The Instigator
Harlan
Pro (for)
Winning
16 Points
The Contender
Semper-Fi
Con (against)
Losing
15 Points

We should not try to ban flag burning.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/29/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,428 times Debate No: 31
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (10)

 

Harlan

Pro

To ban flag burning would be to deny our first amendment rights. It is a way to express our opinion. The support for a law banning flag burning does not come from any sort of idealism for public safety. It comes from blind, slave-like, obsessive patriotism.

To deny our first amendment right would make many people, such as myself, very indignant. It would actually hurt public safety.

Personally, I think that the Constitution should represent America more than a piece of cloth (often made in china, I should note).
Semper-Fi

Con

Yes, the Constitution should represent our country, but the reason that the american flag is so important, is because it was our symbol of independence from the british, and if you're burning the american flag, you're technically burning your independence.
Debate Round No. 1
Harlan

Pro

I do not think that we are "burning" our independence, when we set a piece of cloth with a certain pattern of dye on it aflame. I think we are practicing our rights.

You must realize that that is the reason why we separated from Great Britain:
To have rights such as the right to freedom of speech.

You may or may not know that in the time of the revolutionary war, colonists DID indeed burn British flags. What would our founding fathers say if they heard that we would use the revolution as justification to take away our most sacred rights? To ban flag burning is incredibly Un-American.

To truly "burn" your freedom would be to not burn a flag because of a law. To burn a flag because you have a strong opinion against your government, would be to practice your freedoms as a citizen of this great nation, America.

I think that if nothing, such a bill would encourage flag-burning. People would be very rebellious, if such an unjust law was to be passed.
Semper-Fi

Con

Are you on the debate team at your school or something? Maybe I'm jsut not too good at this...

Well, anyway, that's completley off topic.
Our freedom of speech has, somehow, always been limited to certain things. In such places as school, they can limit what you can and can't say, and isn't that restricting our freedom of speech? If it's restricted some of the time, then why not at all, of just restrict it all the time?
Debate Round No. 2
Harlan

Pro

Unfortunately my school doesn't have a debate team to my knowledge.

Your previous post seemed to be just the type of logic that murders democracy. One minute we restrict it just a little, than a little more, and then more, until finally we have a centralized government. Things such as the patriot act and this flag burning issue are the things that move the steps forward.

But another thing we must consider is this really necessary? If there was an eminent danger from people burning flags, I might give in to idealism. I would like to present a rather surprising fact: in the entire year of 2004, the year that is most known for the controversial election which angered many, there were only 2 reported incidents of flag-burning. The entire year.

The reasons that there are certain limitations to freedom of speech are sometimes justified and sometimes not. The general rule of thumb seems to be that it has to create an immediate danger to society; to provoke people to the point of violence.

Right now, we are debating. We are disagreeing. We both passionately disagree with each other about this hypothetical law. Doesn't that prove that the law itself would create more controversy and disagreement than an occasional burning of a flag?
Semper-Fi

Con

Semper-Fi forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
"We should not try to ban flag burning"

Keyword: "we"

Of course the people are government.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
Exactly.

I am trying to discourage people from banning flag-burning. I know that the people are government (though not always). That is why I am expressing my opinion here.
Posted by easy2know 9 years ago
easy2know
Harlan your appreciation will be accepted when you realize "we" are the government, we have complete control on who we let represent us. I tried telling you by defining a democracy, it seems the only different view is your division of the two. Like a company or any business that succeeds usually it consists of unity which in effect will bring symmetry and consistency like a fine watch..!

Yes I'm quite aware of the "SYMBOLICAl" message by the burning of our flag. I just wonder if Betsy Ross knew her science of developing and representing logical principles by means of a formalized system consisting of primitive symbols, combinations of these symbols, axioms, and rules of inference would cause so much strife..?

So Harlan don't worry before I'd let the people "we" elected take my freedoms away I would throw all their tea in the harbor..and I would send all the number plates from New Hampshire to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, DC

P.S.Glad to hear you wouldn't:o)
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
Allow me to continue:

I appreciate that you fought so that I could remain "free", but I can see that we have two very different views on what it means to be "free". I would think that you, who fought to protect this nation would be appaled to learn that the values you fought to preserve, were taken away by our own government.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
easy2know, I dont burn flags. Did you think I did; it seemed like you implied such
"you will adapt to a new way of expressing yourself without hurting others"

"you don't have to move"

"if you really respect what I said..don't burn the flag"

I dont burn flags. I have never set an American flag aflame. I love the values of this nation. I rejoice to the knowledge that people can here, in america, burn american flags without being punished. Is that not beautiful? If I was ever to defend this country, it would be to protect our values such as the freedom of speech.

The burning of a flag is nothing more than the burning of a cloth; it only SYMBOLICALLY burns america. Removing long-held, sacred reights provided by the very structure of our nation, the constitution, would be to TRULY hurt america. In my opinion, that would be alot more damaging than the burning of a few flags. Flag burning is a form of symbolic speech. I appreciate that you fought so that I could remain "free",
Posted by easy2know 9 years ago
easy2know
Harlan..let me be a little more specific..especially on this day of recognizing our fallen. I "put my life on the line so "you" could remain free"

Always Faithful tried telling you this deed has no effect on your freedoms of speech..there are many other ways of getting attention, the desecration of our flag is just not one of them. You with no doubt relate the flag to our government, and to burn it you therefore protest some of the issues within..! Hummm...lets see democracy: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.

When other countries burn our flag does it not hurt our feelings,if we are to grow as a nation we can't let dissension like flag burning divide us as a people, maybe in time you will adapt to a new way of expressing yourself without hurting others.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
They "put thier life on the line so you could remain free" to protect american values, one of which would be the freedom of speech. To really disrespect thier efforts would be to remove this freedom. I am all for living "free"
Posted by easy2know 9 years ago
easy2know
Harlan..omg..don't have a little hissy fit..you don't have to move, but if you really respect what I said..don't burn the flag..even in protest..flag burning only will exasperate your cause. And so you know "why" their are many who fervently opposed to flag burning is because they have put their life on the line so you could live free..!! Remember we will all be forever students..peace my friend..:o)
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
"you seriously need to find another flag"

I respect what you are saying, and many people say this type of thing:

"If they don't like America then don't live here"

Moving between countries is a BIG thing. It's not like just some thing you do on impulse in a day. It is a huge project, that not every one can do. Restrictions such as family ties and business make it a huge life changing thing to move from here.

You seem to just think of it as "getting a new flag", as if they just go to the store and buy one. Moving to a different country is no small task.
Posted by easy2know 9 years ago
easy2know
First in my opinion any one who would burn our flag..(for any reason)...has little or no respect for what it represents..burning the stars..(states)..and strips..(red - courage, white - purity, blue - justice) is what many gave there lives for, it merely represents our nation, existing in us, belonging to us, if you degrade or burn our flag..(that represents "US")..you seriously need to find another flag..! Don't think of our great flag as government issue..it represents all our glory for those who gave it "all" for you and me..!!
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Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 3 years ago
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HarlanSemper-FiTied
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