The Instigator
Pastafarian
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
Danielle
Con (against)
Winning
31 Points

We should end Smoking

Do you like this debate?NoYes+7
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/10/2011 Category: Health
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,633 times Debate No: 14740
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (7)

 

Pastafarian

Pro

For a long time, people had varying views about whether or not to make smoking illegal. In 2000, in the United States, approximately 440,000 persons die of a cigarette smoking-attributable illness, resulting in 5.6 million years of potential life lost, $75 billion in direct medical costs, and $82 billion in lost productivity. Smoking should be illegal because its deadly and raises medical costs for everyone
Danielle

Con

The resolution says "we" should end smoking, implying that a group of individuals ought to make a decision for other individuals who do want to continue smoking.

Pro mentions that 440,000 people die as a direct or indirect result of smoking cigarettes annually. However there are approximately 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States annually [1] -- does that mean automobiles ought to be illegal? A lot of people die from obesity. Should sweets be illegal? Obviously we have a standard of freedom in this country and we allow people to make decisions for themselves regarding their own health and body. If it costs them their own life and money, that's their responsibility/ fault/ prerogative.

While my opponent mentions raising medical costs for everyone, that would not necessarily be so if we had a strictly private health insurance and medical system. If society wishes to employ socialized medicine, then they must live with the consequences of those who choose to smoke cigarettes or weigh 500 pounds or engage in other risky behavior impacting their costs.

[1] http://www.car-accidents.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Pastafarian

Pro

First of all thank you for accepting my argument

Con says that there are approximately 6.4 million auto accidents in the United States annually. Has Con looked how the auto accidents happened? Approximately 30% of California's auto accident's deaths are from drunk driving. Drunk driving is something all ready illegal, so I will not bother debating you about that.

Also how does smoking raise costs for everyone?
Smoking raises medical costs for everybody. "A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people a lifetime. [1]" Why does it cost more for healthy people? "The reason: The thin, healthy people lived much longer. [1]" Because of smoking, smokers and nonsmokers have to pay health care costs.

[1]http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Danielle

Con

Thanks, Pro.

Pro first notes that drunk driving is responsible for 30% of California's driving accidents, and drunk driving is already illegal. A few things: First, Pro provides no source for this statistic. Second, we have no reason to accept statistics from California alone randomly (?). Third, this has little relevance to my actual point. In the last round I made the argument that just because a lot of people die from car accidents doesn't mean cars should be illegal. Similarly just because people die from smoking related effects doesn't mean smoking should be illegal.

Perhaps I should give a few more analogies. For example, a lot of people are allergic to peanuts, don't know it and die upon ingestion. Should peanuts be illegal? A lot of people are obese. Should we criminalize junk food? Some people get violent when listening to certain music. Should we not allow particular types of music to be played? Quite obviously I advocate personal responsibility; I'm waiting for Pro to respond to that direct argument.

Next, Pro contends that thin and healthy people live longer than fat and unhealthy people (quite obviously) and thus smoking should be illegal since it's unhealthy. However Pro's own source completely NEGATES his point! The article he cites points out that since smokers die about 10 years earlier than non-smokers, their premature deaths provide a savings to Medicare, Social Security, private pensions and other programs.

Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings, and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net SAVINGS of 32 cents [1]! This means that people smoking is GOOD for the economy. Again Pro's very own source just completely destroyed his own contention. In fact Pro himself argued in my favor. He pointed out that costs for smokers were about $326,000 compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people. In other words, costs for healthy people were MORE.

Furthermore, the fact that cigarettes can be as expensive as up to $13 a pack [2] for a product that costs pennies to make proves that smokers are being taxed incredibly high as a 'punishment' for smoking. The fact that they are taxed for making what some deem a bad personal decision is abhorrent in the first place; however, considering the tax is so high it would - as the article suggests - actually be ripping off most of the smokers.

I'd also like to bring up a new argument: Pro never mentioned what exactly he wanted to be illegal to smoke. For instance, smoking crack is probably more dangerous than smoking pot. I'll assume he's referring to smoking ALL substances then, in which case I'd point out that people could easily eliminate the harms and dangers of smoking by smoking with a vaporizer.

By vaporizing, you don't consume the the chemicals that smokers inhale - toluene, benzene, carbon monoxide, etc. Because it doesn't involve combustion, it doesn't produce the unwanted combustion by-products that smoking does. Thus, cancer-causing agents are eliminated and smoking is much healthier. Vapor is also much cooler than smoke, and therefore less damaging to throat and lung tissue [3].

If the risks associated with smoking can be greatly reduced, and smokers also contribute positively to the economy, then why should we end smoking? That coupled with individual rights and freedoms ought to negate the resolution sufficiently.

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[2] http://globalgrind.com...
[3] http://www.articlesbase.com...
Debate Round No. 2
Pastafarian

Pro

Good job mate.. Thanks for tricking me
Danielle

Con

I'm confused, as I did not do anything to trick my opponent...?

Please extend all of my arguments.

Thanks for the opportunity to debate anyway, Pro, and good luck.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by TheSlenderMan 3 years ago
TheSlenderMan
Con states that Pro did not provide a source for his statistic when she did not provide one for hers. Also, smoking with a vaporizer isn't smoking. It's vaping. Not many people think there's a difference but there is (though, Con seemed to know the difference). Other than that, Con did a very good job.

Pro, you should think up better endings than, "thanks for tricking me." She didn't say all that to trick you...just to try to use rational against your claims. You didn't seem too prepared for this debate.
Posted by Q12 4 years ago
Q12
I think smoking should be banned... FOREVER because when you smoke the smoke enters your lungs and poisons it. Every time u smoke you lose ten minutes of your life. it even bothers other people when u smoke the smoke goes into the air and everyone smells it then they start coughing after that they get sick. Cigarrets are also drugs and when u take drugs u can hurt other people and you do hurt yourself even die.
And that is why you should NOT smoke... EVER
Posted by renucemi000 5 years ago
renucemi000
Smoking has been linked to 11 forms of cancer, including cancer of the esophagus, mouth, pancreas, bladder, and kidney. According to recent studies, smokers are 26 times more likely to die of lung cancer than non-smokers. Emphysema is a chronic disease that destroys parts of the lungs and results in shortness of breath, hyperventilation, and asthma-like attacks. Smokers often suffer from bad breath, yellowing teeth and nails, and early wrinkles around the mouth. We should end smoking because of the higher risk diseases it causes.
Posted by i8JoMomma 5 years ago
i8JoMomma
we should smoke more weed instead
Posted by little-balletstar 5 years ago
little-balletstar
people die all the time from smoke i totally agree pastafarian
Posted by MsFuhri 5 years ago
MsFuhri
Pastafarian, you are really bombing on this one... while I smoke my cigarette, I am contributing to Schip and other programs that help children get the health care they need that they would otherwise not be eligible or able to get. In fact, knowing how much I spend a month, I am pretty sure I help at least a few kids get their health care needs met. It's no secret cigarette smoking is a cash cow for taxes, it's a pipe dream to think the government is really looking at the health of the people rather than the revenue it gets from them (you're young and innocent of the ways of the world still, yes?)*puff... It would be a further tax burden on people to add ANOTHER enforcement agency of inefficiency on the public payroll....*puff *puff
Posted by Punch 6 years ago
Punch
I am so sick and tired of being told what to do. It is a total and complete lie that smokers cost society more than non-smokers. I completely agree that smokers are the ones being ripped off.
Posted by Pastafarian 6 years ago
Pastafarian
My last round I accidently wrote that-- because I had another debate in which CON tricked me....

sorry
Posted by Pastafarian 6 years ago
Pastafarian
Oh Crap wrong argUment
Posted by Punch 6 years ago
Punch
It seems Pro doesn't read his own support prior to posting it. The Huffington article he cites, includes the following quote. "We were actually quite surprised by the finding because we were pretty sure that smokers were getting cross-subsidized by everybody else," said Manning, who suspects the findings would be similar today. "But it was only when we put all the pieces together that we found it was pretty much a wash." I suspect that when you add up all of the taxes imposed on smokers today, the smokers are the ones getting ripped off by the rest of society. What ever happened to freedom of the individual?
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by iholland95 4 years ago
iholland95
PastafarianDanielleTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: We should definitely end smoking I watch so many people smoke and I don't think they really realize that they'll die early if they keep it up so I am with Pro on this ons
Vote Placed by Punch 6 years ago
Punch
PastafarianDanielleTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: I am so sick and tired of being told what to do. It is a total and complete lie that smokers cost society more than non-smokers. I completely agree that smokers are the ones being ripped off.
Vote Placed by Sniperjake1994 6 years ago
Sniperjake1994
PastafarianDanielleTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro failed to rebuttal in R3
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
PastafarianDanielleTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
PastafarianDanielleTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: See: ROUND 3 (and 2).
Vote Placed by eball45 6 years ago
eball45
PastafarianDanielleTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: better
Vote Placed by Logos 6 years ago
Logos
PastafarianDanielleTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07