The Instigator
august55433
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points
The Contender
Artemis4
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

We should keep out illegal immagrants and secure our border

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
august55433
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/16/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,414 times Debate No: 63340
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

august55433

Pro

I believe that illegal immigrants should be kept out of our country. They hurt our economy and are an overall bad thing for us. I know that they are just trying to get a better life, but what makes them better then the people that are doing the same thing, except that they are waiting in line? The illegal immigrants just cheat and budge ahead of everyone. They don't pay taxes, and they get to be on our welfare system. This overpowers the balance between people who pay taxes, and people who don't. If you have more people not paying takes then people who do, then those people who do, get overwhelmed with supporting those who don't pay. I believe that illegal immigrants are bad for our country and we should try harder to keep them out. The argument for helping them will be all about emotions and feelings, but you cant run the world on emotions. Even if they are trying to find a better life, they need to wait in line, like everyone else, instead of having us literally pay the price.
Artemis4

Con

Hmm, really? That's interesting, given merely 53% of Americans pay taxes and I might be wrong (But I doubt it), but 53% of America's population is not made up of immigrants.. The fact that they are eager to work with crops and clean just about everything allows us to buy cheaper food and better services, affording us even more money to invest. It"s not the immigrants, but the taxes, spending and entitlements ( whichmost immigrants don"t receive) that have drained the economy dry. Also, some the ones that want to come here to better themselves do in fact pay taxes. You complain that you'll have to "pay the price" but as I said, They do pay taxes, and the people who you have to support are people who find temselves in jail, people who are on social security (Like food stamps and such, but statistically, immigrants are not the people who most need/use these aids), health care, and national defense. The people who are waiting in line, will be in that line from 7-10 years, to do things "legally' and have a very low chance of actualy getting citizenship. While, crossing the boarder without permission is just a misdemeanor, and once they have crossed, they do not wish to go back to their respective country of origin, so they pretty much follow the law.
Debate Round No. 1
august55433

Pro

That's interesting, because according to the center of immigration studies, 71% of illegal immigrants are on welfare. That means that these people come in undocumented, and take our money. Yes, they work for less money, but that means they they would more likely get hired for a job (illegally because they are illegal and its below the minimum wage) which takes those jobs away from actual Americans. People that were born here and are legal citizens. You know who else it takes jobs away from? Those people who waited in line for a long time, so they could actually become a real citizen of the United States. They are not here and looking for jobs, but its harder because people that bypassed them illegally, took those jobs from them, and their not even legal! Back to your point about "the people you would need to support are those in jail." Yes, we do half to support them, thank you for bringing that up. 29% of the entire U.S. prison population is made up of illegal immigrants according to the The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), in an article entitled "Criminal Aliens" on its website (accessed July 10, 2010). Yes, 29%. It costs so much money to support an inmate. On average it costs about $168,000 a year to house an inmate according to The California State Prisons Association. If there is roughly 70,000 illegal inmates, that's around 11.5 billion dollars a year. Really? Just in the category of prison inmates, we lose 11.5 billion dollars a year from illegal immigrants. Plus the 71% on welfare. But your right, some immigrants do pay taxes. About 50% of them do. But you know what's funny? Based on estimates compiled by the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), the Immigration Policy Center reported that there was $11.2 billion in taxes paid by illegal immigrants in 2010 . So even if you take all the money we get from the illegal immigrants, its still less than the costs of prison inmates. Then you add welfare(It is estimated that states spend between 11 billion to 22 billion dollars on welfare for illegal aliens every year ), and the education system (It is estimated that 12 billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary education for illegal immigrants), and the welfare system (Research reveals that 2.5 billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for people who have immigrated to the U.S. unlawfully). All in all, we spend $338.3 on illegal immigrants. Ok, just to make you feel better, I will subtract the 11.2 billion that they pay in taxes, so its really $327.1 billion that we spend. That's 2.5% of our entire national debt! We could be using that money to stimulate the economy! Lets just let the people who play by the rules in here, and not the ones who cheat to get ahead.
Artemis4

Con

An illegal immigrant will contribute $80,000 more to the government than he consumes in services. The government is really the one whose making money. 2% of Mexican immigrants have ever used welfare or social security and only 3% have ever used food stamps. In comparison, 84% pay income tax and none of them file a return. How are illegals causing high unemployment if they can't even work with out papers or proof of Social security. They take the jobs that no one else wants. Also, you can't deport over 70 million people, it is impossible, even if you wanted to. Also, please tell me, you do not believe that the place that has a 16 trillion dollars in debt, will simply let $8.4 billion in sales taxes, $1.6 billion in property taxes, and $1.2 billion in personal income taxes walk away. okay, so let's say 2.5% of the debt is for caring for illegals. It's still less money than that owed by colleges, for example, the economic crisis has nothing to do with illegals, they contribute just like college debt, our debt to many countries and such. legalizing undocumented immigrant would add a cumulative $1.5 trillion to U.S. GDP over a decade. This occurs because legalized workers earn higher wages than undocumented workers, and they use those wages to buy things such as houses, cars, phones, and clothing. As more money flows through the U.S. economy, businesses grow to meet the demand for more goods and services, and more jobs and economic value are created. tax benefits alone from legalization would be between $4.5 billion and $5.4 billion in the first three years.passing the DREAM Act (The act that woud allow aliens to attend college and get jobs and stuff) would add $329 billion to the U.S. economy by 2030. The Dream Act provides a double boost to the economy: First, "dreamers" will be able to work legally (generally at higher wages), and second, because of the requirements to complete high school and some college or military service, they will have more education and training, which translates into better and higher-paying jobs. All of these extra wages circulate through the economy, supporting new job creation for the native born as well. A large body of literature illustrates that naturalized citizens are more economically beneficial than even legal permanent residents. naturalized citizens earn between 8 percent and 11 percent higher wages after naturalization. an analysis of the 2012 March Current Population Survey data also indicates that immigrants who receive Social Security get less in benefits than native-born recipients.
Debate Round No. 2
august55433

Pro

Where are you getting your facts? I gave you the sources of my information, and they were reliable. You are just spurting out random numbers. So ill just pick apart your made up numbers with some cold hard backed up facts.

For example, you said "84% pay income tax and none of them file a return." Really? Where did you hear that? 84% pay income taxes? According to the Federation For American Immigration, most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.

You said "An illegal immigrant will contribute $80,000 more to the government than he consumes in services. The government is really the one whose making money." At first i thought you were joking. What source would tell you that we MAKE money on illegal immigration? According to the Federation For American Immigration, Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. With many state budgets in deficit, policymakers have an obligation to look for ways to reduce the fiscal burden of illegal migration. California, facing a budget deficit of $14.4 billion in 2010-2011, is hit with an estimated $21.8 billion in annual expenditures on illegal aliens.Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens.

You also said "2% of Mexican immigrants have ever used welfare or social security and only 3% have ever used food stamps." I don't know where you got that ridiculous number that only 2% of these immigrants use welfare or social security. Census Bureau data reveals that most U.S. families headed by illegal immigrants use taxpayer-funded welfare programs. According to the Center Of Immigration Studies, In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), 57 percent of households headed by an illegal immigrant with children, used at least one welfare program. Compared to 39 percent for native households with children.

You asked me "please tell me, you do not believe that the place that has a 16 trillion dollars in debt, will simply let $8.4 billion in sales taxes, $1.6 billion in property taxes, and $1.2 billion in personal income taxes walk away" Yes, you know why? If you add up all the money that they bring in. Like i said before, its about $11.2 billion dollars. That nothing compared to the overall cost it takes to have them here which is about $338.5 billion a year.
Yes, it looks good saying it would add $1.5 trillion to our GDP in a decade. But thats just it, it would take a decade. You know how much we could save in a decade without them? $3.5 trillion dollars. Thats almost twice the size of your number
Artemis4

Con

Artemis4 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
august55433

Pro

As you can see, my opponent has fore-fitted this round.
Artemis4

Con

Artemis4 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
I could close the border in a couple of months. Just erect two 8 foot fences 100 yards apart, and mine in between them.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
august55433Artemis4Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by dancampbell869 2 years ago
dancampbell869
august55433Artemis4Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Con is literally retarded. How far up your ass did you have to reach to find some of those numbers? Good job Pro, I completely agree with you. Why should we support people who aren't even legally here? The lack of common sense in the world is sad, led by people like Con.