The Instigator
CoronerPerry
Con (against)
Losing
21 Points
The Contender
InquireTruth
Pro (for)
Winning
56 Points

Was Jesus Christ Truly Innocent?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 11 votes the winner is...
InquireTruth
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/23/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,613 times Debate No: 5502
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (11)

 

CoronerPerry

Con

For this topic, I will let my opponent start.

I am arguing that Jesus wasn't truly innocent.

affirmative argues that jesus WAS innocent.

(innocent can be difined multiple ways for this)

3000 characters, 24 hours to reply, 3 rounds.

to my apponent :-D
InquireTruth

Pro

Indeed innocent can be used in multiple ways, in fact, it behooves us to peruse our options:

Dictionary.com defines Innocent the following ways:
1.free from moral wrong; without sin; pure: innocent children.
2.free from legal or specific wrong; guiltless: innocent of the crime.
3.not involving evil intent or motive: an innocent misrepresentation.
4.not causing physical or moral injury; harmless: innocent fun.
5.devoid (usually fol. by of): a law innocent of merit.
6.having or showing the simplicity or naivet� of an unworldly person; guileless; ingenuous.
7.uninformed or unaware; ignorant.

And Guilty:
1.having committed an offense, crime, violation, or wrong, esp. against moral or penal law; justly subject to a certain accusation or penalty; culpable: The jury found her guilty of murder.

Sense the real character of Jesus is only developed in the Bible we must use this as the source for our investigation.

According to the Gospels, and a small snippet from the Jewish historian Josephus, Jesus was charged with blasphemy by the high priests but was sentenced under the rule of Pontius Pilot. In Judaism, the act of blasphemy was marked by cursing or reviling God.

Was Jesus guilty of blasphemy (referring to the second definition)?

Even Pilate's wife new of Jesus' innocence and warned Pilate in Matthew 27:19
"While Pilate was sitting on the judge's seat, his wife sent him this message: ‘Don't have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him.'"

Pilot said this to those who wished to crucify him.
"Why? What crime has he committed?" (Matthew 27:23)

Judas Iscariot, the man who turned Jesus in was aware of Jesus' innocence and lamented in Matthew 27:4
"I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility."

Jesus was indeed not guilty of the crime he was charged. This was confirmed by both betrayer and judge.

Was Jesus without sin (referring to the 1st definition)?
2 Corinthians 5:21 says that Jesus had no sin.
Was Jesus intent evil (referring to the 3rd definition)?
There is no evidence that Jesus had any evil intentions, in fact that would be contradictory to the aforementioned verse.

Did Jesus cause physical or moral injury to anybody (referring to the fourth)?
No, and to the contrary, he healed many a sick folk.

The rest of the definitions can be disregarded with common sense.

Jesus was not guilty in any sense. Sense guilt denotes sin, and according to the sources that describe the life and death of Jesus contend that he was in fact without sin, we cannot with clear rationale conclude that Jesus was guilty.
Debate Round No. 1
CoronerPerry

Con

CoronerPerry forfeited this round.
InquireTruth

Pro

Extend all my arguments. Extend all my arguments. Extend all my arguments. Extend all my arguments.

Thank you. And do what is proper and vote PRO.
Debate Round No. 2
CoronerPerry

Con

I apologize for my forfeit. I've been busy with school and work, and didn't have any time to post an argument... being that it's the weekend, I can now.

Was Jesus Christ Truly Innocent...

I say, and with plenty of research, that jesus was not TRULY inncent...

"The rest of the definitions can be disregarded with common sense."
one of the definitions that my opponent presented himself, is..

7.uninformed or unaware; ignorant.

and yes, we can use common sense for this one. common sense says that jesus christ was not ignorant, therefore disproves that he was innocent with that definition.

6.having or showing the simplicity or naivet� of an unworldly person; guileless; ingenuous.

I took a look at the definition of guileless, and it was artless. on the contrary, Jesus Christ was full of art. he would sing to the children, he would teach with an artform.

devoid doesn't help him either, because he is not empty of anything. he was full of life, and full of hope.

4.not causing physical or moral injury; harmless: innocent fun.

as Jesus Christ died, it resulted in an earthquake killing, and hurting many people.. he caused it.

2.free from legal or specific wrong; guiltless: innocent of the crime.

King Herod told jesus not to preach anymore, yet Jesus still did. Back then, similar to how religions believe that the words of their leader is the word of god, then, the word of the king was the word of the law... Jesus directly disobeyed King Herod, making him a law breaker.

1.free from moral wrong; without sin; pure: innocent children.

Some ideas say he is free from moral wrong, but it can be disputed. many religions believed that he did stuff with mary magdelin outside of marriage, contradicting his teachings.

for 3, what do we know. the bible is very biased toward christ. we can't be so sure that he had evil intentions or not. there is simply not enough evidence...

and even still, the definition of truly is: exactly; accurately; correctly.

Was Jesus Exactly innocent? even if he can argue any of my definitions, if even one of the defenitions of innocent prove that christ wasn't innocent, which I have done with all, then He is not truly innocent.

I urge you to vote with my in negation of this topic.

thankyou :-D

have fun AFF
InquireTruth

Pro

"And yes, we can use common sense for this one. Common sense says that Jesus Christ was not ignorant, therefore disproves that he was innocent with that definition."

If my opponent is unwilling to take the Bible as a reliable source than he simply cannot substantiate this claim or any others. If he takes the Bible as a reliable source for the character of Christ than he must drop all legal, moral and other charges – for the bible emphatically states that Jesus was both innocent of all crime and sinless by nature. Beyond that Jesus was in fact ignorant of many things. Jesus thought that the mustard see was the smallest seed you plant in the ground (Mark 4:31). So even Jesus was not without ignorance.

"I took a look at the definition of guileless, and it was artless. on the contrary, Jesus Christ was full of art. he would sing to the children, he would teach with an artform."

My opponent is making empty claims. When did Jesus sing to children? What ancient and corroborated source states that Jesus was an artist? My opponent simply must have forgotten to look up the word Ingenuous:
1.free from reserve, restraint, or dissimulation; candid; sincere.
Jesus was very sincere.

"Devoid doesn't help him either, because he is not empty of anything. he was full of life, and full of hope."

It seems my opponent has forgotten to look up the word devoid as well:
1. not possessing, untouched by, void, or destitute.
Jesus was in fact not possessing and was indeed destitute. "Jesus replied, ‘Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.'" (Matthew 8:20)

"as Jesus Christ died, it resulted in an earthquake killing, and hurting many people.. he caused it."

Actually there is absolutely no documentation that suggests anybody died. AND even if what you suggest were true, Jesus was absolutely not responsible for those persons' deaths, it was the earthquake. Indeed Jesus' death actually had the opposite affect of what my opponent suggests:
"The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life" (Matthew 27:52).

"King Herod told Jesus not to preach anymore, yet Jesus still did. Back then, similar to how religions believe that the words of their leader is the word of god, then, the word of the king was the word of the law... Jesus directly disobeyed King Herod, making him a law breaker."

Again, my opponent is NOT CITING SOURCES! The King Herod who issued the census was actually dead before Jesus even started his ministry. (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

"Some ideas say he is free from moral wrong, but it can be disputed. Many religions believed that he did stuff with mary magdelin outside of marriage, contradicting his teachings."

MY OPPONENT IS NOT CITING SOURCES! Gospel of Philip is not a reliable (it's barely readable) source and even if it were true, there is nothing inherently wrong with kissing a girl on the lips.

VotePRO
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by InquireTruth 8 years ago
InquireTruth
Ha ha. Well you did a very good job. Your response threw me.
Posted by CoronerPerry 8 years ago
CoronerPerry
for the record, I truly believe christ to be innocent. I wanted to see if I could debate opposite my belief
Posted by ANSmith 8 years ago
ANSmith
this is really vague if you ask me, you say that innocent can have multiple meanings in this case, what do YOU take it to mean? You opponent needs to know that in order to make a decent argument, since they would be arguing YOUR definition of innocent...
11 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by K_Rich3 8 years ago
K_Rich3
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