of 10-20% of all Athenians voting. Compared to in America, where ~60% of people are eligible to vote, and ~60% of them actually do vote (resulting in about 40% of Americans voting), this number is not very far off.
So, while their voting population is smaller than the US, it still complies with the definition for democracy, and was a great improvement over most other governments at the time. In fact, some people would argue that it is more democratic than our present-day republic, in which people do not vote on actual laws, they only elect people who make the laws. Athens had a direct democracy, in which all eligible people voted for everything. Simply having more restrictions on who is allowed to vote does not make a society undemocratic.
Posted by Mr.Oxley 2 years ago
Mr.Oxley
Thank you for your comments. I am actually a high school teacher, and I am just trying this out to see if my students would be able to do this. I believe they will be able to so if you could comment on some of these debates tomorrow, it would be very appreciated. I really like when my students can see other opinions from people outside of their immediate area.
Posted by GoOrDin 2 years ago
GoOrDin
-Thus. Athenians had a very prominent democratic government

"*-children and drunkards who cannot fight, or int he event of drunkards and whores ~WHO DEMONSTRATE THEY CANNOT ~ Use LOGIC. Edit**

the pedestals and podiums were much more public and social, and the entire community had their opportunity to speak and voice their opinions.
Posted by GoOrDin 2 years ago
GoOrDin
I stand on behalf of Pro to defend the Athenian Government of the Monotheist Culture of the Greeks superior nation, who acknowledged Chaos alone as being the Creator and Manifestor of reality.

A Government is not ruled by a majority of the population even when it is a democracy. That is not the definition of a democracy. The definition of a democracy is the Greater majority of those eligible to vote can vote. Thus by definition it IS a Democracy.

Despite I am not Pro democracy, The Greek establishment was also a Democracy in your own perspective if you truly perceive the Greek Government.

The term eligible is not determined by the ruling class, but by God. Because this is a monotheist government. Hence it is not a monarchy, nor is it a Subjective government, and by this I mean, Stolen Government of Tyrants and treasonous Heretics.

Only those who would in the event of a war, or famine be required or capable of looking after the citizens were allowed to vote. That is logical. A boy who cannot run across the desert cannot vote, "Let us all up and leave, cross this desert and live far away. It has been voted" That is illogical. Int he same manner children now want to vote to legalize homosexuality which inevitably introduces rape, neglect, abuse and pedophile culture into society and empowers the politically unjust simply by being of such a condition of Arrogance in their acclaimed ignorance.

Furthermore. Being capable of making the right decisions which were factually uniform with the societies monotheist beliefs and practices was a mandatory condition of a voters capacity to represent reason and logic:

Because these Votes are not the pedestals and podiums of philosophy and Reasoning, they are subjective moments of Important decision making which would inevitably be enacted solely by the Governing forces and not the women, children and drunkards who cannot fight, or int he event of drunkards and whores Use LOGIC.

Thus. Athenians had a very promi
Posted by Poisonchocolate 2 years ago
Poisonchocolate
Oh no! I didn't realize the argument timer was so short! Extremely sorry, I didn't meant o forfeit those rounds! I shall try to get the next one in.
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