The Instigator
TranquilSpirit
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
the_banjo_sender
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Was Sandy Hook a conspiracy?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/4/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 383 times Debate No: 84538
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

TranquilSpirit

Pro

It came to my knowledge about two weeks ago that Sandy Hook was a conspiracy. I don't buy into these things lightly, so I began to do my research. At the beginning of my research, I felt without a doubt that Sandy Hook was real, and it was a tragedy of mass proportions. However, after hours and hours of research, I have come to change my opinion on the matter. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but from what I've learned, I'm leaning that way. I would like y'alls opinion.
the_banjo_sender

Con

I would be curious to hear your thoughts. Do explain further in your next round.

In my opinion, your thoughts are almost disgusting. How can you claim that Sandy Hook was a conspiracy? 20 students from ages 6 to 7 were killed. First graders slaughtered in the middle of the school day. Parents without the opportunities to even say good bye.

Be this as it may, I am interested in your conspiracy, and I am willing to hear it out and even possibly, if you are convincing enough, to change my mind.

But don't count on it.

Present your information well, and do your best to preserve human dignity.

VFD
Debate Round No. 1
TranquilSpirit

Pro

In my opinion, your thoughts are disgusting. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. First off, I mentioned that I don't buy into conspiracies. Second, I mentioned that I originally thought that the Sandy Hook shooting was a tragedy, and up until about two weeks ago, I didn't even know there was a conspiracy behind the matter. However, it was through hours upon hours of research on the matter, that I come to an alternate conclusion. I also said clear as day, "I'm not saying this didn't happen, but from what I've learned, I'm leaning this way." My opinion was based on research. Your opinion is based on lack thereof. Your profile even says that you believe in absolutes, such as absolute truth. Yet, you didn't even bother looking into the subject at hand before criticizing my opinion. You simply based it on the fact that the media told you "it happened." I'm glad you believe everything the media tells you as "absolute truth."
the_banjo_sender

Con

Oh boy. See, I could tell I would get a reaction from that disgusting remark. I am terribly sorry. I did not mean to insult you in any way, and all I wanted to do was express my distaste for people who believe that tragedies never occurred. I now see that you are not one of these people, but this debate comes right after one with someone who believed the Holocaust was a hoax. I'm sure you can see from where I am coming, but I do truly apologize for using such strong adjectives.

Anyhoo, I did, despite what you implied (all right... boldly stated), do some research, I just wanted you to explain to me your views on the matter. Seeing as how you didn't, I will base my argument off of what I have read, but if your theory is different, do complain. But quieter. Please.

I will assume we both saw the Sandy Hook Fully Exposed video. While making some convincing arguments, what the video makers did could hardly be called "factual." They did what many media outlets do nowadays and strung together a whole bunch of clips without properly explaining any particular instance. For example, the laughing dad of the apparently dead girl clip (Time: 8:34ish). The video claimed that the clip was the after the shooting, when in reality, it was nearly two weeks after, still time to be grieving, but enough time to have gotten over it to have a sense of humor. Also, isn't it convenient how he covers the clip with dialogue? I thought so.

Also, throughout the video, he claims things that no one could possibly know, such as the non-existence of certain medical personal or the lack of parentage of a given interviewee.

I don't know if you know believe that the shooting never occurred, but if you do, you need some serious facts to back up your claim.

After this hoax claim arose, there was a massive revolt from the communities of Sandy Hook. Paid actors don't care if people think it's a hoax a year later, but genuine parents who genuinely lost a kid? You can bet they'll fight back.

And finally (trump card), I know a victim of Sandy Hook. You know Natalie Hammond? She was a survivor of the attack. Mind you, my family does not know her family well, but my cousins/aunt/uncle know the Hammonds quite well. And let me assure you from a person closer to the shootings than most, IT HAPPENED. And I stick with my original statement. Anyone who believes the shooting never occurred needs to either present some huge block of mind-blowing evidence or shut... their... little... mouths...

Once again, I don't mean to offend anyone. I just feel very passionately about this whole subject. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
TranquilSpirit

Pro

First, let me make one point. In your first post, you specifically said, "But as it may, I am interested in your conspiracy, and I am willing to hear it out and even possibly, if you are convincing enough, to change my mind." Now, you are playing the "trump card," saying you know one of the victims. Also saying that we need to shut our little mouths. You basically changed your story, making all credibility of that argument, void. I know, because someone tried to tell me that the two WDBJ7 new anchors that were shot in Roanoke, VA was fake. However, I knew Adam Ward. That was my one and final argument, not my middle or last.

The evidence for Sandy Hook being faked, is there. It may not be, but through the evidence that I have seen, I just don't see that being the case. This being my evidence..

1.) Three donation websites had Sandy Hook donations pages set up three days before the shooting. The United Way was one of them. And I do not mean the Google cache dates, I mean the dates on the actual sites.
2.) A few other sites also did the same. Again, not the google cache sates either
3.) The first aerial footage of Sandy Hook Elementary School shows police swarming the school. However, it is not actually Sandy Hook, it is another school all together. Don't believe me, Google Earth it.
4.) The FBI also released the Connecticut crime statistics for 2012, and in Newtown, CT, it said there were 0. That's quite remarkable since 26 supposedly died in December 2012.
5.) What about the parents? Especially Robbie Parker. For example, when we walks out of the building laughing, sees the camera, and immediately tries to put himself into character and look as though he is crying. Also, all the interviews of the parents, showed no tears and the crying looked so staged. I understand that people cry themselves out. But for all of the parents to do this, and not one truly sob when discussing it, is ridiculous. I have two kids, and I would have sobbed for three months.
the_banjo_sender

Con

You think my credibility is shot. Brilliant. I... actually have no good argument for this. I'm looking back at my first argument and am feeling a little betrayed. I haven't the faintest idea what I was doing, first insulting you and then practically conceding in the first round. Hmmm... believe what you like. I don't know what to make of it.

Anyhoo, the evidence you provided matched exactly to the video I watched. Can we assume we watched the same video? That would make it easier. If you haven't seen this video, the link is at the end of this case.

This video is a classic example of some sicko trying to make it look like a national tragedy was a hoax. What I don't get is, what's the motive? But more on this later. Now, reasons why this video is not a valid source of fact. First, it's a mite bit suspicious that the "author" refuses to use his voice. Even random You tube gamers verbalize their views. This shows that the maker of the video is either suspicious or does not have the devise to put words to the video, putting suspicion upon its validity. Also, a lack of sighted sources makes this video hardly credible.

1.) A whole bunch of people who are not directly influenced by this event do not realize that there are, in fact, two Sandy Hook schools, one being the attacked elementary school, the other being a middle school. Even I made that mistake for a congress debate, taking size statistics from one instead of the other. Is it possible that you and the video made the same mistake? After checking things out, I have decided the video did. Whether you have or not... that's for you to determine.

2.) In regards to the other statistics, I don't know what to tell ya. Based off of what I can tell, your information is invalid. All of the statistics I've found support the Sandy Hook shooting. I don't know from where you got your statistics, but I can tell you that they are wrong.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by the_banjo_sender 1 year ago
the_banjo_sender
What insults, beyond the albeit shifty first round?
Posted by TranquilSpirit 1 year ago
TranquilSpirit
I think it's funny, that the only true rebuttal you have, is insulting someone. Which instead, refutes your own credibility as you can't have a proper conversation/debate with someone. You have constantly lied through your argument which further refutes you argument. I don't care if I lose this argument. It will be because they were already convinced it happened, not because you convinced them. You only make two points, against mine, and one of those was simply calling my points invalid, yet you gave not one bit of evidence for your defense. As for your second argument, about their being two Sandy Hook schools. That's what I said when I talked about the police swarming the wrong school. What does that have to do with anything? The shooting was at the elementary school, not the middle school. The media wouldn't have beat police to the seen. This was staged footage, which is why it aired as Sandy Hook's first footage across the nation when it was a completely wrong location.
Posted by the_banjo_sender 1 year ago
the_banjo_sender
Sheesh. Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed!

I did just as much research as you did, and seeing as all of the arguments you made were covered in this one video I saw, I decided to use it to base my argument off of. I fully supported my side, and I have no regrets. Besides, I think we should let the voting do the talking, don't you?

:)
Posted by TranquilSpirit 1 year ago
TranquilSpirit
@the_banjo_sender Are you serious? In Round 1, I specifically said that I did hours upon hours of research. I looked at evidence supporting each side equally. I didn't base my opinion on one insignificant video that you watched. I actually did research, not simply watching a video. You gave no supporting evidence for you claim, except that I was wrong. I may have no gave sources, but at least I backed my claim, unlike yourself.
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