The Instigator
sadolite
Pro (for)
Winning
24 Points
The Contender
kenito001
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

We are far worse off now as tax payers than we were before the American Revolution

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/5/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,131 times Debate No: 8887
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (4)

 

sadolite

Pro

I started reflecting upon this countries independence from Great Britain back in 1776 and decided to do a little research on what were the reasons that lead to it.
Taxes were not at the top of the list. It was the refusal of self governance by Britain that was the main reason. None the less if we were going to have a revolution to over through our current gov't there are endless reasons to, in addition to just crippling endless taxes.
There were very few taxes imposed by Britain before the revolution. The people alive in those days heads would be spinning and would be chopping heads off in public squares if they had seen such taxation as we see today. They would also be stupefied by the level of Govt interference imposed by our current Govt with regards to states rights. Our current gov't is a tyrannical oppressive dictatorship compared to great Britain before 1776.

Taxes levied on the colonies before the American Revolution:

1764 Sugar Act:
Parliament, desiring revenue from its North American colonies, passed the first law specifically aimed at raising colonial money for the Crown. The act increased duties on non-British goods shipped to the colonies.

1765 Stamp Act:
Parliament's first direct tax on the American colonies, this act, like those passed in 1764, was enacted to raise money for Britain. It taxed newspapers, almanacs, pamphlets, broadsides, legal documents, dice, and playing cards. Issued by Britain, the stamps were affixed to documents or packages to show that the tax had been paid.

As far as i can tell that's it.

Taxes under our current Govt:

Here is a list of all gov't agencies that our current govt imposes taxes to pay for:

http://www.usa.gov...

Each of these agencies act as independent taxing agencies by way of budget increasers. These agencies never reduce spending and are never eliminated. If one takes the time to look at this endless list, nearly 3/4 of them could be completely eliminated as they have nothing to do with the "Public Welfare" what so ever.

We are being taxed to death by the never ending creation of federal agencies. No less than 12 new federal agencies have already been created by the current gov't in the last 6 months. There are 12
new CZAR's, each with its own unlimited budget.

Good luck to my opponent in arguing we are better off now as tax payers than before the revolution.

Sources:
http://open.salon.com...
http://townhall.com...
http://informpeople.blogspot.com...
kenito001

Con

The AFF clearly defines "We are far worse off now as tax payers" as the level of taxation determining the detriment of society. I disagree with the framing of his argument.

The definition of "We are far worse off now as tax payers" must be measured economically. Before the American Revolution, taxation funded an Imperialist government that operated the American colonies but did not use government spending to benefit the colonists. Using simple cost-benefit analysis, because today taxes fund the federal government on behalf of the American constituency we are de facto better off now as tax payers. Whether we pay more taxes (or not) because the benefit received from taxes is much higher than it was then the NEG stands.
Some examples of benefit received (or external benefits): public parks, public education, federal welfare, Social Security, Medicare.

The AFF misinterprets the rallying call of "taxation without representation" as an objection to taxation. Instead, it was expressed frustration that the people did not have influence over their own governance, and because taxation was a symbol of operating a government, it was thus used as a simple cry to recruit the masses into the American Revolution.

Vote NEG.
Debate Round No. 1
sadolite

Pro

Bankrupting the US to pay for anything and everything to every whining individual in the US is not a benefit. It is disastrous. This country now barrows money to pay interest on already borrowed money that still has yet to be paid back this means we as tax payers are paying interest on interest. That means there is no money and my taxes don't go to anything except interest on borrowed money. The Federal reserve now counterfeits worthless money and devalues the dollar every day. The federal govt does not collect enough taxes to even operate the federal govt taxes to even operate and pay for all of it's mandates for one month in an entire fiscal year. The other 11 months is borrowed from foreign nations. This money of course will have to be paid back with interest further increasing the cost of everything exponentially. This country now pays more in interest every year than all of the budgets combined in the entire history of the US.

Interest on national debt (Not part of fiscal year budgets) 412 billion per year and rising as nothing is being paid off. The govt barrows money to pay this interest on borrowed money this figure will triple over the next 5 years at the current rate of borrowing.

2007 revenues............ +2.4 trillion 2007 expenditures -2.8 trillion plus the -412 billion interest plus the stimulus plan -876 billion plus the interest on the 876 billion. Trillion dollar deficits expected for at least the next 5 years if foreign countries are stupid enough to lend the US Money. Our children will suffer and their standards of living will be substantialy less than ours.

At least we didn't owe any money and didn't destroy our children's futures before the revolution. This country is going to go bankrupt at the current level of spending, this is simple math and economics 101. There will be no money for anything, none of the things my opponent lists. Not only do we pay twice and three times as much for everything that our gov't provides but we also support more than just one country as we did before the revolution. Now we owe dozens and dozens of countries money that can never be paid back except for the fact that the federal reserve just prints worthless money.

We are far worse off>
kenito001

Con

kenito001 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
sadolite

Pro

I will give con another chance, as I have forgotten to make a rebuttal in the past due to other more important life responsibilities.
kenito001

Con

kenito001 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
sadolite

Pro

So much for second chances. I reaffirm my resolution.
kenito001

Con

kenito001 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by sadolite 7 years ago
sadolite
Not much of a debate.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by tmhustler 7 years ago
tmhustler
sadolitekenito001Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by LadyPamela 7 years ago
LadyPamela
sadolitekenito001Tied
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Vote Placed by sadolite 7 years ago
sadolite
sadolitekenito001Tied
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Vote Placed by s0m31john 7 years ago
s0m31john
sadolitekenito001Tied
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Total points awarded:70