The Instigator
DanT
Pro (for)
Winning
38 Points
The Contender
Crypto247
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Was Lincoln Oppressive to the North

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/22/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,519 times Debate No: 18433
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (8)

 

DanT

Pro

On July 2, 1861 President Lincoln authorized General Winfield Scott to suspend the Writ of Habeas Corpus, "between the city of New York and the city of Washington" by executive order.
On October 14, 1861 the suspension of the Writ of Habeas Corpus was "extended so far as Bangor, in Maine" by another Executive order, thereby suspending the Writ of Habeas Corpus in New England.

After Replacing General Scott with General H.W Halleck on November 1st, he than ordered General Halleck to suspend the Writ of Habeas Corpus in the Border state of Missouri, on December 2, 1861

To me this is unnecessary and a act of tyranny.
Crypto247

Con

Thanks for the debate my good man. I disagree. Lincoln was a great president imo. He would never do anything to be oppressive to anyone but the south. Sure he has did wrong things but he also had a good reason too.
Debate Round No. 1
DanT

Pro

On July 2, 1861 President Lincoln authorized General Winfield Scott to suspend the Writ of Habeas Corpus, "between the city of New York and the city of Washington" by executive order.
On October 14, 1861 the suspension of the Writ of Habeas Corpus was "extended so far as Bangor, in Maine" by another Executive order, thereby suspending the Writ of Habeas Corpus in New England.

After Replacing General Scott with General H.W Halleck on November 1st, he than ordered General Halleck to suspend the Writ of Habeas Corpus in the Border state of Missouri, on December 2, 1861

On Sept. 24, 1862 Lincoln extended the Suspension of Habeas Corpus throughout the entire Union, through Proclamation 94, under which he specifically stated, "all persons discouraging volunteer enlistments, resisting militia draft or guilty of any disloyal practice affording aid and comfort to rebels against the authority of the United States, shall be subject to martial law and liable to trial and punishment by courts-martial or military commissions"

In other words, anyone who was reluctant to volunteer to enlist in the Military, anyone who dodged the draft, or anyone openly opposed the war, could find themselves Prisoners of War, without the Writ of Habeas Corpus.

Prior to this proclamation on June 30, 1862, Lincoln ordered the Governors of several states to draft 150,000 men into the Militia.
In 1864 he would order two more drafts, one for 500,000 men, and another for 200,000 men.

During Vietnam only 1.2% of the population was drafted, and draft dodgers was pardoned. During the Civil war 3.8% of the population was drafted, and draft dodgers was hung.
Crypto247

Con

Ok you are right about that, but we needed all that men just to even have a chance fighting the south. Without them we would have lost that war easily. You know as well as I do. We had no choice but to do that. May not be exactyl right but is had to be done or eles thing would be differnet.
Debate Round No. 2
DanT

Pro

My opponent claims we could not have won without the draft. That is false, the Draft was unnecessary, as even without it we would have maintained an numerical advantage.
The Confederate Army had 1,064,000 men. The Union Army had 2,100,000 men, 120,000 of which was Southern Unionists. If you eliminate the 850,000 who was drafted, the union still outnumber the confederates by 186,000 men. The Union suffered 140,414 casualties, while the south suffered only 72,524 casualties. So the Union suffered 67,890 more casualties than the south.A 186,000 man advantage is more than twice the 67,890 Casualty disadvantage. The North would have still won the war, with a great advantage in troops.

Benjamin Franklin stated, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I believe he was right.
James Madison once said, "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. " The Lincoln and the civil war is proof of this statement.

Don't forget the Civil war was a war of aggression. In 1861 Confederate President Jefferson Davis said, "We seek no conquest. All we ask is to be left alone."
Contrary to popular belief the Civil War was not over slavery, it was over secession. Lincoln was not concerned about slavery, his main focus was Nationalism, and contrary to the Confederates who believed in States Rights, Lincoln believed that what is good for the Nation trumps everything else, including the rights of the people. The agricultural South seceded over the industrial north's National policies, no over slavery.
In 1861 3 weeks after Confederate General Robert E. Lee was promoted to a Colonel in the U.S. Army, President Lincoln offered him a Senior Command with the rank of Major General, Lee replied, "If Virginia stands by the old Union, so will I. But if she secedes,... then I will follow my native state with my sword and, if need be, with my life."

The Mayor of New York City, Fernando Wood, made an address to the City Council in 1861, recommending that, with the Southern states seceding from the United States, New York City should become an independent city-state. He stated, "When disunion has become a fixed and certain act, why may not New York disrupt the bands which bind her to a venal and corrupt master.... Amid the gloom which the present and prospective condition of things must cast over the country, New York, as a free city, may shed only light and hope of a future reconstruction of our once blessed confederacy. "

Thomas Jefferson once stated, "If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it. "
Thomas Jefferson has also stated, "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation... to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, 'let us separate.'"
Crypto247

Con

I guess you have spoke your point, and I have to say I now agree with you fully. I have no other arguements I can make right now to you. Nothing at all to be honest. I guess this is all I think.
Debate Round No. 3
DanT

Pro

Thank you. I enjoyed debating with you.
Crypto247

Con

Your welcome Instigator.
Debate Round No. 4
DanT

Pro

I take it the debate ended early than...
Crypto247

Con

Yeah I guess so.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by socialpinko 5 years ago
socialpinko
No. Can't get to a computer.
Posted by phantom 5 years ago
phantom
He was oppressive to the south that's for sure, and was a bit of a tyrant. I don't know about how he was to the north though...
Posted by DanT 5 years ago
DanT
ok thank you. Are you going to accept the Debate Challenge?
Posted by socialpinko 5 years ago
socialpinko
You'll find that criteria is not really a good idea on DDO. A good amount of us are under eighteen.
Posted by DanT 5 years ago
DanT
I just changed it so you match, had t set to 18 age min.
Posted by socialpinko 5 years ago
socialpinko
How do I not match the rank criteria?
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
DanTCrypto247Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Zarroette 2 years ago
Zarroette
DanTCrypto247Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con gracefully concedes.
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
DanTCrypto247Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: I believe that Lincolns actions were necessary for the war but Con gave up the debate
Vote Placed by kohai 5 years ago
kohai
DanTCrypto247Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: CON-cession.
Vote Placed by BennyW 5 years ago
BennyW
DanTCrypto247Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Con conceded and din't have much of an argument to begin with.
Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
DanTCrypto247Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con-cession
Vote Placed by Deathbeforedishonour 5 years ago
Deathbeforedishonour
DanTCrypto247Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con conceited.
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
DanTCrypto247Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: DanT knew his history, but unfortunately I can't say the same for Con, with his terse responses and his 'untimely' concession.