We should allow illegal immigrants to stay
Debate Rounds (3)
1) "Illegal immigrants are blood sucking from America". Grammatical mistakes aside, this statement is a metaphor (I hope) and its meaning is null without rigorous explanation.
2) "They are on welfare".
If the illegal immigrants you are concerned with are primarily Hispanic, then this statement is null and void of argument. According to statisticbrain.com, only 15.7% of all Americans on welfare are Hispanic or Latin@ in origin. Even if every single one of these people was an illegal immigrant (which I'm sure is a gross overestimation), then the ratio of Illegals on Welfare to Citizens on Welfare would be 3 : 17, or nearly six times more Legal American citizens than illegal americans.
3) "They steal jobs". Or, they go out and get jobs while the white American citizen feels too entitled to work such terrible jobs. Jobs like construction and janitorial services and waste management are, in fact, terrible jobs! But immigrants are willing to work those terrible jobs, which is why they receive them.
4) "They kill our white race". According to statistics released by the FBI, 83% of homicides of white victims, were committed by white offenders. In fact, the percentage of white victims killed by Hispanic or other criminals is less that 3%! This statement is flat out wrong.
Now I will argue why I feel illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay in the US.
1) The US was founded by illegal immigrants. No one ever asked the Native American people for permission to live in North America, and in fact European settlers were responsible for a mass genocide of Native Americans. According to David Stannard, American historian and Professor of American Studies at the University of Hawaii, the European Settlers were responsible for the deaths of over 100 million Native Americans. We are all illegal immigrants.
2) "Liberty and Justice for All" does not mean "Liberty and Justice for native-born American citizens".
3) American culture will be positively influenced by the mixing of immigrant culture and what we have now.
4) Like I said before, immigrants are willing to work in jobs that entitled American citizens will not.
5) Let me list for you the names of some American immigrants: Wyclef Jean, Albert Einstein, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Aldous Huxley, Bruce Willis, and Bob Marley, to name a few.
Let me walk through your "argument".
1) "That is not true about 83% of whites killing each other"
"Among single-bias hate crime incidents in 2014, there were 3,227 victims of racially motivated hate crime.
62.7 percent were victims of crimes motivated by their offenders" anti-Black or African American bias.
22.7 percent were victims of anti-White bias."
"In 2014, race was reported for 5,192 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:
52.0 percent were White.
The ethnicity was reported for 975 known hate crime offenders. Of these:
47.6 percent were in the ethnic category Not Hispanic or Latino.
6.5 percent were Hispanic or Latino."
More white people kill than any other group, and white people die by violent hate crime less than black people. If anything, you could argue that black people are dying out - but neither of these statements are true. Your statement is a non-sequitur to the data, sourced from the FBI - do you accept the FBI as a trusted source?
2) "The birth rate of whites is lower than Mexicans and others like Africans."
This statement is, surprisingly, true. True of Mexicans and Africans, not of American-Mexican and American-African citizens. If you will look at this image:
You will see your birth rates spring up. Notice how birth rates in Mexico and African countries are higher than the US, Australia, and Europe. Why could this be? Perhaps, is it because that many African countries are still developing, third-world countries, with less access to sex-ed and birth control?
Yes. That is why.
3) "the jobs you listed used to be white hard working American jobs"
Again, astoundingly, you are correct. Times have changed. These jobs are disproportionately populated by immigrants and people of color because, again, they are /willing to work in those jobs/, and most white American citizens are not. The attitudes of individualism and entitlement plague the white upper middle class of America today, and therefore many white American citizens see themselves as above these jobs, and will not apply. They aim higher, thus, removing a large amount of white people from the hiring pool.
4) if you want to talk about overpopulation, let me list for you the causes of overpopulation:
- Declining mortality rate. People are living longer, therefore the amount of people on the planet on any given time is increasing. Even if the rate at which people were produced was perfectly constant, if those people lived longer, this would cause an increase in the amount of people living and still around. Declining mortality rate is caused by advances in medicine and technology, better health, diet, and atmosphere, and our increasing ability to produce and distribute food and clean water.
- Overcoming poverty. As we progress towards globalization, programs and causes to fight poverty have increased exponentially. The money and work we put in to benefit the poor, and developing countries, also contributes to the declining mortality rate among the impoverished, which generates a net increase in living humans.
-Technological Advancement in Fertility Treatment. With latest technological advancement and more discoveries in medical science, it has become possible for couple who are unable to conceive to undergo fertility treatment methods and have their own babies. Today there are effective medicines which can increases the chance of conception and lead to rise in birth rate. Moreover, due to modern techniques pregnancies today are far more safer.
- Not Immigration. This may seem counterintuitive, but Immigration does not actually generate a net increase in living humans. Rather, it causes an increase of population /density/. The amount of people on the planet stays the same when immigrants enter a new country, but that country is now slightly more crowded. So slightly, it's almost negligible.
With the US population as it is right now, there is enough land area in America for every single person to be given 7.5 acres of land. The population of the US could increase by 100 million and that number would only drop to 5.7 acres.
I would like to remind you that you have not invalidated the reasons I supplied, so my argument still stands. There is not a single good reason why immigrants should not be allowed to stay in the US. And, for my final comment, I would like to point you to this document:
It details how white people have actually come to view race and crime, and all the bias they carry with them.
1) "This is not real debate"
*glances up at corner of screen*
*the corner reads "Debate.org"*
Con, if you will not accept this as a valid debate, what will you accept? Do you want us to stand up on stage behind podiums and have this discussion? By asserting that this entire debate is not valid, you have /invalidated your entire argument/ and nothing would have been resolved.
I, for one, believe this debate /is/ valid and I will continue accordingly.
2)"Blacks and Hispanics or more likely to kill whites"
Since you did not accept the FBI as a trustworthy source, I'll point to this one instead; statistics on Homicide in the US, provided by the US Department of Justice - organized by race on page 11 and 12
"84% of White victims were killed by Whites from 1980 through 2008"
I would like to point you to figure 19, which clearly shows - while it is true that black criminals will commit homicide against white victims, than white criminals on black victims - both of these relations are dwarfed by the sheer amount of black on black and white on white violence, which run nearly concurrently.
I would like to point out that the DOJ does not collect data on Hispanic and Latin@ criminals, and instead includes them under White. But this is easily accounted for:
In 2013, 9.11% of US citizens reported their ethnicity as "mixed" or "some other race". If we assume that all of these people are Hispanic, (again, a gross overestimation), and if we assume the homicide rates are proportional to population, then that means only 7.56% of those White victims were killed by Hispanic criminals. Even if we assume that Hispanics kill Whites exactly as much as Blacks kill Whites (in other words, about 3 times as likely as white on Black homicide) this percentage only rises to 22% - still dwarfed by the sheer amount of White on White violence.
3) I would also just like to return to what you said previously, that blacks and Hispanics are more fertile than whites: these are the fertility rates of the ethnic groups of the US, by race.
"1.948 for White Americans (including White Hispanics) 1.791 for non-Hispanic Whites
1.972 for Black Americans (including Black Hispanics) 1.958 for non-Hispanic Blacks
1.404 for Native Americans (including Hispanics)
1.689 for Asian Americans (including Hispanics)
2.350 for Hispanics (of all racial groups)
(Note that ~95% of Hispanics are included as "white Hispanics" by CDC, which does not recognize the Census' "Some other race" category and counts people in that category as white"
ergo: White Hispanics count as whites, therefore white fertility is just as high as Hispanic and black fertility.
4) "The FBI works with the government so it's obviously gonna lie"
According to this source, "In FY 2010, there were over 2.8 million people employed by the federal government... Of that total: 65.4% were White,"
65% of the Federal workforce is white. Are you not trusting your own race? Which, I assume, would be important to you.
This source says that one in five members of Congress is a racial minority. One in five! That doesn't even specify /which/ minority yet, just that it's not white. That's 20% of the 114th Congress being Not-White. Do you trust Congress?
My point here is that there is a lot of white people working for the US government. Like, a lot. Nearly 1.8 million, according to my first source there. Why would the government - which is primarily white - lie in favor of racial minorities?
5) "look at your profile picture"
Ad hominem attack. Directed against the person rather than the position they occupy.
Not that you care, but my profile picture is from the lovely new video game Undertale by Toby Fox - the moral of which is that mercy is always the best route.
6)"Debates are not won with logic. Or I'd win every time"
I'm sorry, can you point to me the logic in your three arguments? I've searched as best I can, but I simply can't find it.
And furthermore, if debates are not won with logic, what exactly are they won with? Stirring up fears by making a controversial assertion and then raving about it while providing no evidence to support your claims? You know, Donald Trump should hire you for PR.
You still have not invalidated the reasons I gave in my first response for why illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay. This debate is over.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Peepette 10 months ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro throughout each round successfully rebuts Pros claims with statistical evidence and uses references to back her claims. Pro resorts to an ad hominem in R3 which gives conduct to Con.
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