The Instigator
syracuse100
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
MettaWorldPeace
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Was Ronald Reagan a Good President?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
syracuse100
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/31/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,423 times Debate No: 69245
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

syracuse100

Pro

I will start off by simply stating, Ronald Reagan was one of the greatest presidents in our history. That, of course, is my opinion.

I want to be the one to rebut first in this argument, so I will use my first round as a pass. I will gladly rebut any statements that prove that Ronald Reagan was a bad president. I believe that I can not only accomplish at destroying these arguments, but also making strong points in showing you how he was one of the finest presidents America has ever had.
MettaWorldPeace

Con

I would like to thank you for what should be a good debate, I do not know a whole lot about Reagan, as I was just Born when he became President, but I'll try to give my perspective on how he influenced politics in my lifetime. If someone else more qualified wanted to do this debate, I just want to say beat you to it, but maybe there will be more debates like this in the future, as it is try to enjoy reading a different person's perspective!
Debate Round No. 1
syracuse100

Pro

Thankyou for accepting this argument. Good luck to you.

Why was Reagan a great president? I will list a few of the many reasons why Ronald Wilson Reagan was a hero to the American people.

1. Class. This may be the weakest point of my argument, but look at Reagan's personality. He connected with the common people. He joked, smiled, and laughed all while taking the serious responsibility of leading our nation.

2. Reaganomics. His economic policy was brilliant. He did the almost impossible. Without raising the minimum wage a dime, he managed to give our nation the "largest peacetime economic boom in American history and nearly 35 million more jobs". http://www.heritage.org....

What did his policies result in?
- Inflation dropped from 13.5% in 1980 to 4.1% in 1988.
- Unemployment fell from 7.6% in 1980 to 5.5% in 1988.
- Real gross national product rose 26%
- Net worth's of families around the middle class (20,000 to 50,000 annually) grew by 27%
- The prime interest rate was cut in half
http://www.reaganfoundation.org...

His tax cuts were miraculous. He lowered taxes while having this economic boom. He cut the top tax rate from 70% to 28%. http://www.econdataus.com...

3. The end of the Cold War. People who despise, or even berate Reagan lovers love to say how he raised our debt to over a trillion dollars. What most forget to mention is the Cold War. Reagan used billions of dollars for defense spending. He ranged from spending 320 all the way to 460 billion dollars throughout his presidency. Spending these billions of dollars to defend our nation from a nuclear war was essential. This spending also helped LEAD to the END of the Cold War. The Soviet Union could not keep up with the cash flow that we were spending on defending and supplying arms to our nation, and as a result are no longer a nation today. http://www.washingtonpost.com...

4. War on Drugs. He raised 1.7 billion dollars on the war against drugs. http://en.wikipedia.org...

5. Reagan had a 0 tolerance policy in many ways. For example, the air traffic controllers strike on August 5th, 1981. Reagan asked the workers on strike to return to work within 48 hours. When they did not, Reagan fired over 11,000 air traffic control workers so flights could be on the move again. He ended the strike. Note: the strike was illegal, you can not go on strike if you are an air traffic control worker. http://www.politico.com...

6,7,8,9,10. I can go on and on. Reagan had so many great qualities. Statistics and opinions show! In his first election in 1980 he won 44 of the 50 states, but lost electoral votes in Washington D.C. In the election of 1984 he only lost D.C and the hometown of his opponent, Mondale, Minnesota. http://uselectionatlas.org.... http://electoralmap.net...

There are so many positives about Reagan while I see close to no drawbacks. I would like to see what my opponent can say about these topics and I would also like to see the bad (if there even is any) that he has done.
MettaWorldPeace

Con

According to the source you provide, the income taxes as a percentage paid went down, while the proportion of total taxes paid went up--the only explanation for this is an increasing wealth gap. At this point I would like to point out all your links are now broken on my end. Next you point to not raising the minimum wage as a good thing, but this is rather the same scenario--the economy improved while lower earning wages were stagnant. You say the tax rate dropped from 70%-28% with the previous two statements this implies the wealthy were getting wealthier while again wages remained static.

In 1 you say it was peacetime and in 3 "Cold War," which was it--an imaginary enemy to scare us(peacetime) or a real threat (real Cold War). The war on drugs is a miserable sideshow in U.S. Policy that has led to the high incarceration rate in U.S. Citizens-- highest per capita in world still to this day. Ending a strike in this way shows he was not a "Hero to those American people" as you claim in your opening.

No new claims due to bad internet.
Debate Round No. 2
syracuse100

Pro

You said:

"According to the source you provide, the income taxes as a percentage paid went down, while the proportion of total taxes paid went up--the only explanation for this is an increasing wealth gap. At this point I would like to point out all your links are now broken on my end. Next you point to not raising the minimum wage as a good thing, but this is rather the same scenario--the economy improved while lower earning wages were stagnant. You say the tax rate dropped from 70%-28% with the previous two statements this implies the wealthy were getting wealthier while again wages remained static."

I knew you were going to mention the 'wage gap' and I knew you were going to say the rich got richer. I am prepared for that. Look at this statistic.
The wage gap DID increase. But the liberals and democrats keep it at that just like you said above. You said "...the wealthy were getting wealthier...", and "...increasing in the wage gap." This is a blind spot most people do not look through. Since under the Reagan administration it was the longest American peacetime in history, ALL of the income brackets increase from poor to rich. Look at this article.
http://www.wnd.com...
"Between 1982 and 1989 " the Reagan years " the top fifth gained a whopping 20.5 percent. The fourth fifth gained 13 percent. The middle fifth gained 11.1 percent. The fourth fifth gained 10.7 percent and those on the lowest rung of the ladder, the bottom fifth, gained 12.6 percent."

Every single income bracket increased by over 10 percent. Sure the rich gained more, but are you trying to say that a 12.6% increase for the bottom fifth (the poorest of the poor) is bad? Under the Reagan administration everyone's wages increased!
That is my rebuttal for your first statement.

Now, to your second paragraph.
You said:
"In 1 you say it was peacetime and in 3 "Cold War," which was it--an imaginary enemy to scare us(peacetime) or a real threat (real Cold War). The war on drugs is a miserable sideshow in U.S. Policy that has led to the high incarceration rate in U.S. Citizens-- highest per capita in world still to this day. Ending a strike in this way shows he was not a "Hero to those American people" as you claim in your opening."

I will try to break this paragraph down.

Not only I say it was a peacetime, but research and look online. Most experts are saying it was the longest American peacetime in history.

You said "The war on drugs is a miserable sideshow in U.S. Policy that has led to the high incarceration rate in U.S. Citizens-- highest per capita in world still to this day." I do not see how this shows Reagan as a bad president, so I would ask if you could elaborate next round.

Next, you said, "Ending a strike in this way shows he was not a "Hero to those American people" as you claim in your opening." Yes, it does. The job as an air traffic control worker is ESSENTIAL to having flights land and coordinating them to their destinations. Air lines were shut down for days because of these air traffic control workers refusing to work. Without the actions that Reagan did, you would not be on your next flight for a good week or so.
MettaWorldPeace

Con

I see the statistic you point to and it is a whopping 12.6%--don't believe everything you read.

You say it was peacetime so then the war was an imaginary threat of terror.

So you are on the side of oppressing 11,009 airline workers so people's flights can land on time.

Now I'll answer the article. People called him all those things and that's awful--trust me I've been called a lot of things. But he ended with Alzheimer's--and that was the most tragic. What the author doesn't understand is he did hate all those things that she said he didn't--what didn't he hate communism, taxes, and poverty (the last he probably should). But, Alzheimer's is a disease of forgetting and he forgot a lot he shouldn't have. The great society was the great society because it was great and after the Nixon years he could have been the one to remember that--but he was too busy bringing up boogymen--communists, drugs, and government. The thing he was sworn to protect he didn't.

What Reagan thought was that by "raising the tide the boat lifts--" break this down. If you lift the tide (of people) the nation (boat) prospers. So he analyzed the situation very wrong. Maybe he was a good man and maybe people were awful to him, but he did'nt lead the country in the right direction on this take.

I would now like to give my take on Reagan--if you have Faith then you will listen to the bad because good might come out of it. As I've said he harbors fear and inequality in this country. He was a wonderful man to be in the room with, but if your not in the room people would question--is he thinking of MY interests. He had a complex where he was stubborn and at times arrogant. He made a lot of friends, but he made a lot of enemies. Look at culture at that time--worthless junk. The relics of that era are mishoginied and course. He was an actor--resolute on camera. But if you look behind the scenes you see he was a tired man--who's days were not filled with the ambitions he harbors. Claims are widely exaggerated and things he is said to of done primarily happened on there own accord. But, I will stop here because any complex character cannot be summed in one paragraph.
Debate Round No. 3
syracuse100

Pro

I will break down what you stated once again.

You said:
"I see the statistic you point to and it is a whopping 12.6%--don't believe everything you read."

All I can simply say is to look at the income brackets and do the math. It has been done. It is a statistic. You cannot simply dismiss the fact that the poor gained 12.6%. The fact that you think this is so high that you said "don't believe everything you read" proves my point to how very few people recognize how Reagan not only helped the rich, but his administration benefited the poor.

Next you said:
"You say it was peacetime so then the war was an imaginary threat of terror."

It was the greatest economic peacetime. Also, he ended the war to make America a safer place.

Then you stated:
"So you are on the side of oppressing 11,009 airline workers so people's flights can land on time."

I will inform you on a bit of law. It is illegal to strike if your job is essential to society to function. Example: Teacher, or air traffic controller. Look at this site. http://education.findlaw.com.... This site sums up that overall, you cannot strike as a teacher. Kansas law says "Strikes are prohibited." Maine laws say "Strikes by all state employees are prohibited." Massachusetts law states "Strikes by public employees are prohibited." New Hampshire law says "Strikes by public employees are illegal by statute." Nevada law says "Strikes by public employees are illegal by statute." The list goes on and on.

Now, to air traffic control workers. This pertains to them as well. They were fired justly, and it was also legal. This article explains why Reagan declared it legal. http://www.motherjones.com.... This talks about how Reagan fired them and had the right to because of the Taft-Hartley Labor Act. You can see the Taft-Hartley Labor Act right here. http://www.infoplease.com.... If you read it over, it gives Reagan the power to do this, and thank goodness he did.

Now that the legality issue is over, was firing the workers the right decision? Yes. Look here. http://en.wikipedia.org...(1968). One statement says "...the government was initially able to have 50% of flights available." This means 50% of flights were not functioning during these strikes. If Reagan did not act, the situation would only grow deeper. Billions would be lost, and not to mention, pilots, flight attendants, and all others who partake in airline work would be out of work. People who would have to get home, or go for a business meeting, or even visit their dying parents, would not have the chance to.

To sum up that rebuttal, YES, I am as you say, "...you are on the side of oppressing 11,009 airline workers so people's flights can land on time."

Your next paragraph says the following:
"Now I'll answer the article. People called him all those things and that's awful--trust me I've been called a lot of things. But he ended with Alzheimer's--and that was the most tragic. What the author doesn't understand is he did hate all those things that she said he didn't--what didn't he hate communism, taxes, and poverty (the last he probably should). But, Alzheimer's is a disease of forgetting and he forgot a lot he shouldn't have. The great society was the great society because it was great and after the Nixon years he could have been the one to remember that--but he was too busy bringing up boogymen--communists, drugs, and government. The thing he was sworn to protect he didn't."

I will try to break this down.
"...what didn't he hate communism, taxes, and poverty (the last he probably should)."
Um, since when is hating communism, taxes, and poverty?

Here you say,
"But, Alzheimer's is a disease of forgetting and he forgot a lot he shouldn't have."
He shouldn't have... how is he supposed to remember something if he has an UNCURABLE DISEASE that affects his brain! I actually was incredulous when I read this statement. You are trying to put an argument by saying he had Alzheimer's disease? This is ridiculous!

The last part of this paragraph says,
"The great society was the great society because it was great and after the Nixon years he could have been the one to remember that--but he was too busy bringing up boogymen--communists, drugs, and government. The thing he was sworn to protect he didn't."

Wonderful, all opinions. Give me facts, statistics, something that I can argue over. A lot (if not all) that you have posted has had a lack of statistics, sources, and plain out facts. Also, the next paragraph in your argument fits this same logic. Now, to your final paragraph.

Your last paragraph says,
"I would now like to give my take on Reagan--if you have Faith then you will listen to the bad because good might come out of it. As I've said he harbors fear and inequality in this country. He was a wonderful man to be in the room with, but if your not in the room people would question--is he thinking of MY interests. He had a complex where he was stubborn and at times arrogant. He made a lot of friends, but he made a lot of enemies. Look at culture at that time--worthless junk. The relics of that era are mishoginied and course. He was an actor--resolute on camera. But if you look behind the scenes you see he was a tired man--who's days were not filled with the ambitions he harbors. Claims are widely exaggerated and things he is said to of done primarily happened on there own accord. But, I will stop here because any complex character cannot be summed in one paragraph."

Your first point:
" As I've said he harbors fear and inequality in this country."

Where? Where he fires the air traffic controllers? That is not harboring fear and inequality. Raising income on the lower and middle class creates inequality? 20 million new jobs creates inequality? Ending the Cold War is harboring fear?

And here is your final point:
"He was a wonderful man to be in the room with, but if your not in the room people would question--is he thinking of MY interests. He had a complex where he was stubborn and at times arrogant. He made a lot of friends, but he made a lot of enemies. Look at culture at that time--worthless junk. The relics of that era are mishoginied and course. He was an actor--resolute on camera. But if you look behind the scenes you see he was a tired man--who's days were not filled with the ambitions he harbors. Claims are widely exaggerated and things he is said to of done primarily happened on there own accord. But, I will stop here because any complex character cannot be summed in one paragraph."

This entire part of your paragraph attacks Reagan's personality. I did not think the debate would go into this retrospect. You say he wasn't a good man. You attack his personality and say he was a "tired man". I disagree with all of this. Find me one piece of evidence where he is "tired" or "stubborn" or "arrogant".
Please take a look at a few of these links that show what a great guys Reagan was.
Did you know Reagan was the first president to start saluting to the military? He had a great respect for the troops. http://capitolhilloutsider.com....
Look at his humor. https://www.youtube.com...

That is the end of my rebuttal.

To finish this debate I would like to say thanks for accepting and good luck. There is an endless amount of good that Reagan has done in his presidency that is not even mentioned in this debate. Reagan was a good president.
MettaWorldPeace

Con

I would like to thank you for your last round and this debate. I would also like to share a link that shows Ronald Reagan's closing speech http://youtu.be...

I would like to clear up a few problems you brought up. The first one is that my response was all opinions and you are absolutely correct, if you remember in the first round I was not alive when he was president so I am not familiar with the facts, which is why I hope there will be more debates with people who are familiar with them. If you want a good debate with facts--I refer you to one of my previous debates on Obama and Bush that you can see on my profile.

The other thing I must clear up is what I said about Alzheimer's, it is indeed a strange thing to say. I have a father who is battling Alzheimer's and it is a terrible disease. Let me explain what I believe Alzheimer's is before I go on. When someone with a brilliant mind gives it to people freely, and the people take, and they don't freely give back--it begins to waste. I knowis a very idiosyncratic definition--but take it as you might.

The first one is a particularity about my take--the second is more relevant to Ronald Reagan and his presidency--and I'll explain as follows using Reagans farewell address.

I would like to say his one liners are great and tactful, humorous and kind. This says something to me about him--that he was one to smooth things over, thinking long and hard about individuals and caring a great deal.

Unfortunately he didn't consider policy as much as he a president should. This is why he was a great person--but a mediocre president. And he could have been a great president, had the people around him have been better with policy. That I think cuts to the heart of his presidency--if the people around him did what they were supposed to--the idea people--the elite, he would have had a great presidency.

I feel I have discussed Reagan enough, because I want to reexamine his legacy at this point. Since the policies around him were terrible (as those sunbathers soaked up his light (my words not his)) tthe real economy--the lower income Americans found their incomes falling. There is a line in his speech where he talks about a "Shining City" that I felt he could dream of. From my little perch, I have the privilege of imagining it with him. Unfortunately policy makers had no clue what they were doing in those and the Bush years leading up to Obama. And I do want to talk about Obama--in comparison to Reagan. Obama is not a people person--he is an idea person (kind of like I am) and he is fantastic with policy--look at the Dream Act, Affordable Care Act, and one other that for some unassailable reason escapes my mind. But anyways one thing that unites those two presidents is their ability to think big. But the thing that I find most odd about Reagan lovers who love him for his integrity is Obama has the same sort. I would like to clear something up earlier--Reagan always thought about other people (so does Obama BTW). So I would like to conclude that Reagan was a great human being and he had flaws--as we all do. But, he was not as great of a president as he could have been if the people around him were greater. He may have had some control over that, which he might have missed-- but listen to this quote from the end of his speech, "I am warning of an eradication of the American memory that could lead to an erosion of the American spirit." He was warning us that we were losing something--all of us that he held dear, and it is sad and tragic that a man so great must end his life in Alzheimer's.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by MettaWorldPeace 1 year ago
MettaWorldPeace
I do not like poverty--hate it if you must--but taxes serves a purpose and communism would siderail the debate unffortunately.
Posted by syracuse100 1 year ago
syracuse100
Sorry, in my last round I said "Um, since when is hating communism, taxes, and poverty?" Forgot to add bad after poverty. So it should say "Um, since when is hating communism, taxes, and poverty a bad thing?"
Posted by MettaWorldPeace 1 year ago
MettaWorldPeace
Blaspheme=slander, bad things must be untrue if I am to blaspheme ;)-
Posted by Wylted 1 year ago
Wylted
Ronald Reagen is a God you bastard. How dare you blaspheme him.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
syracuse100MettaWorldPeaceTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Only Pro offered any evidence to support his/her position, so arguments to Pro. Only Pro had sources, so sources to Pro.