The Instigator
nonprophet
Pro (for)
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The Contender
TheMaster_Debator
Con (against)
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0 Points

We must fight Christian extremests from making America a theocracy

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Voting Style: Open with Elo Restrictions Point System: Select Winner
Started: 5/16/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,923 times Debate No: 54789
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (28)
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nonprophet

Pro

First round is for acceptance only
TheMaster_Debator

Con

I accept because I think this will be quiet an easy debate :D
Debate Round No. 1
nonprophet

Pro


You know what’s scary?


In a recent poll, according to the Huffington Post, 34% of Americans are in favor of


Establishing Christianity as the official State religion in their state.



Do you see how dangerously close America is to becoming a Theocracy like Iran?


A theocracy is a government ruled by or subject to religious authority.



This is INSANE! Every time I turn around, there’s another assault on the separation of church and state.



“In God We Trust” on our money. “One Nation Under God” in our pledge.


The constant attempts to have Creationism taught in public schools, The repeated attempts to create laws against gay marriage and abortion based on the Bible. The ridiculous claims that evolution is “just a theory”. The attack on those who want to respect all religions by saying “Happy Holidays” instead of "Merry Christmas". The many displays of the 10 commandments or Nativity scenes in Court Houses and on public property. Politicians saying “God Bless America” after every speech. The actual prohibition of Atheists holding public office in many State Constitutions.



These are all attempts to make America a Theocracy.



Oh, what’s the harm, right? Most people are Christian anyway, right? The founding fathers were Christians, right?



No. Even if every American believed in Jesus Christ, that still wouldn’t be justification for a theocracy. Most of our founding fathers were Deists, NOT Christians.



Imagine if Christianity became the law of the land. We would be stoning unruly children to death and giving the death penalty to those who worked on the Sabbath!



Picture this: A convicted rapist stands before a judge to be sentenced. The Judge opens the Bible and reads Deuteronomy 22:28-29


“If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.”



He then orders the rapist to pay the father 50 ounces of Silver and sets a Wedding Date with the instructions that a divorce will never be allowed.



Is that the kind of country we want to live in? Is that what you want America to become?



Think about this!



What if there was a child that wanted to become a scientist and might one day find a cure for cancer…and the parents of that child pounded into his mind that Evolution wasn’t real and destroyed the chances of that child getting involved with real science. How much damage would that cause mankind? You couldn’t put a price on it.



This is the 21st Century. We as a nation need to embrace SCIENCE, not Theology!


Sure, I respect the Constitution and the freedom of religion. I’m not saying you can’t believe what you want. Sure….go pray at home, at church or even silently in school. Nobody is stopping you.


Yet, according to Kevin Fitzgerald of the Knights of Columbus Council 11091 in Ohio, “There are many examples of people trying to take Christianity and Christmas out of our daily lives”.


He expressed a concern for Atheist attempts to remove the 10 Commandments from public court houses and nativity scenes from public property,yet he expressed no concern for the separation of Church and State. His excuse was that “50 years ago, there would be a nativity scene in every town square”, as if getting away with it then, made it perfectly legal and Constitutional.



During the 1950’s, Americans were overly-frightened by the expansion of Communism.


Since the dictators of Communist countries removed religion in order to gain better power over their people, Americans tried to do the opposite by embracing religion.


During McCarthyism, “In God We Trust” was added to our money and “Under God” was added to the pledge of allegiance. Those things were not originally there. Because, of the fear of Communism, we made a giant leap towards a Theocracy.



The Knights of Columbus are selling magnets that say “Keep Christ in Christmas” as if there were some kind of "War on Christmas”. These magnets are another tool to bring America closer to a theocracy. Imaginary attacks on Christianity are not productive. Support for the separation of Church and State is not a war on any religion.



As we go further into the 21st Century, we, as a nation, have an opportunity to become an even greater nation then we already are. We can support the Constitution’s freedom of religion and, at the same time, uphold the separation of Church and State. There is room for both. If 34% of our citizens actually support us becoming a Theocracy, they should look closely at other countries like Iran and see how well that’s working out for them.



TheMaster_Debator

Con

Please show me this Huffington post article, I would really, really, really like to see it.

Secondly, I go to a Catholic High School and we learn that the universe was created by the Big Bang, we don't learn creationism. Even in theology we learn the universe start from the Big Bang. Your arguement is invalid.

Thirdly, you say we don't let Atheists hold office...what religion is Obama? He is Atheist!

Oh yeah, and in my theology class they teach us that there is nothing wrong with being gay. Once again I think you are pulling these facts out of nowhere.

We would also not kill those who worked on the Sabbath if we were a theocracy. Even in Jesus' times people were not killed for working on the Sabbath, after all Jesus worked and healed and preached several times on the Sabbath.

Next piece of BS info you said, "What if a child who would find a cure to cancer was forced to believe evolution wasn't real?"
First of all, evolution and and medical research are on two different branches of science, so already your arguement is invalid. Also, evolution is taught to be true in my Catholic school, by the church, and even by our church officials.

Also, you claim that the church and state are becoming one. There is a major separation between Church and state. My Catholic school doesn't receive any grants from the state, so tuition is like 4,000 per student and yet Public schools get an 8,000 dollar grant per student. My parents have to pay taxes for the public schools, and pay tuition to send us to Catholic schools even though we don't go to public schools. If anything, they make it hard for us to get a Catholic education! Not to mention that Churches still have to pay property taxes.

Also your final argument states "34% of citizens actually support us becoming a Theocracy" got any proof? I still want to see this article. None of my religious friends, teachers, or priests or even my pope want America to become a Theocracy so I bet that is just a load of BS

Also, Iran is ran by an Islamic Theocracy. The Title of this debate is concerning a "Christian Theocracy" so using Iran as a comparison is invalid.
Debate Round No. 2
nonprophet

Pro

OK...let's prove you wrong, one thing at a time:

"Please show me this Huffington post article, I would really, really, really like to see it."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

"I go to a Catholic High School and we learn that the universe was created by the Big Bang"
That's Catholic. The rest of the Christians go by the Bible, which says god created the world in 7 days.

"what religion is Obama? He is Atheist!"
Sorry, wrong again...he's a Christian
http://www.gallup.com...

"Oh yeah, and in my theology class they teach us that there is nothing wrong with being gay. Once again I think you are pulling these facts out of nowhere."
Again, you are taught in Catholic School. Look what other Christians say about being gay:
http://www.godhatesfags.com...

"We would also not kill those who worked on the Sabbath if we were a theocracy."
If America was a Christian Theocracy, the laws would all come fro the Bible.
"For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death." Exodus 35:2

"evolution and and medical research are on two different branches of science, so already your arguement (sic) is invalid"
Wrong again :)
http://evolution.berkeley.edu...

Like I said before, Catholics are the only Christians that go with science (Big Bang, Evolution, etc.) Catholics are only a part of all the thousands of Christian sects.

Also, just because a church doesn't receive grants from the government, doesn't mean there's a "major separation between Church and state". I already told you how "In god we trust" is on our money and "Under God" is in our pledge. The entire list of how church invades State is in Round 2. Go back and read it.

"Also your final argument states "34% of citizens actually support us becoming a Theocracy" got any proof? I still want to see this article."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...


"Also, Iran is ran by an Islamic Theocracy. The Title of this debate is concerning a "Christian Theocracy" so using Iran as a comparison is invalid."

I used it to show that a country can, indeed, become a true Theocracy. If it's possible in Iran, it's possible here.


TheMaster_Debator

Con

"That's Catholic. The rest of the Christians go by the Bible, which says god created the world in 7 days."
Well, just so you know my dad isn't Catholic. He is Lutheran. You know he doesn't believe the world was created in 7 days. I have a friend who is Jewish, he doesn't believe the world was created in 7 days.

Also, Obama is considered Agnostic/non-religious since he
a. never attends church
b. he even admitted that he doesn't know if God exists or not.
c. Yes it was wrong for me to call him atheist, but he is not Christian. He is agnostic if anything.

Again, you are taught in Catholic School. Look what other Christians say about being gay:
http://www.godhatesfags.com......

First of all, like I said before my dad is Lutheran, and my friend is Jewish. In both religions they are taught to respect gays. Your arguement is invalid. You seem to be saying that Catholics are fine, but the rest of Christians are not. I strongly disagree. No Christians are being taught to disrespect and hate gays. What we as Christians are taught is to love one another, love your neighbors, and remember that the Holy Spirit is in each and everyone of us. As Christians we disrespect no one (Although, sometimes we do sin, and in the past our leaders have too, no one is perfect)

My next point in that article is that those who were interviews were asked if they wanted Christianity to become the official state religion, not if they wanted a theocracy. Ask around the question: "Do you want America to quit being a democracy and become a theocracy?" I asked around this question at my school, since this debate is for one of my classes :D.
21 of my fellow Christian friends responded "No" to that question. Even my religion teacher responded "No" I even asked my priest. Do you know what he said? "No." Not one person responded "Yes" You are obviously making up this theocracy thing to make people hate on us Christians, but it is not working. We as Christians believe in democracy. Pope John Paul II went to Poland where he inspired people to be free from Soviet rule. Soon they formed a democracy. Don't you see? Even our pope wants democracy!

Thanks for the debate, I had lots of fun, and may God bless!
Debate Round No. 3
28 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
US is lucky Mitt Romney did not get into the presidency.
Because Mormons seek world domination and will stop at nothing to use Ecclesiastical Power over Romney to control him like a puppet, as they have done in many cases in the past.

So it would not be Romney as president, it would be the Latter Day Saints making his decisions.
Then the US would know what a Theocracy feels like.
Just ask Shaun McCraney, ex LDS member, now Christian.
Posted by nonprophet 3 years ago
nonprophet
One is more than none like he claimed.
Posted by liam12 3 years ago
liam12
I can see why there is no voting, you know your going to lose :P TheMaster_Debator clearly wins, you couldn't supply more evidence than ONE church. Just ONE.
Posted by nonprophet 3 years ago
nonprophet
"even though he doesn't name these religions"
LOL Um..."West Boro baptist church"

BTW: There is no voting on my debates.
Posted by liam12 3 years ago
liam12
I can vote soon, I just got a phone today. Nonprophet keeps telling lies "Well I am not talking about Catholics, they are fine, I am talking about other Christian religions (even though he doesn't name these religions)"

Nonprophets arguments are invalid, almost all of them are.
Posted by nonprophet 3 years ago
nonprophet
"The West Boro baptist church is teaching it the wrong way." I agree. That doesn't mean "Christians are not taught to hate gays.". Many are.
Posted by liam12 3 years ago
liam12
The West Boro baptist church is teaching it the wrong way. A small minority of Christians hate gays. Even some atheists hate gays so using gay hatred is invalid. By the way the debate is over. If you were unhappy with the way you preformed, start another debate :)
Posted by nonprophet 3 years ago
nonprophet
"Christians are not taught to hate gays."
"Since 1955, WBC has taken forth the precious from the vile, and so is as the mouth of God (Jer. 15:19). In 1991, WBC began conducting peaceful demonstrations opposing the f@g lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth." -Westboro Baptist Church
Posted by nonprophet 3 years ago
nonprophet
"I said "God bless" because I wanted to." offend me. You know damn well I'm an atheist, but you went and said it anyway (because you WANTED TO), knowing I don't subscribe to that nonsense. Very offensive.
Posted by nonprophet 3 years ago
nonprophet
Godhatesfags.com is owned by the Westboro Baptist Church. That's exactly what they teach to Christians.

When something is "official by the state" it means we are under obligation by law.
For example, if English was the official State Language, all official business would be done in English, even though other languages exist.
If Christianity was the official State Religion all official business would follow Christian rules and laws even though other religions may exist. That's a THEOCRACY.

"I wanted to express that politicians say it because they want to" Proof of the lack of separation between Church and State.

"in no way intended to offend you." LOL...that's like saying "May may the flying spaghetti Monster boil for your sins" knowing you don't believe that. Of course it's offensive.
No votes have been placed for this debate.