The Instigator
TheRussian
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
queencoop
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

We have been visited by extraterrestrial beings

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/13/2016 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 385 times Debate No: 89619
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

TheRussian

Con

My opponent will be arguing that we HAVE been visited in the past by extraterrestrial beings. He has sole BoP to prove this claim.

Questions can be answered in the comments.

Feel free to present your opening arguments in the First Round.

No new arguments may be presented in the last Round.
queencoop

Pro

Thank you, I would love to argue this! I will refrain from opening arguments in this round for the sake of stating my position.

I will argue that we have been visited in the past by extra terrestrial beings.

(BTW- what does Bop mean?)
Debate Round No. 1
TheRussian

Con

" I will refrain from opening arguments in this round for the sake of stating my position."
The reason I suggested that you present your arguments in the opening round is so we can get it started quicker. I have no arguments to present as there isn't really any way that I can PROVE that we've never been visited by extraterrestrials. I will explain this a bit further below as I explain BoP.

"what does Bop mean"
BoP is Burden of Proof. Since you accepted the debate under the condition of having sole BoP, that means only you have to prove something. I, in this debate, don't have to present any arguments of my own but can try to rebut yours. You must present arguments in order to fulfill your Burden of Proof to prove that we have, in fact, been visited by extraterrestrials. If you think about it, it doesn't make sense for me to have Burden of Proof as there's no way I can prove that we've never been visited by extraterrestrials. It's the same if you said that there is an invisible, intangible monster behind me and asked me to prove that I don't have a monster behind me. I'm sorry if this explanation is sub-par and I will gladly discuss this further in the comments if I haven't managed to explain it properly. Essentially, YOU are making a positive claim, therefore YOU must prove it. In this debate, I don't have to prove anything.

Please present your arguments.
queencoop

Pro

Aliens.
It is such a controversial word isn't it? Some hear it and simply think it is pure fiction. However, most people come to the conclusion that aliens could exist, and we just haven't found them yet. But I am not here to discuss these common beliefs, I simply want to introduce you to a more wild theory. Not only do I think aliens are real, but I think we have already met them.

To believe such an illogical theory, I need some pretty logical evidence. So my "logical" evidence with be based around these simple topics: UFO sightings, ancient civilizations having advanced technology way beyond their time, and similarities between civilizations that (during that time) could never has possibly communicated.

There are thousands of fake UFO sightings reported every year, but what if some of these sightings were real?

Most of the time the sightings are said to be mistaken as things such as 'military equipment being tested'. However during WWII this was not the case, because the military itself was alarmed. In February of 1942 unknown objects in the sky were spotted by both citizens, and the military. As National Geographic described it, " Then, anti-aircraft batteries spotted what witnesses later described as swarms of objects flying at various altitudes, at speeds of up to 200 miles per hour. Fearing that the city was under attack by the Japanese, they fired 1,400 rounds of ammunition at the bogeys. But apparently, none of them hit anything, because no wreckage subsequently was found."

Initially believed to be an attack from Japan, the military immediately open fired on the aircraft. None of the fired bullets brought down the flying object, and many people are left to speculate why. Could it be because the technology was to fast and advanced for our military tactics? We will never know for sure, but this was truly a strange event. If this was a UFO sighting, could some of the other "claimed sightings" be more than a false accusation. And if so how long have these UFO visits been going on?

Puma Punku is a perfect example of a civilization inexplicably advanced for its time (existing at around 400 BC). This site is best known for its massive precisely and geometrically placed stones.

The project was so advanced that it would be a difficult task for us today to accomplish. "Not even a razor blade can slide between the rocks. Some of these blocks are finished to 'machine' quality and the holes drilled to perfection. This is supposed to have been achieved by a civilization that had no writing system and was ignorant of the existence of the wheel. Something doesn"t add up." Just like every other situation we will never be sure, but could it have been possible this civilization was helped by outsiders? Perhaps even extraterrestrial outsiders? How did these primitive civilizations acquire the knowledge and technology to accomplish this?

To finish off I would like to present this mystery: why do we find advanced similarities in civilizations, that existed during the same time, but could not possibly have communicated these shared similarities?

For example "Ancient metal clamps discovered on megaliths, temples and other prehistoric monuments worldwide are one of the greatest unsolved ancient mysteries of all time. Why would the builders use or need a small metal clamp to hold large stone blocks in place? How did this technology spread to ancient Egypt, Pre-Columbian Peru and Cambodia thousands of years ago? These countries are separated by thousands of miles. Who taught our ancestors how to use this technology?"

It seems illogical to tribute these unexplained events as from aliens.

However it is illogical in the most logical way...(kind of confusing right?).

Confusing but true, if aliens were to come here what else do you think they would do? Most likely exactly what we would do, share and exchange knowledge.

So why do we think an alien affiliation is so illogical. Because in the end.....

It logically makes sense.

Source:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com...
http://www.amusingplanet.com...
http://www.messagetoeagle.com...

***Thank you so much for this debate! Sorry i was confused at first. Also sorry for spelling I was in a rush.***
Debate Round No. 2
TheRussian

Con

I thank my opponent for his arguments.

He first describes the incident known as the "Battle of Los Angeles". While it is quite the curious incident and it's easy to jump on it as absolute proof of extraterrestrials, I think it really needs further examination. First off all I'd like to note that while his source does claim that the objects were supposedly moving at 200 mph, this can be nothing more than a wild guess. Not only was there no way for the actual speed of the objects to be measured, but even if a person was looking at the objects it would be very unreasonable to trust their evaluation of the speed of the object due to the panic as well as distance between an observer on the ground the the flying objects.

In 1983, the Officer of Air Force History concluded that the most likely explanation of this incident was as simple as meteorological balloons causing panic and setting off the event. This also explains my opponent's second point (about no wreckage being found) as balloons are capable of taking damage from anti-air rounds without necessarily being destroyed as a plane or rigid flying object would be.
http://www.ibiblio.org...

Overall there seems to be a lack of legitimate evidence that shows these objects to be anything of non-Earthly origin. If my opponent could provide evidence that these objects were indeed UFOs or something of the sort, then it would be worth discussing.

My opponent's entire second point is essentially that we can see certain very advanced aspects being shared among civilizations and this should be attributed to assistance from extraterrestrials. First of all, virtually ancient civilization can be seen to have built some amazing things that seem "ahead of their time", so is my opponent suggesting that every civilization was visited by aliens? On a side note, it doesn't make sense to me personally that aliens would come to Earth to...show people how to carefully place rocks? In the example of Puma Punku that my opponent brings up, why didn't the aliens perhaps show them "the wheel" instead, which seems much more useful? The "sharing of knowledge" that my opponent describes seems to be strangely specific, and nearly useless to humans.

Even though my opponent has only provided one example, I agree that there are remarkable similarities between ancient civilizations. However, I feel like these similarities can be explained by "Earthly" means. I mean, we're all people after all, so if presented with the same challenge and similar resources, it seems pretty logical that people would come up with similar solutions. All my opponent has really done in his second point is state that ancient civilizations had some interesting similarities. He then provides extraterrestrial interference as a solution. Where is the connection though? My opponent has done very little (if anything) to show why it is extraterrestrial visit that is the answer to this question.

"...if aliens were to come here what else do you think they would do? Most likely exactly what we would do, share and exchange knowledge."
I actually disagree here. If we look at human history we see that pretty much any time a more advanced civilization come across a less advanced one, there isn't much "sharing of knowledge" as much as conquering. Why give knowledge to the lesser civilization when they can be conquered, enslaved and robbed of resources? This is exactly what we see pretty much any time in human history (such as when Europeans came across Native Americans).

I curiously await my opponent's response.
queencoop

Pro

queencoop forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
queencoop

Pro

Thank you so much I enjoy this debate!

"In 1983, the Officer of Air Force History concluded that the most likely explanation of this incident was as simple as meteorological balloons causing panic and setting off the event. "
-Yes, but the government will come up with an explanation for anything. The balloons would have also had to fly over mountains, and it is very unlikely (given the distance of where they would have came from) that this is possible. But of course, all we can ever do is speculate.

"If my opponent could provide evidence that these objects were indeed UFOs or something of the sort, then it would be worth discussing."
-If i could prove they are UFOs then we wouldn't be having this argument. But I can point you to a former Area 51 worker, who claims the US has worked on them before. (Read Here: http://www.techtimes.com...)

" First of all, virtually ancient civilization can be seen to have built some amazing things that seem "ahead of their time", so is my opponent suggesting that every civilization was visited by aliens?"
-No because not every civilization is ahead of their time. The expression "ahead of their time" means that the other civilizations at that time were far less advanced. So could other beings have taught the advanced civilizations? Maybe.

" On a side note, it doesn't make sense to me personally that aliens would come to Earth to...show people how to carefully place rocks? In the example of Puma Punku that my opponent brings up, why didn't the aliens perhaps show them "the wheel" instead, which seems much more useful?"
-Not to show them to place rocks, but show them the technology that can do so. During that time temples were common and it makes sense that they would use to knew tools to make some kind of temple area.

"My opponent has done very little (if anything) to show why it is extraterrestrial visit that is the answer to this question."
-For example China for the longest time thought they were the only civilization on earth, so why do we find specific similarities between China and other civilizations that are so far apart. If alien visitors came, it is possible they spread some of the other ideas during this time. Ideas that these civilizations couldn't have acquired otherwise.

"I actually disagree here. If we look at human history we see that pretty much any time a more advanced civilization come across a less advanced one, there isn't much "sharing of knowledge" as much as conquering."
-Very valid point, but why are we reaching out and trying to find aliens today? Are we trying to find aliens to conqueror them? No, we want to share knowledge between the civilizations. So what if they are doing the same?

Sorry I am in a huge hurry (once again) and have many grammar errors. Please excuse the messy format and grammar.

Thank You for this debate! I look forward to the next round!
Debate Round No. 4
TheRussian

Con

" The balloons would have also had to fly over mountains, and it is very unlikely (given the distance of where they would have came from) that this is possible."
I'd appreciate it if my opponent provided a source for this claim, perhaps a link to a map.

"If i could prove they are UFOs then we wouldn't be having this argument."
Well yes of course haha, but I don't see at this point why UFO is a more plausible alternative to, for example, weather balloons. If you provide a source to back up your claim above, then this could be a step in the right direction for your argument.

"But I can point you to a former Area 51 worker, who claims the US has worked on them before. "
Alright, so you're now doing something to prove that it could've been a UFO, BUT this is strongly counter-acting your argument of trying to prove EXTRATERRESTRIAL origin. Your argument (and testimony) is evidence that even if it was a UFO or something of the sort, that it was still of Earthly, human origin.

"No because not every civilization is ahead of their time. The expression "ahead of their time" means that the other civilizations at that time were far less advanced. So could other beings have taught the advanced civilizations? Maybe."
Perhaps, but I still haven't seen why advancements are results of extraterrestrial interference in human affairs.

"For example China for the longest time thought they were the only civilization on earth, so why do we find specific similarities between China and other civilizations that are so far apart. If alien visitors came, it is possible they spread some of the other ideas during this time. Ideas that these civilizations couldn't have acquired otherwise."
But again, doesn't it seem more likely that humans being humans, came up with similar solutions to similar problems?

"why are we reaching out and trying to find aliens today? Are we trying to find aliens to conqueror them? No, we want to share knowledge between the civilizations. So what if they are doing the same?"
An interesting question, but I think we don't reach to share knowledge as much as to satisfy our human curiosity. Indeed, I don't think that the meeting of two civilizations (human and alien) would be a cooperative one. One would probably be weaker than the other, and would probably be exploited.

So let's again sum up what we have. My opponent presented a source suggesting that the US has worked on something like UFOs. but doesn't this go against my opponent's point of extraterrestrial origin as we are seeing evidence that UFO-like machines are being made on Earth?

On the subject of the similarities between human civilizations, I think we can only speculate on the interference of extraterrestrials, but let's this about it this way.
1) It seems more likely that similarities came about by Earthly means, such as those I described.
2) If extraterrestrials visited and somehow managed to communicate and help the humans (instead of conquering them, for example), why such specific technologies? Why not tell the humans how to treat diseases or maybe even give weapons to help conquer other civilizations or some more advanced tool than the technique of rock carving? If extraterrestrials were advanced enough to come here, I imagine they would have some very interesting things to share (which we don't really see happening).
3) Seems strange that they would visit us in the past, tell us how to carve rocks (I'm using this over and over again just because I don't have much else to work with, please don't mind it I understand there are other interesting things that past civilizations were capable of) and then never show us anything "cooler".
4) Don't know why they would want to help us in the first place considering that we are disgusting creatures.

Anyways, thank you for the interesting argument and I look forward to seeing you on the debate battlefield once again!
queencoop

Pro

Hello again,
To provide a ballon link (which is below) I found a website that has combined all valid videos and information on the incedint. All the videos introduce the event and propose strengths and weaknesses of the theories. When it comes to the "balloon theory" they adress the issue I previously stated. Primarily you should watch the History Channel clip from one of its series show (they adress theory towards the end.)
https://stevenjohnhibbs.wordpress.com...

Bear with my while I explain the reason behind my madness. Yes, there are a lot of strange things that happen in this world, and naturally as people we seek an explanation. But is it valid to try to propose aliens are the cause? No, absolutely not. It's is completely crazy. It's a theory that science couldn't yet explain. Do me a favor however and keep an open mind. The same type of thinking is used in Philosophy (proposing possibilities that can't fully be validated by science.) So please consider my madness as you read.

"Alright, so you're now doing something to prove that it could've been a UFO, BUT this is strongly counter-acting your argument of trying to prove EXTRATERRESTRIAL origin. Your argument (and testimony) is evidence that even if it was a UFO or something of the sort, that it was still of Earthly, human origin."
- My bad, I should have explained my reasoning. What I am getting at is: If Area 51 does have an alien UFO, then that means we have been visited by aliens and the government has kept it a secret. If the government has kept that a secret, then what alien related things in the past may have been covered up also.

"But again, doesn't it seem more likely that humans being humans, came up with similar solutions to similar problems?"
- Absoloutely, but the situation I am referring to is the similarities in details of culture. By culture I mean architecture design, art, religious aspects, rituals, apperal, etc.

"So let's again sum up what we have. My opponent presented a source suggesting that the US has worked on something like UFOs. but doesn't this go against my opponent's point of extraterrestrial origin as we are seeing evidence that UFO-like machines are being made on Earth?"
- Not at all, it supports it. It shows that aliens may have been here, and are still influencing us. This being the same thing that possible could have happened to our ancestors in the past.

"Why not tell the humans how to treat diseases or maybe even give weapons to help conquer other civilizations or some more advanced tool than the technique of rock carving? If extraterrestrials were advanced enough to come here, I imagine they would have some very interesting things to share (which we don't really see happening)."
- Valid, but there is one flaw in this thinking. You assume they aliens are like us, that they have faced and are experienced with our same diseases. If they came here they would only be able to offer help in things, both the aliens and humans, are familiar with. I can only assume that building structures (houses, temples, etc.) is something both would have to do. So sharing the way they build things, could more likely be used in some way by the ancient humans.

"4) Don't know why they would want to help us in the first place considering that we are disgusting creatures."
-Haha indeed we are!

This was a very unique argument, I enjoyed it very much! Maybe one day we will debat again. Thank you so much!

**I am writing this in class, and in a rush so please excuse grammar mistakes**
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by TheRussian 1 year ago
TheRussian
You forfeit a Round when you don't answer in 72 hours. And yes, no worries
Posted by queencoop 1 year ago
queencoop
I'm sorry I just realized that for some reason it forfeited me out of a round. I have no clue why, but my apologies
Posted by MaxLamperouge 1 year ago
MaxLamperouge
Interesting. I agree with con, but im interested in what the debate turns out to be!
No votes have been placed for this debate.