The Instigator
anonymouse_student
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
htennis
Con (against)
Winning
16 Points

We do not need to go to school as much as we are forced to.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
htennis
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/3/2012 Category: Education
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,091 times Debate No: 27762
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (4)

 

anonymouse_student

Pro

Okay this is my first debate, but i'm just going to state my opinion:
I'm in 8th grade and I know a lot of people are going to write a list of reasons why we should go to school, but I don't mean we shouldn't go to school I just think our school system should change. I am hoping that I can actually start something and make this topic big enough to spark a debate in the school district. I am just going to go through my class schedule and give you my reasons why or why not for each of the subjects we have to take:

*Science: of course we have to take it

*Physical Education: helps us stay healthy and fit

Spanish/French/Foreign Language: At my school they make us take one foreign language. I do not understand why we need to learn how to speak different languages, I played on a baseball team where all 5 of my coaches only spoke Spanish, 3 of our star players only spoke Spanish, and 5 other players could only speak broken English. Me and my cousins were the only ones who spoke English, we were just fine using hand signals to understand what they meant, and our team went 14-0 winning the league championship and the division championship. We have new technology now a days like GOOGLE TRANSLATE and many other translating devices. As far as knowing the
Spanish culture just in case you go on a trip to a Spanish country, if I really wanted to learn the culture of country I would probably just read a short paragraph on there culture and any special events or holidays around the time I was going to be there.

*ELA: of course we need part of ELA but as far as stuff like rhetorical terms, logos ethos, pathos, etc. That is just unnecessary. There is a lot of stuff on the borderline between being needed or not but when are we ever going to need this?

*Math: obviously we need math

*Religion: I go to a catholic school so this is important

Art: some people say we need art to open up our minds and creativeness, but a teacher making us draw a specific thing, do some shading, or stay in between the lines isn't going to matter to me in 5,6, or 7 years. If they want us to open up our imagination they should create a new subject just for that.

Music: okay I could write so much here, I go to a Catholic school so I don't know if public schools have to take music, but it really is a waste of time. Do I really need to go into why we shouldn't have to take it.It's really just a waste of time.Point Blank

*Technology: some tech. classes are probably different all we really do is practice typing and he teaches us new soft-wares to use, (most of which us teens and preteens already know about).

SOCIAL STUDIES/ History: I have saved this for last for a reason. I could write a lot about this as well, but just to sum it up, IT IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME..... when In my life am I going to need to know when the battle of Bunker Hill was, or when the U.S. gained Alaska.....NEVER....Maybe we should forget about our past and focus on the future and on the 1st day of school my S.S. teacher said we take it so we can learn from our mistakes in the past... REALLY if I was going to become president or senator one day then yeah maybe I would take History In college while I'm going to Harvard or Yale but as of right now I don't care who Invented the light-bulb. Don't get me wrong a few interesting facts here or there can be interesting but taking a class about it everyday is torture.
htennis

Con

I accept.

Thank you, PRO, for providing this debate, and thank you to any voters.

I'm assuming PRO means that we do not need school that much (timewise) so I will argue against that.

Definition: school- an average American public school

First, let me go subject-for-subject off of PRO.

Science: concedes importance
PE: concedes importance
Foreign Language: You say that foreign languages are not important and that Google Translate could be used. You also state that if one were to go to Spanish, they could learn from a paragraph or such.
However, Google Translate does not work that well to translate entire sentences, and the grammar is mostly incorrect. Thus one should just learn a language. However, English first-world countries are spoiled in the fact that they think everyone should know English. However, Mandarin Chinese is the #1 spoken language and Spanish is the #2. Also, Kids in China take English AS ONE OF THEIR CORE SUBJECTS. You cannot learn everything off of a paragraph and being stuck in Spain not knowing any Spanish is always an awkward feeling.
ELA: concedes importance of certain aspects
It is only at the discretion of the teacher to choose what aspects of ELA to focus on. Grammar and writing, which I'm sure you touch on a lot, are very important in one's life.
Math: concedes importance
Religion: concedes importance
Art: students are not required to take art art (probably thought of as drawing, painting, etc.) Web Design, Debate, and Music are forms of art that are accepted.
Music: again, students not required to take art
Technology: not required
History: It helps us understand how society came to be and helps us understand why certain things are the way they are (1). Who invented the lightbulb is important because people give credit where credit is due and the lightbulb changed the way we live. Again, not saying you are spoiled are anything, but this is a typical first-world country thought- that the world was just set out for us.

Therefore, we should not cut any subjects.

Argument 1) People would have less incentives to become teachers. Teachers only get paid per class they teach. The average teacher salary in California was $67,871 in 2011 (2). Most teachers teach six classes, and you're talking about a one-two period cut (can you please specify?); that's a 1/6-1/3 pay cut. Teachers do put up with low salaries to get a chance to change the next generation, but there's a time when a line has to be drawn.

Thank you.

(1) http://www.historians.org...
(2) http://www.sacbee.com...
Debate Round No. 1
anonymouse_student

Pro

Thanks for your feedback,

Well starting off with art, music, and technology, in middle school we are required to take these and besides technology (which helps us learn to use new technology we now have) these classes should be extracurricular and not needed.

As far as foreign language goes I really think: yeah It should be required in middle school just so you are given a base of the language, just in case of any "emergency" situations, but as far as having to take a language in all 4 years of high school(Spanish 1 for two years & Spanish 2 for two more years) that should also be an extracurricular activity.

History: you are right we should give credit where credit is due, but taking a test on the U.S. purchasing Alaska or whatever just doesn't make sense. In 5-9 years when i'm in or out of college stuff like this is not going to matter to me unless i'm on jeopardy. There is a quote that says forget about the past and learn from the future. or something like that, if anything we should be learning about our war veterans, our current president, the current government, that's whats going to help us.
THE U.S. is one of the "DUMBEST" countries on earth, don't you think it's because we are learning about stuff over a hundred years ago...the world/country is changing and we should adapt our schools to teach about it as it changes.Don't you think it's time for the school system to change??
htennis

Con

His own arguments which he does not extend no longer matter in this debate.

I defined school as an average American public school. He did not dispute this definition, therefore, that is the definition.

To graduate an average American public school, all one needs to do is take 1 year of art- and no music and technology. The student also needs to take two years of foreign language. These years will only cover the basics and are not excessive, like PRO claims they will be.

Onto history. He brings up that we need to forget our past and focus on the future. I have several responses to this.
1) There is only a future if we have a past and a present. Therefore the past is important.
2) We don't know what to do if we didn't have a past. George Washington set a precedent by stepping out of office after two terms.
3) Always expand your horizons. Who says you won't become president or senator one day? Also, a broad knowledge of little tidbits makes one seem smarter than he actually is.
4) He says America is dumb and then proposes to cut school. Ok? His credibility just shot right out the window.
5) He says America is dumb yet provides NO OTHER solution to fix this problem other than cutting school.

Argument 1) He doesn't respond to the argument that cutting schools will not encourage people to become teachers. Let me expand. Currently, a teacher's salary is low. People will only become teachers if they love working with children so much that that overcomes to salary. Eventually, as school gets cut, the salary becomes so low that teachers will not be willing to take that much of a salary cut (1/6 or 1/3) to remain a teacher. Thus, the best teachers get thrown out and we are stuck with new, untrained teachers. He says America is currently dumb. Implementing is plan is not helping this cause; it actually hurts the cause.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
anonymouse_student

Pro

Well okay, I don't know maybe there is a different curriculum where I live as far as the classes you need t take to graduate, but even with what you said about you will only learn the basics of a foreign language is not true depending on what you mean by basics:
I already learned my name, how to greet other people, how to tell date, time and the weather, how to say the colors of something, how to say body parts, I can describe every single room In my house, I can ask someone or tell someone to go somewhere, classroom supplies, how to order food, etc. ...do I even need to go on?(this is only 7th and 8th grade stuff and unless Spanish is going to get easier I don't think we will be learning the basics. I can already carry on at least a 20 minute conversation just with someone in Spanish. Also stuff like being able to describe my room In Spanish isn't going to help me in my life.

In History I agree that some people just might end up in the government one day, but I know for a fact that I will not. I believe that taking History should be a choice whether we take it or not in high school.

By the topic: We do not need to go to school as much as we are forced to. I did not mean we should cut school. I mean the school system should change. People wonder why we are one of the dumbest countries and I think it's because we are being taught the wrong stuff.

What I say the school system should be like: Elementary school should stay the same.

Middle School:(where I live) we should not need to take Art and music as they are a waste of time in which we could be learning valuable information.

High School: We should be able to choose between classes like: History, Economics, Government classes like that for which best suits us. I am a great student I'm on Honor Roll but social studies is probably my worst subject and I know I won't take a class like it in College. On the other hand a class like business marketing or economics I will probably be good at, but I won't know until I get to college because I can't try it in high school.

I think we should get a little more freedom to choose our classes in high school because most people start to get an Ideal of there strong classes and what they are going to purse In there lives. Most of the stuff I'm going to learn in high school is just going to go in one ear and out the other because I won't have to take classes like it in college... therefore making part of school a waste of time.
htennis

Con

None of his arguments support his side of the topic. He says that there is a different curriculum, but doesn't provide one so we are using the California A-G requirements to graduate high school.

He says he already learned his name, etc. Well, he's taken two years of Spanish already. By definition, we need to take two years of Spanish to get the basics. Therefore, take two years, regardless of when.

He says that he's not going to end up in the government. Ok, maybe he knows this, but to take history out of the curriculum means that our government is screwed for the future because no one needs to take history.

He says the school system should change but doesn't provide a plan of action. To evaluate a debate, one needs to use Comparative Worlds, which basically compares the PRO and CON worlds. PRO's world is unclear and muddy. Therefore, you cannot vote for him. He doesn't clarify what the resolution is asking before Round 3.

His plan of action is the choose classes. In that case, no one would choose certain tough courses and the teachers that taught that course would be out of a job.

Why I Have Won:
1) He has BOP yet doesn't clarify the resolution, deciding in the last speech that it means to choose your own classes. However, since Round 1, I have established that PRO means cutting school. I prove why that is bad with Argument 1.
2) He drops Argument 1. Therefore, our education system will get worse if we affirm.
3) He uses a lot of personal examples. Not saying I don't, but his whole case is based on personal examples while at least some of mine is based on logistics.

Thank you and vote wisely.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
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Posted by baseballkid 4 years ago
baseballkid
"Maybe we should forget about our past and focus on the future." dude. We must learn from our past. if we forget things like the holocaust we are bound to repeat them.
Posted by yasmine8000 4 years ago
yasmine8000
My opinion on this debate, I believe the real issue is not necessary the amount of hours being spent in school but the environment rather. Children are forced to spend 8 hours a day sitting in a classroom being forced to absorbed isolated facts which has no relevance on their day to day lives. I believe that if school was just more impacful then students wouldn't have to complain about the length of time they have to spend in school. I just recently finished high school and for the most part I feel as if I didn't really learned much, and is this the feeling that the education system wants to leave students feeling. This feeling is also shared by others as well, given this what needs to be done is that more focus should be placed on the conscious effort to make school, classrooms much more inflectional. I have had classes which I was excited to attend and made learning fun, because I was blessed for a experienced teacher who knew what she was doing and knew the topic. Often I see in schools, teachers being assigned classes to where they have no business teaching. I understand its not their fault if they don't know the material and just give out textbook work. But what this does is take away the enjoyment of learning and the potential one could develop in the course. My stand is that the education system is failing to succeed on its objection.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by DeFool 3 years ago
DeFool
anonymouse_studenthtennisTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: The S&G skills presented in this contest make an ironic, and convincing argument in support of more education. (I want to congratulate Pro for initiating and completing this debate.) Concessions on important aspects of the debate win the Convincing Arguments score for Con. Sourcing, a tool that went unused by Pro, must be awarded to Con.
Vote Placed by emospongebob527 3 years ago
emospongebob527
anonymouse_studenthtennisTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Countering TMR's 4 points he didn't verify on.
Vote Placed by GorefordMaximillion 3 years ago
GorefordMaximillion
anonymouse_studenthtennisTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con simple makes better arguments. This debate could be done again with a different outcome!
Vote Placed by The_Master_Riddler 4 years ago
The_Master_Riddler
anonymouse_studenthtennisTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's supposed arguments didn't support his side of the debate.