The Instigator
rissarissaroo
Pro (for)
The Contender
WinBoat
Con (against)

We should not stop people from committing suicide.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/14/2017 Category: Society
Updated: 1 week ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 155 times Debate No: 105040
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

rissarissaroo

Pro

From a scientific standpoint, the main reason we should not try and stop people from committing suicide, is because mental illnesses are often hereditary. The ultimate goal for all animals, (humans included) is reproduction. So, if a human with mental illness succeeds as a human being, and they reproduce, then that offspring is weaker, because of the mental illness. Suicide is the closest thing humans have to natural selection. If someone has a chemical imbalance, they have an imperfect brain, and are not fit to be with the rest of society. I am not sating everyone with a mental illness should be killed, I am saying that they should not be allowed to reproduce, and pass on their toxic genes. A very effective way of controlling the population of people with mental illnesses, is to let them take care of themselves.
WinBoat

Con

Hello. I will be against the act suicide, and will be arguing that it should be prevented.

While suicide can't always be prevented. Depression can. A lot of mental illnesses can be treated in lots of ways. Therapy, Lobotomy, medications, and feeling loved.

The ultimate goal for humans is NOT reproduction. Humans set out their own goals and individually are different from one another. One of the biggest goals is just happiness in itself.

I believe we are all interconnected in someway. Suicide does more harm than it does good. It causes pain within families and grief. It takes away potential of a person that could have been, maybe someone with a cure for cancer or the next great invention.
Quite simply, suicide is not needed, it never will be the answer for anything. Life has its ups and downs, you can't have sunshine within rain, you can't have joy without pain. You'll be happy, and some days you'll be sad maybe even for days.

Morally speaking on religious talk, suicide is a sin. (This is not saying god exists, but if there were a god, it best to take some consideration of the sins and commandments).

I think we gotta understand why people kill themselves first, obviously no one has killed themselves out of just doing it. Usually they are depressed 90% of the time. Depression can be solved. Mental illness is not something someone is born with, it's something that occurs after having a deep impact on someones life. Everyone has experienced depression. Some people need more help than others, and more often than not, almost always, those people who suicide and kill themselves have not gotten the help they needed.

Obviously you can't stop someone committing suicide, but it should be prevented. A big goal in life that isn't reproduction is to live as long as possible. Anyone considering suicide should attempt to get the help they need and understand that there is a better solution cause there is.

Suicide is also illegal in some parts of the world. Yes no one can stop someone from killing themselves, but doing so has actions that follow like properties and shares between family members, and debt, and just everything.

By law if suicide is illegal, then you shouldn't do it just like any other crime that is illegal and it should be prevented. Just another reason.

As for reproducing, everyone has that right to reproduce. The pro would have to continue on about this part of the argument and seriously provide a answer to that problem he brought up.

I will hold rest of my thoughts and arguments for the next rounds.
Debate Round No. 1
rissarissaroo

Pro

I am not speaking on this from a moralistic standpoint. You are not correct, when saying that the goal is not reproduction. Scientifically, it is. Yes, individuals have goals that they set up for themselves. I never said that they don't. But, scientifically, and factually, the ultimate goal for every species, is reproduction.

I also did not say that they don't have the right to reproduce, only that they shouldn't, because it will pass on the genes, causing further suffering. If the parent were to have commit suicide, like they wanted to, then the offspring would not be suffering.

You say that people are not born with mental illness, but that is not true. That is why many doctors ask if there is a history of mental illness in a family before specific types of treatment, and to help with diagnostics. Mental illnesses are hereditary. Yes, they can be the result of something. I myself, have PTSD. Might I add, from a failed suicide attempt that ended up taking someone else's life.

I am doing a public service by not passing on my imperfect genes.

From a moralistic standpoint, I still stand with my belief. Why would you want to force someone to live a life that they don't want? Is someone with a chronic mental illness not suffering?

Yes, there are medications and treatments. But, medications are not a cure-all, and seldom, have people reported recovery after the use of medication.

Some people can "get better".
Others, and dare I say, most, cannot, and will not. Death would be release for those people. If someone with suicidal thoughts has the urge to seek "help", and not act on the thoughts, then all be it. That is their choice. But you cannot force a person that does not have a will to live, to live.

I did not say, and will not ever say that suicide should ever be enforced. Suicide is a choice. And what do we do to people who want to commit suicide? We put them in hospitals and keep them locked up, until we feel they aren't "at risk" any longer.

But what does that do? It causes distress to the person, and it forces unwanted treatment. Why do we not allow these people to be rid of something that is rightfully theirs to take? Because of "potential"?

Forgive me, but I think that is utterly ridiculous to force someones' suffering because society may, or may not (selfishly) benefit from that person living.

Society has no clue whether or not that person being forced to live is a good thing. But that person, does know that they do not want to suffer.
WinBoat

Con

My opponent fails to realize that suicide is not the answer to mental illness, or will never be the best answer. My opponent fails to realize that living and finding a solution other than suicide is the better choice.

As I have said (I don't think my opponent has rebutted against this) most suicides are brought on by depression. Most. Depression can be solved. Again, a lobotomy is a option, but that is extremely small, and no one knows what it is, or does. It was used for people with mental issues who were unstable, and very aggressive to calm them down. It has severe outcomes often than not, but it is an option. Although no one would consider it, but talking to someone, a change of life, going to classes, and so many other ways would be a better option, but again a lot of ways to get rid of depression which again, I stress this, is the biggest reason why people kill themselves in suicide.

My opponent said this and I quote. "Some people can "get better". Others, and dare I say, most, cannot,". My opponent is clearly in the wrong here. MOST CAN AND WILL GET BETTER. The problem is, social media focuses on the negatives on everything. Suicide cases get reported all the time. Want to know something that doesn't get reported all the time? I'll tell you. People improving from depression through whatever means they use to combat it. There are MANY more people who get through their depression than ones who end their lives. If someone isn't mentally challenged, they can too more than likely pull through their depression.

There are many ideas of why people kill themselves, and are unable to make it through these severe depressions. I'll do my best to find a link and comparison here for you guys. A comparison linking getting of depression vs stopping smoking, or quit drinking. A lot of people can't stop smoking or can't quit drinking cause they have it in their heads they cant. It's like people who are depressed, they have it in their heads that life will never get better for them, suicide is the only way. It's simply just not logical. This sorta what mental illness is in a nut shell, or at least a form of it.

People are used to being method actors, someone who is so good at their role, they actually start believing they are that person they are acting and go beyond just the acting but live their life that way. Call me crazy, but people who can't snap out of their suicidal thoughts, or stop doing drugs are method actors. They have played their role so far into it, they have lost who they were before the depression came, before they started doing drugs. (Now lets just focus on depression since you guys know what I'm talking about).

People are sheep in general, they are followers, many do not think outside the box, but the door is there, it will always be there. People with depression (yes im going to talk about depression cause it's the biggest leader in why people suicide). People with depression are convincing themselves "this is it, I can't go any longer". It's like people who think they are sick when they really aren't. It's in your head. You choose to believe that.

As I said in my previous round.A lot of people who suicide do not get the help they need. It's well known. It's like those people who go and do mass murders. Well, people knew he was shooting guns and acting crazy but they never called the cops or anything did they? It's the same exact thing. People don't get help. People are also oblivious to anything. People with depression are stuck in depression cause they don't know any better. They can't see the light at the end of the tunnel cause their eyes are closed.

So I'm saying depression can be solved, it can be prevented in MORE people than it is. I'm saying if we fix depression, then suicide numbers will drop down to an extreme all time low and it would be very rare. Will this ever happen? Probably not. But can it? Yes, but probably not. People are careless, greedy, selfish to help others. It's going to get that way more as we progress in the future.

I quote my opponent again on reproduction.
"I am saying that they should not be allowed to reproduce, and pass on their toxic genes. A very effective way of controlling the population of people with mental illnesses, is to let them take care of themselves."

And I said they DO HAVE THE RIGHT to reproduce, yes I am aware you are saying they shouldn't but this entire argument from you can be thrown out the window because you cannot beat my argument when I said they do have the rights to reproduce.

The goal of life is not reproduction. There is no official ruling. Again you are just making this up. Enlighten us and show us a confirmed official ruling that the goal of life is reproduction. You cannot.

There are only a few suicide cases I would only agree with. For example people who have bad health problems and have this pain and are too poor to get treatment and decide to suicide kill themselves. I seen stories where people have had doctors kill them cause of pain.

However, that is just a small itty bitty portion, most people again kill themselves over depression.

So if that is the biggest cause which it still is, then we should not let people kill themselves, cause we know better, anyone who doesn't have a mental illness knows better. You just admitted you have had a PSTD in your argument, so clearly I can see why you are on the pro side because you still suffer from the PSTD, and why? Because you simply choose to, whether you believe it not. You refuse and have convinced yourself, THIS IS IT, THIS IS WHO I AM. But it is NOT. You are more than what you think you are. Everyone is, except they choose to accept who they think they are, and that can be brought on by a social construct problem cause people haven't learned to love each other, probably never will due to gangster rap music, and all these violent movies, games, bad upbringing, or whatever the hell it may be.

If there is one thing I learned no matter how sad I get myself at times. It is never let yourself go, never lose yourself man.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by AdrianSena 1 week ago
AdrianSena
I strongly agree with this. Never have i ever thought of this, and i have to say... this is dark, and a lot of society's morals will go against this. But i must say this idea (theoretically) makes sense. Teens and even adults with chemical imbalances are so depressed and ill. No one on Earth would want to live life this way. With this "natural selection" process... these people will solving the problem, and be saving other people from having these types of illnesses. Yes there are treatments for these conditions, but no cure. We are not solving nor helping this at all. Only prolonging these terrible conditions by allowing the chance for such illnesses to be passed on and on. But this is only one of the big little problems we face in today's day in age... I use the term "big little" simply because this idea or solution rather, might never be enforced. We never know, it might in the future. but with today's morals and believes. I have to say i doubt this will fall into affect anytime soon. If anyone reads this far thank you, and have a good life.
Posted by Nd2400 1 week ago
Nd2400
No we shouldn't... If they want to kill themselves and only themselves then who are we to stop them....
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