The Instigator
yuiru
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points
The Contender
Controverter
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

We need/It is beneficial to have: More logic and reasoning taught in schools worldwide!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
yuiru
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/27/2013 Category: Education
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,483 times Debate No: 31774
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

yuiru

Pro

Pro will be arguing We need/It is beneficial to have: More logic and reasoning taught in schools worldwide!

Con will be arguing, We don't need/It is not beneficial to have: More logic and reasoning taught in schools worldwide!

Logic and reasoning:

"1a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning"

Straight copy pasted from
http://www.merriam-webster.com...


"[...]refers to both the study of modes of reasoning (which are valid, and which are fallacious)[2][3] and the use of valid reasoning. In the latter sense, logic is used in most intellectual activities, including philosophy and science, but in the first sense, is primarily studied in the disciplines of philosophy, mathematics, semantics, and computer science. It examines general forms thatarguments may take. In mathematics, it is the study of valid inferences within some formal language.[4] Logic is also studied in argumentation theory.[5]"

Straight copy pasted from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

I feel those are adequate definitions.

Who:

K-12 kids would learn

What:

Logic and reasoning

Where:

Worldwide, including poor countries and dictatorships will be forced to teach it.

When:

*Before it's too late!

Why:

Useful skills, critical thinking, and promote a smarter/better society.



So you choose to debate here, the rules are:

You must address me as The Pro, not Yuiru.

No copy pasta arguments, you must cite sources used.

General good conduct.





Controverter

Con

I assume you are suggesting that lesson time that could be spent on a worthwhile subject should instead be spent teaching logic and reasoning in and of itself as a raw subject.

I disagree and accept this challenge.
Debate Round No. 1
yuiru

Pro

I appreciate con's acceptance!

Why it is important and beneficial to have more logic and reasoning taught in schools-

1. Removes and greatly weakens the barriers to logical thinking.

*1Which are:
  • lack of relevant background information
  • poor reading skills
  • poor listening skills
  • prejudice
  • superstition
  • relativistic thinking
  • distrust in reason
  • short term thinking
  • selective perception
  • selective memory
  • unwarranted assumptions
  • stereotyping
  • narrow-mindedness
  • close-mindedness



2. Is useful and relevant to everyday life and other school subjects.

Language Arts - Good logic and reasoning skills improves reading, writing, and literature analysis.

Mathematics - Is an extension of logic

Global studies - Logic and reasoning is very important when talking about world issues and analysing history

Science - Logic and reasoning deals with understanding why things are true and validity, so it comes without saying it is important for science education.

Health - Helps support logical choices for ones health.

Art - Art is best used logically then say for example, propaganda. Many aspects of art are logical as well, such as composing or coloring for a painting.

3. Learning proper logic and reasoning is useful for the rest of a child's education and entire life.

When you do not have understand logic and reasoning, your knowledge lacks understanding of truth. Logic and reasoning help you to have a basic understanding of truth and knowledge.

When logic is something children are not being taught to understand, their knowledge is only something they have heard and they do not understand why it is true. Competent understanding of logic is valuable to a learning mind and helps in reaching a good understanding and observations that are valid and sound.

-This is all why I would argue logic and reasoning is a worthwhile subject including in a raw state, where it is much more effective.

http://www.ascd.org...
http://www.amanet.org...
http://dspace.iup.edu...
*1-http://askville.amazon.com...
Controverter

Con

I am sad to see that many false claims have been made in the pro's opening argument.

It is clear that if reading skills, listening skills, prejudice, superstition, relativist thinking, distrust in reason, short-term thinking, selective perception, selective memory, unwarranted assumption, stereotyping and close/narrow-mindedness are all dependent on whether or not a person was raised in a school that taught logical reasoning as a subject, the entire human race would never have progressed to what it is today since this has never been an actual mainstream subject in itself in any standard school's syllabus. Yet, without having ever been taught this as a subject, it seems there are many of the human race who score well on all these factors and that is clear evidence against the teaching of logical reasoning being the basis of people's outlook on all these matters.

The next false claim is that if one isn't taught logical reasoning in and of itself they cannot grasp languages, mathematics, global studies, science, health or art. Firstly, health and art are nothing to do with logical reasoning and rather with impulsive urge to be fit and to express emotion respectively. Science, language, the humanities and mathematics use logical reasoning within themselves and this is in fact supportive of the reason not to bother teaching logical reasoning as a separate subject since it is interwoven within the syllabuses of al these subjects already.

Logic and reasoning are skills that are gained from day-today life of a child. It is already the basis of many subjects meaning that logic is already being indirectly taught through many subjects as it is.

In conclusion, there is absolutely no sufficient reason to give up the allocated teaching time of lessons for other subjects in exchange for a lesson of logic in and of itself.
Debate Round No. 2
yuiru

Pro

"I am sad to see that many false claims have been made in the pro's opening argument."

Enlighten me.

"It is clear that if reading skills, listening skills, prejudice, superstition, relativist thinking, distrust in reason, short-term thinking, selective perception, selective memory, unwarranted assumption, stereotyping and close/narrow-mindedness are all dependent on whether or not a person was raised in a school that taught logical reasoning as a subject,"

It seems that you may have grossly misunderstood what I was saying completely. It wasn't that people think like that all depending on whether or not they were raised in a school that taught logical reasoning, it was when people learn logical reasoning, since those are barriers to logical thinking, they are weakened (reduced) or removed. I am saying that teaching logical reasoning will decrease this type of thinking in students since they would have been informed. This doesn't mean a student can't figure it out without it being taught in schools or some people are more logical thinkers naturally.

"the entire human race would never have progressed to what it is today since this has never been an actual mainstream subject in itself in any standard school's syllabus. Yet, without having ever been taught this as a subject, it seems there are many of the human race who score well on all these factors and that is clear evidence against the teaching of logical reasoning being the basis of people's outlook on all these matters."

This is patently absurd, the human race would have still progressed. You don't have to be taught something in school to figure it out. Few schools teach architecture as a subject, yet we are surrounded by buildings. And besides that, dictatorships and large cults, which rely on a lack of logical thinking, are still able to be modern.

And looking into history, in the times of slavery where people were narrow-minded, stereotyping, and making unwarranted assumptions to the effect of enslaving an entire race, there was still progress. Guess what also? Logic and reasoning skills were not taught in schools.

"Logic and reasoning are skills that are gained from day-today life of a child."

No, it is actually discouraged by day to day life. The media tends to discourages it, parents will discourage, even teachers can and do discourage it. If it was meaningfully gained from day to day life, there wouldn't be irrational people.

"It is already the basis of many subjects meaning that logic is already being indirectly taught through many subjects as it is."

Reading and writing is also indirectly taught in other subjects, so is mathematics. Just because it is indirectly taught, doesn't mean it is meanignfully taught or that it shouldn't be taught as a subject. And it is very little even indirectly taught. Logical and reasoning is useful and may even be the basis for many subjects, but that doesn't mean the other subjects require it.

"In conclusion, there is absolutely no sufficient reason to give up the allocated teaching time of lessons for other subjects in exchange for a lesson of logic in and of itself."

Teaching logical reasoning is a very valid step to make. Time being given up is not the only solution! Time can be added, it doesn't have to be a daily class, some students will have different schedules depending if they have already taken the class or not, etc. Many schools are different and we can't just assume giving up classtime is the only possible way to add logic and reason, especially for all of them.
Controverter

Con

As a subject on its own, a waste of time and effort.

It's taught as an integrated part of all other subjects.

There is simply no need for it.
Debate Round No. 3
yuiru

Pro

"As a subject on its own, a waste of time and effort."

I would come to disagree. Logic and reasoning are very useful to society and the individual as it improves manner of thinking.
History teaches us that social injustices and crimes against humanity are not the product of a rational mind, but the product of ill thinking. Logic and reasoning besides being useful to the student is useful to society as a whole because it detracts from ill thinking as I had pointed out earlier.

"It's taught as an integrated part of all other subjects."

I feel I have pointed out previously that this argument is insuffienct.

"There is simply no need for it."

My opponent seems to be saying this over and over again, but that is it. My opponent is not arguing or making any attempt to rebuttall my previous arguments so I have nothing to offer here for them.

This is the last round and I thank my opponent for deciding to debate with me here as I like to challenge myself and ideas.

Thank you.
Controverter

Con

My opponent has conceded that they are ultimately wrong.

This has been a wonderful debate.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Misterscruffles 4 years ago
Misterscruffles
yuiruControverterTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Con responded with little more than a dismissive hand wave to pro's well thought out arguments.
Vote Placed by dragonb95 4 years ago
dragonb95
yuiruControverterTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Con barely had any arguments. Pro convinced me. Go logic!