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5 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

Water baptism is essential to salvation.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/9/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,227 times Debate No: 64864
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (24)
Votes (2)




I believe that the Bible teaches, water baptism is essential to salvation in a multitude of areas within the New Testament. Not water baptism alone but, it is required to become a Christian. Jesus said in John 3:5, that you must be born again of the water and of the spirit. He also said that you must believe and be baptized in order to be saved in Mark 16:16. There's nowhere in the Bible where an individual became a Christian by belief/faith only. However, the only thing that puts one into Christ is water baptism.


John 3:5 full verse
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Being born of the water isnt the same thing as being baptized. Check out verses 1-5

"1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

The topic was about being born from the womb. Jesus could be speaking about born of the water like being born of the womb of the fluids which occur during birth. Jesus then gives the analogy of being born of the spirit. Or jesus could be speaking of water in a cleansing way. Being born of water is being cleansed. The bible speaks of water figuratively many times. (Psalm 51:2,7; Ezekiel 36:25,Hebrews 10:22)

Mark 16:16 full verse

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

its uncertain if Mark 16:9-20 were originally in Mark. For core doctrine, we should have a verse which has no debate about it existing in the original text. But it doesnt say baptism is necessary for salvation. The last half says "but he that believeth not shall be damned" it says nothing like "He who believeth and is not baptized shall be damned". It means belief is necessary for salvation. The statement "Cats have fur" is true. THis doesnt mean the statement "A furless animal isnt a cat" is true. Like the statement "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" is true this doesnt mean "He that believeth and is not baptized isn't saved". It is a negative inference fallacy

My argument against it.

The bible repeatedly says work isnt necessary for salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 says
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith"and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God" 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Romans 4: 1-12 is all about how Abraham is justified by faith.
Debate Round No. 1


I'm under the impression that you are implying that Jesus answered Nicodemus's question saying, that basically Nicodemus was born of the water through his natural birth and, he also has to be born of the Spirit. If so, I agree with you there. Rather you do or not, that's where I stand.
Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus about water baptism in the text of those five verses.
In 1 Corinthians 15:46, Paul wrote,
" Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."
So I know that it's, first natural then spiritual. Nicodemus had his natural birth when he was born, and Jesus was telling him that now he has to get his spiritual birth. The question is, " How does a believer obtain his/her spiritual birth?" Well, Romans 6:3-5 says,
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Let's examine this text!!
In verse 3, Paul tells the Romans that those who were baptized INTO Christ, were baptized into His death.
Well in order to be born again, you would have to die first, so being baptized into Christ death first makes sense.
In verse 4, Paul says that we were buried with him. (Well a burial does come after death). By the way, immersion(baptism) mirrors a burial. Paul also said that we rose from the dead like as Christ to walk in NEWNESS of LIFE. So we know that after we were risen, we had a new life, you know, similar to a new birth.
In verse 5, Paul said that we were planted in the likeness of His death. Well we know Jesus died physically for sure but, the Romans were still alive, unless Paul was writing just to be writing. So, if they had been dead at some point and time like Paul said, then he must be referring to Spiritual death. Since the death was in the likeness of Jesus, that means Jesus had to have died physically and spiritually. Paul also said that we were in the likeness of His resurrection. Now, I know that Jesus physical body was resurrected but, as I stated earlier, the Romans hadn't died physically yet. That means that our resurrection/rebirth/second birth was spiritual like our death. Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death. Well we don't die physically when we sin, so this must be spiritual death.
As you can see, we are born again through baptism, which is a spiritual death, burial, and birth or resurrection. .

Now regarding Mark 16:16, I can't even believe that you would even try that one.
Jesus said what needed to be done, which was belief and baptism. Why does He have to tell one what not to do if He's already told them what to do, and what to do has circumstances that excludes the option of what not to do?? Jesus said that you must believe AND be baptized to be saved. He doesn't have to turn around and say that if you're not baptized then you won't be saved!!! For one, He doesn't have to because He is God!! Secondly, Why does he have to if a non-believer is not going to get baptized anyway???

Eph. 2:8-9
First of all, baptism isn't a work you can boast about. It's yielding to the will and way of the Lord. Paul was referring to works of merit. Which are works that one can boast about. You can't boast about God saving you. I would see if the Bible didn't say that you have to be baptized to be saved , and I said you did. That's not the case though!! God's word tells us that we must be baptized to be saved.
Now the Bible tells us in Genesis 6:8 that Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord because, Noah was a just man and he walked with God. Since he was considered just, I know that he was obedient to the Lord. Hebrews 11:7 says that by faith Noah built an ark to the saving of Him and his family. By faith? Well how did he get faith? Well, Romans 10:17 says, Faith cometh by hearing, by hearing the Word of God. So basically, God spoke, Noah Listened, and Noah obeyed. So clearly we can see that Noah obtained grace (favor) from the Lord, by faith, through his obedience of God's word. By the way, I do believe building an ark is a work.
I can say the same for Abraham because he offered up Issac by faith. God spoke, Abraham listened, and Abraham obeyed. Then, James 2:21 says that Abraham was justified by works when he offered up Issac. Now, Romans 4: 1-12 is implicating that Abraham was saved by faith. Well the Bible doesn't contradict itself so, it must mean that Abraham was justified by both, not just one.

Questions I Have:
What analogy of being born of the spirit did Jesus give?

Now you say that the Bible repeatedly says that works aren't necessary for salvation. So are you saying that we're saved by faith only?

Do we bury the living or the dead?

Can you show me where in the New Testament where a individual was promised,received, or was said to have received, a new life or second birth without baptism being involved?


You are changing your argument. First round you said nothing about what being born of the spirit. You are now saying a spiritual birth by baptism. This should seem off from the start. John 3:6 says

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

A baptism is a physical process. It is daft to say born of the spirit is spirit when it is physical. Spirit means

"a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting"

How do you baptism an immaterial thing with material water? It is as daft as saying "I got hit in the spirit with rock."

The text doesn't refer to baptism of water. Baptism into is about a public identification. Baptism into is in the new testament a few times

1 Corinthians 10:2: and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1 Corinthians 12:13: For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27: For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Baptism into isnt the act of baptism but the symbol of baptism. The icon you are being baptized with. The text is about the public affirmation of what you are saved into.

Mark 16:16

You did not talk about my argument that 9-20 is of questionable reliability and you didnt talk about my other argument either. I didnt say Jesus has to turn around and say if you're not baptized you are not saved I am saying you cannot infer from mark 16:16 that baptism is necessary. You are making a straw man fallacy. Think of my example. You cannot infer from "Cats have fur" that "A furless animal isnt a cat". Same principle. You are making a strawman and a negative inference fallacy.

My argument against it

You said "baptism isn't a work you can boast about. It's yielding to the will and way of the Lord."

Why cant you boast about yielding the will of the lord? It is quite conceivable for one to do so. Yielding to the way of the lord is a very boastable thing if someone is trying to do the holier than thou act. Thats not the most important part. Eph says "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith". Faith is a nonphysical act. How Abraham and Noah showed faith is irrelevant. What is important is that he was justified through faith. His works showed his faith but his works are contingent his faith is what matters.

The idea of being baptized is necessary for salvation is silly. Baptism doesnt do anything to your belief or do anything to make you love god. It is a symbol. It is absurd to think a God would send someone who believes in him, worships him, prays to him, preaches for him, loves him to burn in hell because he didn't get dipped in water. It is no the picture of a loving God.

"Now you say that the Bible repeatedly says that works aren't necessary for salvation. So are you saying that we're saved by faith only?"

"Do we bury the living or the dead?"

The dead obviously what does this have to do with the debate?

"Can you show me where in the New Testament where a individual was promised,received, or was said to have received, a new life or second birth without baptism being involved?"

The thieves on the cross.

Luke 23:39-43

39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren"t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!"

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don"t you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

43 Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

and the beggar

"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham"s side. The rich man also died and was buried."
Debate Round No. 2


How is that changing my argument? You assumed that I was referring to baptism when it comes to being born of the water. I just clarified my meaning because you had the wrong impression.

Yes baptism may be a physical process but it results in spiritual birth. When Jesus said that,"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit," He was still in the process of responding to the question Nicodemus asked him in verse 4 about being born a second time out of his mother's womb. Which anyone can clearly see, that Jesus is telling Nicodemus that you had your physical birth which was of the flesh, but I'm talking about your spiritual birth which is of the spirit. I see that you, like Nicodemus, don't understand these sayings of Jesus. The New Testament only records individuals being born again, having a new life, or being resurrected through baptism. Paul told the Romans that through BAPTISM, they had died and was resurrected. Now if the Romans hadn't died physically yet, what type of death, burial, and resurrection did they participate in?.

Who said anything about your spirit(immaterial thing) being baptized?

1 Corinthians 10:2 doesn't say INTO but instead it says UNTO.

How did the Corinthians get in Christ body in 1 Corinthians 12:13? Don't worry I'll answer that for you.
Acts 18:8 tells us that after they heard Paul preach, they BELIEVED and was BAPTIZED!!!!

The text is not about no public affirmation!! How do you figure?
The text clearly explains the purpose of baptism. I believe anyone who reads that text would agree.

Baptism into isn't the act of baptism but the symbol of baptism???? Where do you get this stuff from????? How is one being baptized into Christ only symbolic, when only after you're baptized are you in Christ??

Umm. What's questionable about GOD'S word? I ignored that on purpose.
How are you going to try and compare a statement of observation to instructions or demands, of Jesus at that????? incomparable and a poor example used to illustrate your claim or point you're attempting to make.. No, you cannot infer that "A furless animal isn't a cat" from someone saying that "Cats have Fur".
Now, read my example:
If I tell you that I will pay you $20 if you rake my grass, do I have to tell you that if you don't rake my grass I'm not going to pay you $20??? No, because it's understood that IF you rake the grass you get $20, so you don't get $20 if you don't do anything because in order to get the $20 dollars, you have to rake the grass!!! Seems fairly easily comprehensible to me!!

How can one boast about God saving them?? Yielding to the will of the Lord requires humility, which has no room for boasting. If God now saves everyone the same way, how can one boast about an act that's required of everyone??? Doesn't make sense!!
Now you say that how Abraham and Noah showed faith is irrelevant. Not true at all!!!
Hebrews 11:1 tells us that, Faith is the substance of things hoped for, evidence of things unseen. So, having faith is basically believing in something not seen whether it was promised or hoped for.
Well Hebrews 11:7 says, By faith Noah, being warned of God of things NOT SEEN AS YET, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. Hmm, so Noah believed that God was going to flood the earth(which was promised but unseen)(faith) and PREPARED(work) an ark to SAVE his house.
Then, Hebrews 11:17 says, BY FAITH Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, OBEYED; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. To make a long story short, By faith Abraham obeyed. Hmmmm... As you can see, one illustrates their faith by, God speaking(reading His word), Man listening(accepting His word), then Man obeying( works of obedience)

The idea of baptism being essential to salvation may be silly to you, but that's between you and God!!! Someone who loves him will keep his commandments(John 14:15), so they don't have to burn on the lake of eternal fire!!! Why don't you want to accept God's plan of salvation???? The Bible clearly teaches that:
You must first hear the Gospel.(Romans 10:17, Heb,11:6)
You must believe the Gospel.(John 8:24, John 3:16)
You must repent of your sins.(Luke 13:3)
You must confess Christ.(Matt. 10:32-33)
You must be baptized for the remission of your sins.(Acts 2:38, Matt.28:18-20, Gal.3:26-27, Mark 16:16)
Then you are to try to live faithful unto death.(Revelation 2:10)


Now you say that works aren't necessary for salvation and,"Yes," we are saved by faith only----------------THE BIBLE SAYS, James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Now you say that we bury the dead. Well, if baptism is a burial and it's done after one is born again or has new life as you say, then you're telling me, that you guys not only bury the living but you do it right after their new life starts . Now does that make any sense??

Lol... The thief on the cross, this one is my favorite!!!!
First of all, who's to say that he wasn't baptized? Matthew 3:4-5 tells us that John the Baptist baptized some of Jerusalem, All of Judea, and All the region around about the Jordan.
Secondly, Jesus had the authority to forgive the sins of whoever he wanted to (Mark 2:10), Which he did do for alot of individuals.
Third, Jesus told the same rich young ruler that you referred to, to sell all of his possessions and he would have eternal life. Now, if someone asked you how to become a christian, would you tell them that they have to keep all of the commandments and sell all of their possessions to be saved??? Let me answer that for you.. NO!!!
Also, the thief on the cross died before the cross and before the Great Commission was given to the apostles by Jesus. Jesus had to die first in order to receive the authority for the new covenant to begin. Hebrews 9:15-17 says,"
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Not only that but, the church hadn't even started yet and paradise isn't Heaven.

Now if water baptism isn't essential, why did the Eunuch, in the eight chapter of the book of Acts, request to be baptized in the middle of a trip in the desert where there was no one there for public affirmation??
Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Just incase you missed my new questions, here they are:

Now if the Romans hadn't died physically yet, what type of death, burial, and resurrection did they participate in?.
Who said anything about your spirit(immaterial thing) being baptized?
The text is not about no public affirmation!! How do you figure?
Why don't you want to accept God's plan of salvation????


Philosophybro forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by MarioWatsonBeasley 1 year ago
If you read my previous post, which was about four comments long, you will get an answer to your question. I believe the Bible but, ok.. You still haven't answered any questions. I understand that you can't, but you shouldn't deny yourself of understanding the truth because of your stubborn ways. Be more reasonable about the issue and try to refute my claims successfully with scripture. All iv'e given you was the Bible!! If, I've misinterpreted anything and you can give me a feasible interpretation, please do.. I would honestly love to hear it. I just want to follow truth. It's not fair to down-talk me and not answer any questions, nor successfully rebut my claims. Sounds like you're trying to bully to me.
Posted by cheyennebodie 1 year ago
I came out from Catholicism because they were famous for believing nothing. Your religion surpasses even them.
Posted by cheyennebodie 1 year ago
Where did Paul say anything about the time, 70 A.D. What does Jerusalem being destroyed have to do with healing today?

Faith is released Mark 11 :22-24.
Posted by MarioWatsonBeasley 1 year ago
Healing, right along with the rest of the spiritual gifts passed away in 70 A.D. when the Bible was complete and Jerusalem was destroyed. The time when Paul said they were to be done away with.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.(referring to teaching and learning again)

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
-Well that which is perfect has come and I know what you're probably thinking, but it's not Jesus. You don't refer to a Human as that, neither does the Bible.

We can read about that perfect thing in James chapters 1 and 2.
James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Since the New Testament teachings are the law of liberty, which we will be judged by, and it's complete and perfect, then there is no need for spiritual gifts any longer because Paul said that they were to be done away with remember???
Now, what I don't understand, is for folks that believe they speak in tongues, why do they speak them in the assembly with no interpreter and God said not to do it??
Faith is released and developed through reading, doing, and trusting God's word.
Posted by MarioWatsonBeasley 1 year ago
Now, these specific gifts I mildly defined, are all gifts that involved teaching. We can all know this by reading 1 Corinthians chapter 14, versus 26-31. Now, im going to post the whole passage. I'm going to cap lock the evidence that supports gifts being used to teach.
26 How is it then, brethren? WHEN YE COME TOGETHER, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a TONGUE, hath a REVELATION(prophecy), hath an interpretation. LET ALL THINGS BE DONE UNTO EDIFYING.

27 If any man SPEAK IN A UNKNOWN TONGUE, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that BY COURSE; and LET ONE INTERPRET.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.



31 For ye may ALL PROPHESY ONE BY ONE, that ALL MAY LEARN(must be being taught something), and all may be comforted.
The church began in 33 A.D., fifty days after Jesus was resurrected. The first letter wasn't written unto about 51-52 A.D., which was 1 Thessalonians. The Bible didn't come into its complete form until 70 A.D. So until then the early church only had the Law and the prophets. So the way they learned, as we read earlier, is through the teachings of the Holy Ghost, which taught through the spiritual gifts. Majority of the other spiritual gifts were used as signs to confirm the word of God which they taught or preached(Healing, working of miracles, discerning of spirits, etc.).
Will continue in next comment....
Posted by MarioWatsonBeasley 1 year ago
I believe that we both can agree that the Holy Ghost came with power to the apostles as promised by Jesus. Well Jesus also told the apostles that the Holy Ghost would teach them. Now the question is, how did the Holy Ghost teach? Well in the twelveth chapter of 1 Corinthians, Paul is writing about spiritual gifts. 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
-This means that they were for the common good; the spiritual gifts were to benefit others.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
-The word of wisdom was the doctrine of the gospel, communicated by inspiration, ... peculiar to the apostles, and enabling them to direct religious faith and practice infallibly."
-The word of knowledge is divine knowledge having reference to all things like the mystery hidden in the ancient Scriptures regarding the call of the Gentiles, the rejection of Israel, the salvation of all people through the faith and obedience of Christ, etc.
-Paul had this gift of knowledge.(! Corinthians 13:2)
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
-Gifts of prophecy included the ability to foretell future events,
-Divers kinds of tongues were different kinds of unknown languages that could be interpreted by a brethren
Will continue on next comment...
Posted by MarioWatsonBeasley 1 year ago
Still haven't answered any of my questions, I see...
The question that you asked was, "What do you believe about faith, healing, and speaking in tongues?"
I gave you my understanding of faith and my understanding of spiritual gifts. Where did the lifestyle of a believer come in to this??

You say that, "You never know what God is going to do", is the theme of the church of Christ. Can you explain please?

Lol.. I knew you were going to refer to the gift of knowledge. I see you don't quite understand the purpose of the spiritual gifts in the church. Well, during the first century, the early churches of Christ(Romans 16:16) did not have the written New Testament during the time that the church had just begun. Good thing is, Jesus promised the APOSTLES that they would be brought to remembrance of all things they had witnessed and taught all things necessary for eternal life.
John 14:26 says, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 Corinthians 2:13 says, "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Luke 24:49 says," And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high."
Acts 2:1-4 says, 1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Will continue in next comment, ran out of words....
Posted by cheyennebodie 1 year ago
I Corinthians is talking about church services, not the lifestyle of the believer. We are to leave church built up to handle an adulterous and evil world. Where sickness, disease , killing, stealing and destruction is waiting for us.Church should never be looking for ways to just lay down under these things.Like what you are living with." You never know what God is going to do " is the theme of your church.
Posted by cheyennebodie 1 year ago
All spiritual gifts have ceased. Like knowledge. It has passed completely away in your religious circles.

God says if we are Christ's then are we Abraham's seed and heirs of the promises of Psalms 103:3. Tell me, what day did healing pass away. There had to be a particular day in history that God said, " at midnight healing will be gone. So you all better get your healing today."

The bible says that Jesus bore OUR sicknesses and carried OUR diseases. He bore every sickness and every disease known to the mind of satan, and you honestly think he did all that just for a few people at the time.

You are referring to the 13th chapter of 1 Corinthians, are you not? And what does James 1:25 have to do with what we are talking about?You need to read chapters 12,13,14 of 1 Corinthians, not just one verse. Jesus said, " if you continue in my word, you will be disciplined like me, then you will know the truth, and that truth will make you free.

You answered it for me. Two witnesses is all that is neede3d to establish a truth.Paul said he would that ALL spoke in tongues. I have found that the bible is so simple you need help to misunderstand it. And there are whole denominations that serve that purpose.

You told me what faith is. And how we get faith. How is faith released? How is it developed?
Posted by MarioWatsonBeasley 1 year ago
Oh yea, is there a reason why you haven't responded to my questions??
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Vote Placed by 9spaceking 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Con ff a round, so conduct to pro . Con wasn't able to refute all of pro's arguments, so arguments to pro.